Top 5 M-SHE-U Failures 4 4

[Microchip]

On 4/12/2023 at 12:08 AM, paperheart said:

 

It's like some Disney exec read a single Gen13 comic, and said I've got this comic book business all sorted.  

[sfcityduck]

On 4/11/2023 at 4:40 PM, batman_fan said:

  Profit per employee is what matters.

“Per employee?”  
 

l’d agree if you were saying revenue matters less than profit.  But who cares about the number of employees?  They are just one element of cost.

[sfcityduck]

What are you guys complaining Disney did again?  With all the whining  I am not sure what outraged anyone.

[batman_fan]

On 4/11/2023 at 8:28 PM, sfcityduck said:

“Per employee?”  
 

l’d agree if you were saying revenue matters less than profit.  But who cares about the number of employees?  They are just one element of cost.

True but there are target number of $/employee based on the industry.  It is a metric used to judge how well managed a company is within an industry. 

[sfcityduck]

On 4/11/2023 at 7:30 PM, batman_fan said:

True but there are target number of $/employee based on the industry.  It is a metric used to judge how well managed a company is within an industry. 

What industry?  The film industry is known for using independent contractors.

[batman_fan]

On 4/11/2023 at 8:33 PM, sfcityduck said:

What industry?  The film industry is known for using independent contractors.

It varies based on industry but you can compare across industries.  Certain industries like social media should have a real high ratio (millions per employee), semiconductor low side for a poorly run company is $500k/employee.  Walmart and Target (retail) much lower. Year over year # should be increasing so trend over time is telling.      

[Larryw7]

On 4/11/2023 at 10:30 PM, sfcityduck said:

What are you guys complaining Disney did again?  With all the whining  I am not sure what outraged anyone.

Because they suck.

[october]

On 4/11/2023 at 11:38 PM, Larryw7 said:

Because they suck.

Just shut up and consume CGI cartoon content in preparation for next round of content.

[@therealsilvermane]

On 4/11/2023 at 10:33 PM, sfcityduck said:

What industry?  The film industry is known for using independent contractors.

Unionized industry contract workers like SAG, DGA, ICG, Writers Guild, etc

[sfcityduck]

On 4/11/2023 at 9:38 PM, Larryw7 said:

Because they suck.

Real insightful answer.  Here's the thing Disney bought Marvel in 2009 and the facts are that: 

• Marvel invented the Invisible Girl in its very first SA superhero comic;
• Marvel invented female Ant-Man in 1963 (the Wasp);
• Marvel invented Jean Grey of X-Men in 1963;
• Marvel invented Scarlet Witch in 1963;
• Marvel invented Valkyrie (a She-Thor) in 1970;
• Marvel invented important femail Gaurdians of the Galaxy in the 1960s and 1970s;
• Marvel invented other important female X-Men in the 1970s and 1980s;
• Marvel invented Ms. Marvel Carol Danvers in 1977 (1st) and again with Sharon Ventura in 1985 (2nd);
• Marvel invented Spider-Woman in 1977;
• Marvel invented She-Hulk in 1979; and
• Marvel invented Capt. Marvel Monica Rambeau in 1982.

All before Disney bought Marvel.  I could go on.  And yet you guys are fixated on blaming Disney for female superheroes?

You should be grateful to Marvel for embracing diversity. Stan Lee and Marvel had the right values.  I can't blame Disney for following the well-trod path Marvel forged and putting out movies like the Miles Morales Spiderman with Spider-Gwen etc. which as a total blast! That movie made the folks on this site who were freaking out that there could be Spider-folks who weren't Peter Parker look more than a little silly. 

I am pleased that Disney is willing to take risks.  There are only so many times you can tell the same story over and over.  Disney products like Star Wars Andor, Wandavision, and Loki have been brilliant additions to old stale universes.  Shows like Daredevil (a non-cinematic but old stand-by character) haven't.  Disney gets to call the shots and if some lose money (and I'm not sure that any have) so what?  A show like Andor that isn't as popular as some others adds to the Star Wars legend. So too with Wandavision and Loki for the MCU.  Brilliant stuff that broke molds.  Not true for a lot of MCU tv and movies which aren't aging real well.

