DC Studios' SUPERMAN written & directed by James Gunn (2025) 3 3

[SkOw]

On 6/28/2023 at 12:37 PM, Axelrod said:

I don't know the guy actor, but when I saw the list of the "top 3' finalists I kind of pegged him as the most "Superman looking" of the bunch.  

Brosnahan is great.  I was worried that someone, somewhere, might have a freak out that she's older than the man (in her 30's *gasp*) and go young, young, young! (I mean, Cavil was "too old" at 40, and movies always want their ladies to be younger than their men). But I think genuine talent won out in that discussion. 

I also agree that going straight to Luthor as the main villain in this movie is a disappointment.  They should have taken a cue from Nolan's Batman films where he didn't use the Joker in the first one and picked two previously unused villains (Scarecrow and Ra's al Ghul) for the initial outing,  Then, when that worked, bam, hit them with the Joker for the sequel and made it one of the best movies ever.   

That's a great point.  Maybe Luthor will be a character but not THE villain in the movie.  Maybe it will build to that in the second one?   I'd love to see Brainiac as others have mentioned or Metallo.  

[SkOw]

On 6/28/2023 at 8:12 AM, theCapraAegagrus said:

I have an awesome idea for a Superman movie involving Brainiac. I have all of the basic concepts written. That being said, the ending would probably be received the same as Man of Steel, because some fans cannot fathom Superman making a difficult choice. For whatever reason, people want him to win without consequence.

I HATED Superman killing Zod in the first movie of a series.  I am okay with Superman having to do that but NOT in the first movie.  It is yet another example of the flawed structure of the SnyderVerse.  Death and Return of Superman BEFORE the justice league is even formed?

I agree about consquences and the ending, but what about all the people that lost their lives because he couldn't stop Zod sooner.  That feels like a pretty big consequence.  Had Superman defeated Zod and imprisoned him in the Phantom Zone there still would have been consquences and much of the early story with Bruce Wayne in Metropolis (which I thought was great) would still be intact in the movie.  Zach Snyder is a fantastic director, Watchmen and 300 were great, but he did not really understand the character.  If Superman kills in the first movie though, where do you go from there? IMO WB/Snyder (and yes I realize a lot of this was on WB and not Snyder specifically) should have done JL first and then do a movie later with the death of Superman thing where Superman has to kill doomsday (and uninentionally sacrifice himself) to save everyone and not repeat the tragedy of Zod's invasion.  People likely wouldn't have had the reaction they did if WB/Snyder would have had the character development and understanding of what Superman really stood for first, like in Man of Stell where he talks about the crest meaning hope, and THEN later see him have to do that.  Parts of Man of Steel were excellent but the ending?  It was bad storytelling and it cost them ..... deservedly so.  

[theCapraAegagrus]

On 6/28/2023 at 1:53 PM, SkOw said:

I HATED Superman killing Zod in the first movie of a series.  I am okay with Superman having to do that but NOT in the first movie.  It is yet another example of the flawed structure of the SnyderVerse.  Death and Return of Superman BEFORE the justice league is even formed?

I agree about consquences and the ending, but what about all the people that lost their lives because he couldn't stop Zod sooner.  That feels like a pretty big consequence.  Had Superman defeated Zod and imprisoned him in the Phantom Zone there still would have been consquences and much of the early story with Bruce Wayne in Metropolis (which I thought was great) would still be intact in the movie.  Zach Snyder is a fantastic director, Watchmen and 300 were great, but he did not really understand the character.  If Superman kills in the first movie though, where do you go from there? IMO WB/Snyder (and yes I realize a lot of this was on WB and not Snyder specifically) should have done JL first and then do a movie later with the death of Superman thing where Superman has to kill doomsday (and uninentionally sacrifice himself) to save everyone and not repeat the tragedy of Zod's invasion.  People likely wouldn't have had the reaction they did if WB/Snyder would have had the character development and understanding of what Superman really stood for first, like in Man of Stell where he talks about the crest meaning hope, and THEN later see him have to do that.  Parts of Man of Steel were excellent but the ending?  It was bad storytelling and it cost them ..... deservedly so.  

For what purpose can't Superman kill a non-human in his first movie...? That sounds like keeping something for the future just because one can. And just because one can does not mean one should.

This was tackled in the sequel. If you re-watch MoS until the Phantom Zone part, turn it off, pretend Zod was in there, and tell me that you'd be satisfied with that conclusion... I'll take your word for it. I'm quite sure you'd be disillusioned by that, though.

Christopher Nolan and David Goyer wrote Man of Steel. Not Zack Snyder. And all 3 of those guys know Superman.

[Bosco685]

On 6/28/2023 at 2:06 PM, theCapraAegagrus said:

For what purpose can't Superman kill a non-human in his first movie...? That sounds like keeping something for the future just because one can. And just because one can does not mean one should.

