Interesting YouTube Video. The Question is, "Does Heritage or CGC bear any responsibility?" 5 5

[Xenosmilus]

 

I feel for this guy...

 

[AJD]

Wow, that's some error. I wouldn't play CPR with a 9.6 GA semi-key, but that outcome is far beyond what you might reasonably factor in as a risk when making the decision. Clearly CGC failed to do it's one job here.

[theCapraAegagrus]

*sigh*

[Xenosmilus]

On 3/9/2023 at 8:11 AM, Foolish Mortal! said:

And why would Heritage bear any responsibility? That's like blaming Ebay if your slab gets cracked in the mail.

Not saying they should but technically the buyer did not get what he paid for. I think CGC bears some responsibility if it could be proved with zero doubt that is in fact the same book and there is no scam going on. 

[Hes Dead Jim]

Hey everyone.

In the video the guy says that the owner cracked the slab open before resubmitting it for pressing and re-grading. Why would anyone do that? Why nor just send it in for pressing already slabbed and let them do the work and bear the responsibility? I'm still a noob to this whole process but it seems to me that cracking a slab for any reason would void any responsibility for anyone other than the owner.

For all we know the current owner bought it, cracked the slab, cut out the coupon, and sent it in because he/she needed to show a loss for tax purposes or something like that. I'm not saying he/she did, there is just now way of knowing once the slab is cracked.

The other side of the coin would be, if the owner sent it in to cgc slabbed, would they still downgrade it or just bury it to hide their first alleged error?

Trading cards, coins and stamps are easy to verify because they only have 2 sides, but books and magazines and items with anything that cannot be seen will usually come down to a he said / she said.

[10centcomics]

On 3/9/2023 at 8:06 AM, Foolish Mortal! said:

That's what you get for being greedy.

This is a really bad take. While I also don't support the practice of CPR, that doesn't mean this person doesn't deserve to have their collectible accurately graded. They made a buying decision based on the grade and label color and it turns out something huge was missed. Call me naive but I also don't think there is any possibility that the owner intentionally did this. The most likely scenario is that the clipped coupon was missed by CGC in the original grading.

This case actually sounds pretty similar to my own situation that I shared on the boards a few days ago, although the financial loss was much smaller. I cracked open a blue label 5.0 Archive 47 (not for CPR, but I like to keep books in my collection raw so I can read them) and it was missing the pin-up page. I'm appreciative that CGC is doing the right thing and refunding me the cost of the book. Hopefully that happened in this case, too.

 

[seanfingh]

The people that do these videos are usually so bad and so cringey.  This guy is very well spoken, logical and entertaining.  I really enjoyed his analysis and his demeanor.

[10centcomics]

On 3/9/2023 at 5:06 PM, Foolish Mortal! said:

The greedy part that I was referring to is what I quoted above:

". I wouldn't play CPR with a 9.6 GA semi-key"

 

Yeah I got that. I'm making the point that the greediness doesn't factor into this discussion at all. You can also imagine a situation where someone cracks open a book and wants to keep it raw in their collection and discovers a clipped coupon. In both situations, the buyer deserves to get an accurately graded comic book.

[Gaard]

Wanting to make money is not greed.

[10centcomics]

On 3/9/2023 at 5:10 PM, Foolish Mortal! said:

The reason the book was cracked in the first place was greed 

You seem fixated on the wrong thing here. The issue at hand is CGC missing a clipped coupon during their grading of this book.

[Gaard]

Regarding letting CGC crack the book out, I never let CGC do this. I'm positive I'm more careful with my books than they are.

[10centcomics]

On 3/9/2023 at 5:20 PM, Foolish Mortal! said:

And you're missing my point that we never would've known it had a clipped coupon if it wasn't for greed

I guess you're just trolling here. You're okay with owning misgraded books as long you don't know about it? And books can be cracked out of their CGC cases for many reasons besides CPR or "greed" as you call it.

[Axe Elf]

On 3/9/2023 at 4:27 PM, Foolish Mortal! said:

Schrodinger's cat. coupon.

It's both in the book and not in the book until someone at CGC does their job.

[Xenosmilus]

On 3/9/2023 at 12:37 PM, Hes Dead Jim said:

For all we know the current owner bought it, cracked the slab, cut out the coupon, and sent it in because he/she needed to show a loss for tax purposes or something like that. I'm not saying he/she did, there is just now way of knowing once the slab is cracked.

I think everyone could agree that it’s not worth the stress , risk for a book of that notoriety and relatively small amount of dollar return on the gamble. Personally, I think it’s a legit compliment and a massive error from CGC. I do agree with the YouTuber that Heritage and CGC most likely have no legal responsibility but it would be a good gesture from them to help out with the loss. just my 

[Tony S]

I don't want to appear....cold hearted.  But crack press and resubmit (CPR) is not guaranteed $$. It's a risk/reward equation. Maybe CGC missed something the first time. Maybe they are more strict on certain defects today than they were years ago. 

Most importantly, you have to have balls the size of King Kong's to crack a 1947 CGC 9.6 book hoping for 9.8. That is truly a high risk / high reward gamble. The owner lost this time. 