[JC25427N]

On 4/12/2023 at 3:04 PM, sfcityduck said:

Real insightful answer.  Here's the thing Disney bought Marvel in 2009 and the facts are that: 

• Marvel invented the Invisible Girl in its very first SA superhero comic;
• Marvel invented female Ant-Man in 1963 (the Wasp);
• Marvel invented Jean Grey of X-Men in 1963;
• Marvel invented Scarlet Witch in 1963;
• Marvel invented Valkyrie (a She-Thor) in 1970;
• Marvel invented important femail Gaurdians of the Galaxy in the 1960s and 1970s;
• Marvel invented other important female X-Men in the 1970s and 1980s;
• Marvel invented Ms. Marvel Carol Danvers in 1977 (1st) and again with Sharon Ventura in 1985 (2nd);
• Marvel invented Spider-Woman in 1977;
• Marvel invented She-Hulk in 1979; and
• Marvel invented Capt. Marvel Monica Rambeau in 1982.

All before Disney bought Marvel.  I could go on.  And yet you guys are fixated on blaming Disney for female superheroes?

You should be grateful to Marvel for embracing diversity. Stan Lee and Marvel had the right values.  I can't blame Disney for following the well-trod path Marvel forged and putting out movies like the Miles Morales Spiderman with Spider-Gwen etc. which as a total blast! That movie made the folks on this site who were freaking out that there could be Spider-folks who weren't Peter Parker look more than a little silly. 

I am pleased that Disney is willing to take risks.  There are only so many times you can tell the same story over and over.  Disney products like Star Wars Andor, Wandavision, and Loki have been brilliant additions to old stale universes.  Shows like Daredevil (a non-cinematic but old stand-by character) haven't.  Disney gets to call the shots and if some lose money (and I'm not sure that any have) so what?  A show like Andor that isn't as popular as some others adds to the Star Wars legend. So too with Wandavision and Loki for the MCU.  Brilliant stuff that broke molds.  Not true for a lot of MCU tv and movies which aren't aging real well.

I don't think people are outraged that these characters exist, I think people are outraged at the bad writing of recent MCU content and because of the bad writing, the portrayal of these characters in that content suffer for it

[TupennyConan]

On 4/12/2023 at 3:04 PM, sfcityduck said:

• Marvel invented the Invisible Girl in its very first SA superhero comic;
• Marvel invented female Ant-Man in 1963 (the Wasp);
• Marvel invented Jean Grey of X-Men in 1963;
• Marvel invented Scarlet Witch in 1963;
• Marvel invented Valkyrie (a She-Thor) in 1970;
• Marvel invented important femail Gaurdians of the Galaxy in the 1960s and 1970s;
• Marvel invented other important female X-Men in the 1970s and 1980s;
• Marvel invented Ms. Marvel Carol Danvers in 1977 (1st) and again with Sharon Ventura in 1985 (2nd);
• Marvel invented Spider-Woman in 1977;
• Marvel invented She-Hulk in 1979; and
• Marvel invented Capt. Marvel Monica Rambeau in 1982.

Great list. I'm a fanboy for them all. The destruction of these characters & the cinematic universe they share with all the other characters began with the MCU's Black Widow in 2021.  

[topofthetotem]

Oh well they all can’t be winners. 

[Mystafo]

On 4/12/2023 at 2:04 PM, sfcityduck said:

Real insightful answer.  Here's the thing Disney bought Marvel in 2009 and the facts are that: 

• Marvel invented the Invisible Girl in its very first SA superhero comic;
• Marvel invented female Ant-Man in 1963 (the Wasp);
• Marvel invented Jean Grey of X-Men in 1963;
• Marvel invented Scarlet Witch in 1963;
• Marvel invented Valkyrie (a She-Thor) in 1970;
• Marvel invented important femail Gaurdians of the Galaxy in the 1960s and 1970s;
• Marvel invented other important female X-Men in the 1970s and 1980s;
• Marvel invented Ms. Marvel Carol Danvers in 1977 (1st) and again with Sharon Ventura in 1985 (2nd);
• Marvel invented Spider-Woman in 1977;
• Marvel invented She-Hulk in 1979; and
• Marvel invented Capt. Marvel Monica Rambeau in 1982.

All before Disney bought Marvel.  I could go on.  And yet you guys are fixated on blaming Disney for female superheroes?

You should be grateful to Marvel for embracing diversity. Stan Lee and Marvel had the right values.  I can't blame Disney for following the well-trod path Marvel forged and putting out movies like the Miles Morales Spiderman with Spider-Gwen etc. which as a total blast! That movie made the folks on this site who were freaking out that there could be Spider-folks who weren't Peter Parker look more than a little silly. 

I am pleased that Disney is willing to take risks.  There are only so many times you can tell the same story over and over.  Disney products like Star Wars Andor, Wandavision, and Loki have been brilliant additions to old stale universes.  Shows like Daredevil (a non-cinematic but old stand-by character) haven't.  Disney gets to call the shots and if some lose money (and I'm not sure that any have) so what?  A show like Andor that isn't as popular as some others adds to the Star Wars legend. So too with Wandavision and Loki for the MCU.  Brilliant stuff that broke molds.  Not true for a lot of MCU tv and movies which aren't aging real well.