This was tackled in the sequel. If you re-watch MoS until the Phantom Zone part, turn it off, pretend Zod was in there, and tell me that you'd be satisfied with that conclusion... I'll take your word for it. I'm quite sure you'd be disillusioned by that, though.

Christopher Nolan and David Goyer wrote Man of Steel. Not Zack Snyder. And all 3 of those guys know Superman.

Again...

Unfortunately, people are going to grumble forever about "NOT MY SUPERMAN" points while proclaiming Gunn is going to fix everything.

[eastriver400]

 

Alexander Skarsgard is a great actor. He plays a really good sociopath.  Would love to see him as Lex Luthor.

 

 

 

Edited June 28, 2023 by eastriver400

[theCapraAegagrus]

Looks like you're only allowed to dislike The Flash on this site.

[Ken Aldred]

On 6/29/2023 at 11:47 AM, theCapraAegagrus said:

Looks like you're only allowed to dislike The Flash on this site.

It’s still early days on this one.

[theCapraAegagrus]

On 6/29/2023 at 6:53 AM, Ken Aldred said:

It’s still early days on this one.

I got banned from the topic. Only reason I can deduce is because I shared my enjoyment of the movie.

[Iconic1s]

On 6/28/2023 at 12:53 PM, SkOw said:

I HATED Superman killing Zod in the first movie of a series.  I am okay with Superman having to do that but NOT in the first movie.  It is yet another example of the flawed structure of the SnyderVerse.  Death and Return of Superman BEFORE the justice league is even formed?

I agree about consquences and the ending, but what about all the people that lost their lives because he couldn't stop Zod sooner.  That feels like a pretty big consequence.  Had Superman defeated Zod and imprisoned him in the Phantom Zone there still would have been consquences and much of the early story with Bruce Wayne in Metropolis (which I thought was great) would still be intact in the movie.  Zach Snyder is a fantastic director, Watchmen and 300 were great, but he did not really understand the character.  If Superman kills in the first movie though, where do you go from there? IMO WB/Snyder (and yes I realize a lot of this was on WB and not Snyder specifically) should have done JL first and then do a movie later with the death of Superman thing where Superman has to kill doomsday (and uninentionally sacrifice himself) to save everyone and not repeat the tragedy of Zod's invasion.  People likely wouldn't have had the reaction they did if WB/Snyder would have had the character development and understanding of what Superman really stood for first, like in Man of Stell where he talks about the crest meaning hope, and THEN later see him have to do that.  Parts of Man of Steel were excellent but the ending?  It was bad storytelling and it cost them ..... deservedly so.  

I agree with you that these movies had their issues but I think we were going somewhere, just took a long time to get there.  I always thought of the first three movies combined being an origin story for Superman and that we had not yet really seen who he was going to be...

In the first movie he barely enters the public's eye before this huge threat is thrust upon him.  He doesn't have a moment to think before there is a huge alien invasion.  He ends up making a decision he probably regrets, while also probably internally coping with the senseless loss of his Dad... he died to protect not his identity but the fact that he existed at all.  Supposedly human kind couldn't handle it and now he's out in the open.

In the second (ultimate edition) we see Clark trying to prove himself as a human (being a good reporter, boyfriend, son) and fitting in as Superman wherever he thinks he's needed, while the world questions if he should exist at all (maybe Pa was right).  We get the standard collage of good deeds; saving rockets, ships, hurricane victims, etc. (although he left Cats to find their own way out of trees) while the world doubts his true intentions.  Imagine the whole world wanting something from you and then at the same time being both scared of you and also questioning your existence.  Superman was doing the best he could while also not really being able to experience any joy because of the World's reaction to him.  The thing that bothered me the most about all three Snyder movies was Batman's immediate distrust of Superman in BvS.  He went right for 'I gotta kill this guy' instead of really applying any logic to it.  Batman could have been a great mentor to Clark/Supes instead of an enemy.  I would have preferred a meeting similar to the Superman animated series, a bit of rivalry but neither goes right to the attempted murder of the other.  Basically, Superman hasn't done anything to Batman except existing and ends up the guy hates him so much just for that reason that he wants to kill him.  Batman was a huge Tool.  Suddenly a shared threat brings them together and Superman is the 'bigger man' and literally gives his life to save everyone.  Batman was so wrong about everything in that movie it's not even funny.  Keep in mind, this is coming from a guy that has zero love for Miller or TDK.

