Top 5 M-SHE-U Failures 4 4

[Bosco685]

On 4/13/2023 at 11:33 AM, drotto said:

Facts are people are leaving.  Yes the box offices on the surface still look OK, but simple facts.

 

The MCU has not had a billion dollar film in 5 years. Balck Panther 2 made about $500 million less then its predecessor.  QM is the lowest grossing of the franchise.   So based on those raw number, tickets sales are down.  Now adjust those numbers further, knowing that there has been inflation of ticket prices of about 30%.  That means you need to sell less tickets to bring in the same amount of money. So it is I disputable that the audience between inflation and lower box office, that fewer people are watching.

Disney is cutting 7,000 employees in this month to save $5.5B in costs because all is well I guess.

Wonder what it would do in bad times?

[sfcityduck]

On 4/13/2023 at 8:47 AM, Kripsys99 said:

Rather than engage in dialectic, you proselytized in bad faith, failing to cede any of the reasonable counterpoints to your assertions, and flinging ad hominem attacks at individuals whose view points differed from your own. Then, when it became evident that a plurality of posters in this thread didn't agree with you, rather than show any sign of good faith engagement and self-reflection on areas of disagreement, you doubled down on your complete and utter intransigence, then took your ball and went home. All 'round good look.

All of that said, I'm done too! After all:

"The only fool bigger than the person who knows it all is the person who argues with him."

— Stanislaw Jerzy Lec

 

Facts are not determined by a vote. If your opinion is unfounded it does not matter if others on the internet share your incorrect views. If you cannot construct a valid argument for your opinions other than your feelings, you risk looking like someone who is acting irrationally. That’s just the way it is.

[drotto]

On 4/13/2023 at 11:52 AM, sfcityduck said:

Facts are not determined by a vote. If your opinion is unfounded it does not matter if others on the internet share your incorrect views. If you cannot construct a valid argument for your opinions other than your feelings, you risk looking like someone who is acting irrationally. That’s just the way it is.

Like all the facts you have chosen to ignor?  Disney cutting funds, box office down, audience down, people being fired, projects being delayed, management being shuffled, reshoots, etc, etc, etc.

 

Anyone can connect those dots.

[sfcityduck]

On 4/13/2023 at 8:50 AM, Bosco685 said:

Disney is cutting 7,000 employees in this month to save $5.5B in costs because all is well I guess.

Wonder what it would do in bad times?

Disney has 220,000 employees.  That is only 3% of its workforce. We are not talking Elon Musk style failure here. Disney is a massive conglomerate.  The firsr cuts I read about were in its “meta verse” division.  Seems like this is appropriate cost cutting that trims excess, not the kind gutting of a company we see elsewhere.

[sfcityduck]

On 4/13/2023 at 8:57 AM, drotto said:

Like all the facts you have chosen to ignor?  Disney cutting funds, box office down, audience down, people being fired, projects being delayed, management being shuffled, reshoots, etc, etc, etc.

 

Anyone can connect those dots.

All are addressed above.  I realize you are ignoring my arguments you find difficult to address but I did think you were reading them at least.  

[Dr. Love]

On 4/13/2023 at 7:34 AM, sfcityduck said:

Yes.  They have a problem due to scarcity of access to vfx and they fired an abusive executive who wasn’t handling that problem well and reshuffled their schedule (a historically common occurrence) to help fix that problem.

Which has what to do with female centered movies?  Nothing.

You guys are getting desperate and are just flinging mud against the walls in the hope some sticks.

The firing of Alonso, one of the most powerful women in Hollywood not least by virtue of her multiple protected statuses, is a leading indicator of an enormous shift within the system.  At the end of the day, the film industry, for now, is capitalist based.  For monetary returns to eclipse the predominant cultural hegemony which drives the output, those returns have to be shocking in the extreme.

And good talk!  

[Bosco685]

On 4/13/2023 at 11:59 AM, sfcityduck said:

Disney has 220,000 employees.  That is only 3% of its workforce. We are not talking Elon Musk style failure here. Disney is a massive conglomerate.  The firsr cuts I read about were in its “meta verse” division.  Seems like this is appropriate cost cutting that trims excess, not the kind gutting of a company we see elsewhere.

NYT: Searching for Streaming Profit, Disney Cuts $5.5 Billion in Costs

Quote

In his first earnings report since he came out of retirement to retake the reins of a troubled Disney, Mr. Iger unveiled a new operating structure for the company — one designed to galvanize its film and television studios while drastically cutting costs. As part of the restructuring, Disney expects to cut costs by $5.5 billion and eliminate roughly 7,000 jobs, or about 4 percent of its global total.

 

“We must return creativity to the center of the company, increase accountability, improve results and ensure the quality of our content and experiences,” Mr. Iger said on an earnings-related conference call with analysts.

Drastic cuts are not BAU. That is a major shift in operating costs.

I appreciate you want to be the Disney Whisperer. But even the market recognizes how extensive a shift this is.

[drotto]

On 4/13/2023 at 12:01 PM, sfcityduck said:

All are addressed above.  I realize you are ignoring my arguments you find difficult to address but I did think you were reading them at least.  

No,  you putting forward a corporate narative. A nothing to see here mentality, and finding excuses rather than facing the facts, and what logic should tell you they mean.

 

I will just leave it at this, myself and the majority of people here seem to be reaching very different conclusions based on the information we have in front of us.

[sfcityduck]

On 4/13/2023 at 9:09 AM, Bosco685 said:

NYT: Searching for Streaming Profit, Disney Cuts $5.5 Billion in Costs

Drastic cuts are not BAU. That is a major shift in operating costs.

I appreciate you want to be the Disney Whisperer. But even the market recognizes how extensive a shift this is.