And the obvious problem here is that it COULD be a hustle.  CGC could end up paying out constantly to people that claim - with no real proof - that a coupon was clipped or page was missing.  CGC has it's own in house pressing service.  If you send the book in still encapsulated to them to CPR and it flips from blue to green or purple you have a good claim for compensation. Otherwise CGC has every right to say "no". 

[10centcomics]

On 3/9/2023 at 11:54 PM, Tony S said:

I don't want to appear....cold hearted.  But crack press and resubmit (CPR) is not guaranteed $$. It's a risk/reward equation. Maybe CGC missed something the first time. Maybe they are more strict on certain defects today than they were years ago. 

Most importantly, you have to have balls the size of King Kong's to crack a 1947 CGC 9.6 book hoping for 9.8. That is truly a high risk / high reward gamble. The owner lost this time. 

And the obvious problem here is that it COULD be a hustle.  CGC could end up paying out constantly to people that claim - with no real proof - that a coupon was clipped or page was missing.  CGC has it's own in house pressing service.  If you send the book in still encapsulated to them to CPR and it flips from blue to green or purple you have a good claim for compensation. Otherwise CGC has every right to say "no". 

To my knowledge there was never a time when CGC would grade a book with a clipped coupon as a blue label 9.6. This isn't an issue of CGC being stricter on this defect.

To your second point, I agree there are risks associated with a CPR. Maybe you put an oily fingerprint on the cover as you yank it out of the inner well. Maybe you drop it and blunt a corner. Maybe it gets damaged in shipment or during the pressing process itself. But that's not what has happened here. In this case cracking it open revealed a major oversight from CGC. We are letting the controversial practice of CPR-on-a-high-grade-book distract us from the issue at hand which is CGC missed a clipped coupon in a book.

To your last point, there is no hustle here. There are many grifters in this hobby but this is not one of them. I cannot see any situation where someone thinks they can make reliably make money from purposely taking scissors to high-grade books and getting refunds for it. The only explanation for this is that it was missed. Mistakes happen and hopefully CGC will do the right thing here. 

[Tony S]

On 3/9/2023 at 11:51 PM, 10centcomics said:

To my knowledge there was never a time when CGC would grade a book with a clipped coupon as a blue label 9.6. This isn't an issue of CGC being stricter on this defect.

To your second point, I agree there are risks associated with a CPR. Maybe you put an oily fingerprint on the cover as you yank it out of the inner well. Maybe you drop it and blunt a corner. Maybe it gets damaged in shipment or during the pressing process itself. But that's not what has happened here. In this case cracking it open revealed a major oversight from CGC. We are letting the controversial practice of CPR-on-a-high-grade-book distract us from the issue at hand which is CGC missed a clipped coupon in a book.

To your last point, there is no hustle here. There are many grifters in this hobby but this is not one of them. I cannot see any situation where someone thinks they can make reliably make money from purposely taking scissors to high-grade books and getting refunds for it. The only explanation for this is that it was missed. Mistakes happen and hopefully CGC will do the right thing here. 

Every hustler claims there is no hustle here.  Otherwise they are not a hustler. 

And the hustle isn't tanking scissors to a CGC graded high grade book after cracking it out. The hustle is already having a high grade book missing a coupon - then purchasing a complete CGC graded  high grade copy of the same book and swearing when you cracked it out the book was missing the coupon. 

I am not making accusations. I can't possibly know for sure. CGC can't possibly know for sure. I'm pointing out the endless wave of claims that could come CGC's way if they pay out. The owner of the book that decided to bust it out and regrade  rolled the dice and they lost.  Maybe the next roll of the dice will go better. Maybe they will decide to quit gambling.  If you can't stand losing sometimes you should quit gambling. 

[10centcomics]

On 3/10/2023 at 1:05 AM, Tony S said:

Every hustler claims there is no hustle here.  Otherwise they are not a hustler. 

And the hustle isn't tanking scissors to a CGC graded high grade book after cracking it out. The hustle is already having a high grade book missing a coupon - then purchasing a complete CGC graded  high grade copy of the same book and swearing when you cracked it out the book was missing the coupon. 

I am not making accusations. I can't possibly know for sure. CGC can't possibly know for sure. I'm pointing out the endless wave of claims that could come CGC's way if they pay out. The owner of the book that decided to bust it out and regrade  rolled the dice and they lost.  Maybe the next roll of the dice will go better. Maybe they will decide to quit gambling.  If you can't stand losing sometimes you should quit gambling. 

Your scenario is even more unlikely. There are only a handful of high-grade examples of a GA book like Startling 47. And someone can easily tell if it's the same book or not by comparing minor defects/imperfections, how the cover is wrapped, etc. In this particular case, there is writing on the cover which makes it even more obvious that it's the same book.

[Tony S]

I could lightly add a grease pencil arrival date to a book. 

IF your point is that it's probably the same book - I agree. If your point it is 100% certain it's the same book - I disagree. 

IF your point is CGC owes someone money -  I 100% disagree.   The original owner had what they paid for. A CGC graded 9.6.  They decided to roll the dice - really high risk undertaking - and it didn't work out.  CGC has their own in house pressing service.  If it had been sent there and came back 9.8 qualified - for a cut out coupon - they would be discussing how much compensation, not if there is compensation. 

If one gambles, one sometimes looses.  No one owes you jack. 

[KCOComics]

Maybe the buyer just really wanted a MR. Tracey radio watch??