By the end of the third (ZSJL) movie we FINALLY meet a Superman that is unapologetic for being who and what he is.  He has been hardened by Killing Zod (his only Homeboy) over us, he's more of a realist (I personally don't think murder will be his default at this point).  Then, he literally gave his own life to stop another threat... you can't provide much more proof that you are a good guy than that for goodness sakes.  He knows there will still be people like the BvS Batman that will question him, and even want him dead just because of who he is, but he doesn't give a spoon anymore.  He's going to be the Superman that the world needs because that's who he is and that's what he is now (he's been through too much).  No more letting people shake his and Pa's belief that he is here for a reason, it's their problem if they don't get it.  Putting all that behind him he can now use his powers to beat the heck out of a guy like Steppenwolf that deserves, but he can also travel around with some contentment and joy in his heart (saving Cats) that he has purpose and is happy with who he is.  He's got nothing to prove and owes the world nothing... yet he gives them everything anyways.  Superman.

I can't say that I was 100% on board with all the Snyder plans I heard about (Lois's death, etc) but I would have loved to see the Cavill Superman that was finally comfortable in his own skin... I know I am probably reading too far into this and I wish it wouldn't have taken so long to get there but I think it would have been a sight to see and a lot of fun.  Man of Steel 2 could have been the nice bright piece that we all wanted and the Justice League sequel/s could have dealt with the threat of Darkseid.

Having said all that... I am really happy with these casting choices.  I think they both look wonderful.  Still not thrilled about Krypto the Super Dog.  No matter the hype though I'm personally committed to not seeing any DC movies in the theatre when I can wait for a Max release.  I hope they do well but they'll have to do that without my box office cash.  Throughout the last several years the WB Studio/DCEU has done so much to disappoint me that there is no returning for me.  Plus, as I get older I enjoy movies more in my home theatre than I do in an actual theatre with a bunch of people kicking seats and looking at their phones   

[theCapraAegagrus]

On 6/29/2023 at 9:27 AM, Iconic1s said:

In the second (ultimate edition) we see Clark trying to prove himself as a human (being a good reporter, boyfriend, son) and fitting in as Superman wherever he thinks he's needed, while the world questions if he should exist at all (maybe Pa was right).  We get the standard collage of good deeds; saving rockets, ships, hurricane victims, etc. (although he left Cats to find their own way out of trees) while the world doubts his true intentions.  Imagine the whole world wanting something from you and then at the same time being both scared of you and also questioning your existence.  Superman was doing the best he could while also not really being able to experience any joy because of the World's reaction to him.  The thing that bothered me the most about all three Snyder movies was Batman's immediate distrust of Superman in BvS.  He went right for 'I gotta kill this guy' instead of really applying any logic to it.  Batman could have been a great mentor to Clark/Supes instead of an enemy.  I would have preferred a meeting similar to the Superman animated series, a bit of rivalry but neither goes right to the attempted murder of the other.  Basically, Superman hasn't done anything to Batman except existing and ends up the guy hates him so much just for that reason that he wants to kill him.  Batman was a huge Tool.  Suddenly a shared threat brings them together and Superman is the 'bigger man' and literally gives his life to save everyone.  Batman was so wrong about everything in that movie it's not even funny.  Keep in mind, this is coming from a guy that has zero love for Miller or TDK.

(Entire post.)

As has been mentioned before, Batman was intentionally the villain for about half of BvS. I wouldn't say that, "Superman hasn't done anything to Batman". Bruce witnessed Superman's first bout level a major city and thousands lost their lives. It's the same as Vision viewing the Avengers as a threat-magnet. Is Bruce wrong, though? Alexander Luthor Jr. went to the ends of the Earth to challenge Superman's power. Batman simply went extremist in his prep for dealing with Superman, exacerbated by this xenophobia of dealing with a "metahuman" for the first time. He eventually became disillusioned by Superman revealing who he is at his core when his back was against the floor; He begged Batman to save just 1 life at the cost of his own. I think it shows that even the best and most-prepared of us deal with hard times, fueled by the wrong thoughts, but hope can spring eternal.

I respect your opinion disliking TDKR Batman that this version was adapted from, though.

[Iconic1s]

On 6/29/2023 at 9:04 AM, theCapraAegagrus said:

"Superman hasn't done anything to Batman"

Okay, so I concede that he might have done something to raise a red flag or two 

Great insights!  I just think there are a lot more layers to these movies than anyone gives them credit for, especially with the BvS ultimate edition and the ZSJL.  I think over time they will stand alone even stronger as great character pieces inside a pretty unique world.  I think that even Lex, as weird as that portrayal was, had more to offer given more time... particularly in the BvS ultimate edition, you kind of get a glimpse that there is actually more genius behind the babbling public persona than he lets on.  I felt like he was sort of pulling one over on everyone.

I also forgot to mention that I initially wasn't thrilled about how Doomsday was done but I hung onto what the Genesis Chamber robots said, something like 'the Krypotinian Council has decreed that never again will such an abomination be created' which made me think that perhaps that another (the original) Doomsday had been created in such a way as Hunter/Prey and was out there somewhere (maybe even buried on Earth) and that the BvS Doomsday was just a creature made from that research which involved speeding up evolution.  Not that I ever wanted to see another Doomsday pop out of the ground, just that I thought that was cool.