I am sure that Iger appreciates that NYT used that descriptor, but that is pretty meaningless.  Disney is trimming its workforce and other costs.  Do you think that is unusual in business?  This is not a Twitter or other tech company situation. 

[sfcityduck]

On 4/13/2023 at 9:11 AM, drotto said:

No,  you putting forward a corporate narative. A nothing to see here mentality, and finding excuses rather than facing the facts, and what logic should tell you they mean.

 

I will just leave it at this, myself and the majority of people here seem to be reaching very different conclusions based on the information we have in front of us.

You can lead a horse to water …

Get back to me if you want to substantively address my points instead of relying upon “I’m right because my internet buddies echo my views.”

[theCapraAegagrus]

If you're not literally blind, you can literally see how bad the MCU projects have been handled. Like, with your eyes. They look objectively poor by modern standards. Illogical character continuity and plot holes are additional objective metrics we can use to measure Phase Bore's failures.

So a combination of poor creative choices, bloated budgets, higher ticket costs, lower ticket sales, executive firings, delays, re-writes, re-shoots, etc etc etc... That's not enough evidence for you? In reality, we would call that "crazy".

[sfcityduck]

On 4/13/2023 at 9:06 AM, Dr. Love said:

The firing of Alonso, one of the most powerful women in Hollywood not least by virtue of her multiple protected statuses, is a leading indicator of an enormous shift within the system.  At the end of the day, the film industry, for now, is capitalist based.  For monetary returns to eclipse the predominant cultural hegemony which drives the output, those returns have to be shocking in the extreme.

And good talk!  

Executives get ousted.  It happens.  Harder now if you are a volatile personality as she was all edged to be.  Seems like she was not handling vfx well.  Good reason to let her go regardless of anything else. Has she sued?  

[sfcityduck]

On 4/13/2023 at 9:19 AM, theCapraAegagrus said:

If you're not literally blind, you can literally see how bad the MCU projects have been handled. Like, with your eyes. They look objectively poor by modern standards. Illogical character continuity and plot holes are additional objective metrics we can use to measure Phase Bore's failures.

So a combination of poor creative choices, bloated budgets, higher ticket costs, lower ticket sales, executive firings, delays, re-writes, re-shoots, etc etc etc... That's not enough evidence for you? In reality, we would call that "crazy".

Opinions differ on the movies. Some folks opinions may be driven by political views we are not allowed to address. But all the issues you mention have already been addressed by me and those points stand unrefuted. 
 

Feelings are nice and they can lead to good decisions in various areas like matters of the heart etc. But facts matter more in other areas like this.

[theCapraAegagrus]

On 4/13/2023 at 12:24 PM, sfcityduck said:

Opinions differ on the movies. Some folks opinions may be driven by political views we are not allowed to address. But all the issues you mention have already been addressed by me and those points stand unrefuted. 
 

Feelings are nice and they can lead to good decisions in various areas like matters of the heart etc. But facts matter more in other areas like this.

No, they have not been addressed by you. If you're not convinced by the objective facts laid before you, you're insane.

[drotto]

On 4/13/2023 at 12:26 PM, theCapraAegagrus said:

No, they have not been addressed by you. If you're not convinced by the objective facts laid before you, you're insane.

No, the facts have been objectively ignored, brushed under the rug, or sloppily been painted over with the happy brush.

 

Even when former Disney advocates and allies are now pointing out the exact same facts and issues, regardless of any underpinnings or leanings.

[sfcityduck]

On 4/13/2023 at 9:26 AM, theCapraAegagrus said:

No, they have not been addressed by you. If you're not convinced by the objective facts laid before you, you're insane.

This is just another overwrought statement of your feelings with no supporting analysis. Feel free to tell me which specific statement I made above in addressing the points you seem to think are important was deficient.  Better yet, quote it, tell me why its deficient, and I'll get back to you. I'm not going to guess at whatever you think I haven't refuted.

[sfcityduck]

On 4/13/2023 at 9:30 AM, drotto said:

No, the facts have been objectively ignored, brushed under the rug, or sloppily been painted over with the happy brush.

 

 

 

You are on -script with Caepra, but you'll have to do better than that.  Tell me what "fact" has been ignored and I'll respond or paste in my prior unrefuted responses.

[theCapraAegagrus]

On 4/13/2023 at 12:59 PM, sfcityduck said:

This is just another overwrought statement of your feelings with no supporting analysis. Feel free to tell me which specific statement I made above in addressing the points you seem to think are important was deficient.  Better yet, quote it, tell me why its deficient, and I'll get back to you. I'm not going to guess at whatever you think I haven't refuted.

Show me which one of these objective metrics is "feelings":

Quote

poor creative choices (character logic, plot holes, objective measures)

bloated budgets

higher ticket costs

lower ticket sales

executive firings

delays

re-writes

re-shoots

You haven't dismissed a single point being conveyed to you. This can be a learning experience for you.

[theCapraAegagrus]

Accountability is more important than your desire to feel right.

You and RSM can send that up the ladder.

[sfcityduck]

On 4/13/2023 at 10:01 AM, theCapraAegagrus said:

 

You haven't dismissed a single point being conveyed to you. This can be a learning experience for you.

You came late to this part of the discussion and you need to read the posts.

poor creative choices (character logic, plot holes, objective measures) - Already addressed extensively above.  Go read my many posts, to much to paste here.

bloated budgets, higher ticket costs, lower ticket sales, delays, re-writes, re-shoots - Aside from no one in this part of conversation has provided specific examples of "bloated budgets", we've already addressed the grosses, economics, delays, etc.  Again, read above - too many to paste here. 

executive firings - That is addressed above on this very page and on prior pages! 

You are being too lazy for me to waste my time in finding you the answers.  They are all above.