And Disney came along and screwed all those great things up

[sfcityduck]

On 4/12/2023 at 12:56 PM, Mystafo said:

And Disney came along and screwed all those great things up

How? Face Facts: Ms. Marvel and She-Hulk were never great properties. Kudos to Disney for taking a creative risk.  

Disney did a great job with Wandavision, Loki, and Hawkeye post-retirement.  I enjoyed them all immensely.  

Fans like fan service movies.  But they are often creatively bankrupt. 

Disney has shown a willingness to take risks to freshen a stale MCU up.  Fans here who think the solution to all storytelling problems is just to recast and tell the same stories from their childhood over and over again aren't living in a creative world.  I prefer worlds where creatives are empowerd to take a creative risks.  That's what leads to great comics and movies.  

The real cautionary tale for Marvel fans is the four FF failures that were created without Disney's involvement.  The best FF films were the Incredibles movies made by Disney.

 

[drotto]

On 4/12/2023 at 3:56 PM, Mystafo said:

And Disney came along and screwed all those great things up

It has never had anything to do with female characters.  X-Men was my first comic.  Two of my favorite characters ever are Rouge and Kitty, bar none.  It has to do with the writing and portrayal of these characters.  It has to do with the one note portrayal of the newer characters.  While there are some exceptions, all the new female characters are portrayed as near flawless, smarter than everyone else in the room, always the boss, always the key to the story, and always right. They do not have significant character arcs. The newer males are usually portrayed as comic relief, bumbling, stupid, and must be put in their place at least once during each film.  So it feels like the approach is males must be diminished to elevate females. It feels forced. If it was just well written and felt organic, nobody would care.

 

The MCU has gone from too male, to becoming too female.   I am not disputing there needed to be better balance, but they way overshot balance and went to outright female dominance. I am not talking overall balance in all MCU films, I am talking about the films coming out right now. Fans want balance, not one note, poorly written, predictable characters, and stories.

Edited April 12, 2023 by drotto

[Mystafo]

On 4/12/2023 at 3:27 PM, sfcityduck said:

How? Face Facts: Ms. Marvel and She-Hulk were never great properties. Kudos to Disney for taking a creative risk.  

Disney did a great job with Wandavision, Loki, and Hawkeye post-retirement.  I enjoyed them all immensely.  

Fans like fan service movies.  But they are often creatively bankrupt. 

Disney has shown a willingness to take risks to freshen a stale MCU up.  Fans here who think the solution to all storytelling problems is just to recast and tell the same stories from their childhood over and over again aren't living in a creative world.  I prefer worlds where creatives are empowerd to take a creative risks.  That's what leads to great comics and movies.  

The real cautionary tale for Marvel fans is the four FF failures that were created without Disney's involvement.  The best FF films were the Incredibles movies made by Disney.

 

Drotto answered better than I could.

[october]

On 4/12/2023 at 3:27 PM, sfcityduck said:

But they are often creatively bankrupt. 

 

Unlike time travel and infinite universes? They are the final arrows in the quiver of dead-end, idea-less, pointless, zero-stakes storytelling. There is nothing, nothing, creative about those tired, stale tropes...and they were both already used. Hell, they built an entire phase around the second one.

[TupennyConan]

Entertainment isn't profitable nor entertaining when it's an angry social lecture.

Once an entertainer decides the angry social lecture matters most, they should enter politics & revist entertaining some other day.

[sfcityduck]

On 4/12/2023 at 1:31 PM, drotto said:

It has never had anything to do with female characters.  ... The newer males are usually portrayed as comic relief, bumbling, stupid, and must be put in their place at least once during each film.  So it feels like the approach is males must be diminished to elevate females. ... The MCU has gone from too male, to becoming too female.   I am not disputing there needed to be better balance, but they way overshot balance and went to outright female dominance.

The title of this thread is "The Top 5 M-SHE-U Failures."  Your response is self-contradictory.  I think this thread has everything to do with female characters.  If it didn't you wouldn't be complaining about the MCU being "too female" and about "female dominance."  

I have no problem with strong female characters or movies about females.  

In the MCU, the vast majority of films to date have centered on males.  It took the MCU until its 20th film to give a female a significant title lead.  Since that time only 6 of 12 films (50%) have arguably been female centered.  I have no problem giving women a chance for a while.  Not sure why anyone would.

Your complaint about "too female" and "female dominance" is more than bit overstated and shrill.