Anyways, as this is the SUPERMAN: LEGACY thread I'll say again that I am really happy so far with the casting.  Hey, maybe Gunn really is the guy to take Superman in the DCEU to the next level!!  I hope so, would be so much fun to have a movie/Universe that is universally loved the way it should be.

 

[theCapraAegagrus]

On 6/29/2023 at 10:28 AM, Iconic1s said:

I also forgot to mention that I initially wasn't thrilled about how Doomsday was done but I hung onto what the Genesis Chamber robots said, something like 'the Krypotinian Council has decreed that never again will such an abomination be created' which made me think that perhaps that another (the original) Doomsday had been created in such a way as Hunter/Prey and was out there somewhere (maybe even buried on Earth) and that the BvS Doomsday was just a creature made from that research which involved speeding up evolution.  Not that I ever wanted to see another Doomsday pop out of the ground, just that I thought that was cool.

Anyways, as this is the SUPERMAN: LEGACY thread I'll say again that I am really happy so far with the casting.  Hey, maybe Gunn really is the guy to take Superman in the DCEU to the next level!!  I hope so, would be so much fun to have a movie/Universe that is universally loved the way it should be.

I also would have preferred the original Doomsday, and with him vs the entire League as opposed to just the Big 3. Happy with what we got, though.

The Corenswet casting makes sense, but he'll have to workout a bit. Doesn't need to be Cavill big, but at least have some physical screen presence.

[Iconic1s]

On 6/29/2023 at 10:07 AM, theCapraAegagrus said:

I also would have preferred the original Doomsday, and with him vs the entire League as opposed to just the Big 3.

YES!  Just imagine THAT!! 

[Bosco685]

On 6/29/2023 at 11:07 AM, theCapraAegagrus said:

I also would have preferred the original Doomsday, and with him vs the entire League as opposed to just the Big 3. Happy with what we got, though.

The Corenswet casting makes sense, but he'll have to workout a bit. Doesn't need to be Cavill big, but at least have some physical screen presence.

 

On 6/29/2023 at 11:26 AM, Iconic1s said:

YES!  Just imagine THAT!! 

The original Doomsday concept art of what was going to appear in BVS.

But then the same WB execs that worried about Kal-El having a rocketship in MOS to "return to Krypton" felt this was too monstrous. So they had Snyder soften his look.

Go WB!

Edited June 29, 2023 by Bosco685

[Ken Aldred]

On 6/29/2023 at 4:07 PM, theCapraAegagrus said:

The Corenswet casting makes sense, but he'll have to workout a bit. Doesn't need to be Cavill big, but at least have some physical screen presence.

Couldn’t have seen Nicholas Hoult as Superman.

 

[Bosco685]

On 6/29/2023 at 11:44 AM, Ken Aldred said:

Couldn’t have seen Nicholas Hoult as Superman.

 

Same here. Plus with the comedy roles he has done well in, it would be hard to take it serious.

But he was a wonderful serious Beast. So he does have that CBM background.

[theCapraAegagrus]

On 6/29/2023 at 11:44 AM, Ken Aldred said:

Couldn’t have seen Nicholas Hoult as Superman.

I really tried to see it, but yeah, doesn't have the right look for my imagination.

[Coverless 9.8]

On 6/28/2023 at 9:32 AM, drotto said:

The casting seems OK to me. What I do question is one of the premises apparently being used in the movie.  That this will be a Superman being introduced to a world that already has super powered people, namely the Authority.  

 

Not sure these universes need to coexist (although they sorta did in the comics if I rememebr).  It just seem awkward to me, and is a drastic departure from the world of Superman as general audiences know it.

I get the feeling that The Authority will play the role that The Elite played in Action #775.  One stood in for the other, and now it gets reversed.  

[Bosco685]

Quote

Superman Legacy, the movie that will mark the live-action rebirth of the DC Universe, has added three new actors to its cast, each of them playing a superhero with a long history in the comic books.

• Isabela Merced will play Hawkgirl
• Edi Gathegi will be Mister Terrific
• Nathan Fillion will portray a Green Lantern (although not necessarily the Green Lantern)

James Gunn, who wrote and will direct the 2025 movie, has already cast David Corenswet (The Politician) as Clark Kent and The Marvelous Mrs. Maisel star Rachel Brosnahan as Lois Lane. When it starts shooting in January 2024, it will set the course for the new DCU that the Guardians of the Galaxy filmmaker is building in collaboration with fellow chair and CEO of DC Studios Peter Safran. 

 

[Larryw7]

Another bomb.