The cost of selling moderns… 2 2

[the authority]

Looking at the current cost to grade, ship, and sell a modern comic got me wondering some things today. Where is my line in the sand where it isn’t cost effective to sell a modern book. The costs to grade, ship, and ship back a comic is roughly $30. If you sell on eBay, you’re going to pay 13% in fees for both the product price and the cost to ship. You also have to take into account the cost of the book. For this example, let’s say a raw book that $20 online plus tax and shipping might be worth $100 graded in a 9.8. Let’s use a 5% sales tax and $5 to get the book shipped.

 

Now our book cost us the following.

$20 comic

$10 shipping and sales tax 

$25 grading 

$5 shipping to and from CGC

$14 eBay fees 

for a total of roughly $74. 
 

You still have the investment of handling time and in most cases fuel. 

I’m aware that there are other ways to sell such as the boards, Facebook ,Instagram, etc. All of these ways are slightly riskier and more time is required in my experience. Time is something I’m lacking.

That leads us to a rough profit estimate of of $26. Even if you buy the book new off of the shelf, your cost drops $15 and you clear $41. This assumes every single book grades a 9.8 which is not a reasonable assumption imo. Then you have a federal tax on your earnings. You might set up at a show and save the eBay fees but then it becomes a job with overhead. How much is your time worth ?
 

I’m not knocking anyone or any business model. Just curious as to what others think about trying to sell graded moderns. So what purchase price vs sales price would you consider a book to be worth your time and effort ? Does it make more sense to sell raw ?

 

For me, when it was $14.40 to grade a modern and 10% to sell on eBay, this was a much easier thing to decide. That wasn’t very long ago.

 

 

[Tnexus]

eBay fees are actually higher. If it sells for $100 and the buyer pays $14 for shipping plus 6% tax, your fees are $16.36, or basically 16.50%. I will also always factor in about $1 in shipping materials too. So your profit is now about $22.50.

[Lightning55]

The margins are tighter than ever. You've done the math, so from there you have to find product to grade that leaves you some room to make a reasonable profit. A tough thing to accomplish.

I would think that most people making money at it regularly are working with older stock, or something they have low $$$ into. Or are satisfied with small margins on high volume. It can be done with Moderns, carefully. 

[thehumantorch]

You left our pressing costs for at least some people.  It gets much worse if you’re outside the US and exchange rates are a factor and shipping is high.   Also I was dinged by customs on me box of slabs.  All in it’s costing me close to $90 per book Canadian is I send in a box.  
 

At that cost I have to think about what I could sell a book for raw as opposed to graded.  And I have to think about risk of damage, small but real, and risk of making a mistake on grade l, and risk of a book dropping in value when it’s out for grading which has happened too often

[World Devourer]

On 4/21/2023 at 4:21 PM, thehumantorch said:

 It gets much worse if you’re outside the US and exchange rates are a factor and shipping is high.   Also I was dinged by customs on me box of slabs.  

Bingo. That's why if I sell on Ebay, I price high to factor these things in. If someone really wants it, then they have to pay, as I'm not running a charity.

[Beastfeast]

With almost anything over $100, I’m getting more and more happy to send it to MCS and forgo eBay entirely. It’s still the place for selling lots and things in the $15-50 range, I think. 
 

however it does add to shipping costs a bit. 

[the authority]

On 4/21/2023 at 12:54 PM, Beastfeast said:

With almost anything over $100, I’m getting more and more happy to send it to MCS and forgo eBay entirely. It’s still the place for selling lots and things in the $15-50 range, I think. 
 

however it does add to shipping costs a bit. 

I spoke with someone else who sells on MCS. I like them and frequently order books there. I’ve never sold through them. Do you sell on auction or BIN ? 

[GFlo]

You’re also forgetting about the income tax. Ebay reports earnings exceeding $600. 

[the authority]

On 4/21/2023 at 5:44 PM, GFlo said:

You’re also forgetting about the income tax. Ebay reports earnings exceeding $600. 

I never forget it. Just forgot to type it 😝 

[Beastfeast]

On 4/21/2023 at 2:59 PM, the authority said:

I spoke with someone else who sells on MCS. I like them and frequently order books there. I’ve never sold through them. Do you sell on auction or BIN ? 

I sell almost all my slabs there with sales from $100 up to 10k. I highly recommend that. Never sold raw. 
 

I’ve done a mix of BINs and auctions. Mixed results w the auctions but onesthat sold high more than make up the difference in disappointing results. 

Edited April 21, 2023 by Beastfeast

[Tec-Tac-Toe]

My future $0.50 per slab "profit" is now down to $0.40.

[Cman429]

Selling on eBay is becoming antiquated. The fees, the taxes, etc are too much. There’s been a huge surge in people selling on whatnot, IG & FB livestreams, & so forth and it’s only going to get bigger. Even if you get paid goods & services at first usually you get repeat customers where subsequent transactions are done f&f. Ebay still has by far the most eyeballs so it’ll always have lotsa sellers but eventually it’ll just be the casuals left and anyone trying to regularly move large amounts of product will move on to other outlets (at least until the clowns in congress figure out how to stick their nose in that too)

[kimik]

On 4/21/2023 at 12:21 AM, thehumantorch said:

You left our pressing costs for at least some people.  It gets much worse if you’re outside the US and exchange rates are a factor and shipping is high.   Also I was dinged by customs on me box of slabs.  All in it’s costing me close to $90 per book Canadian is I send in a box.  
 

At that cost I have to think about what I could sell a book for raw as opposed to graded.  And I have to think about risk of damage, small but real, and risk of making a mistake on grade l, and risk of a book dropping in value when it’s out for grading which has happened too often

It is interesting to see how much the modern game has changed the past year or so. While raw prices have been relatively stable on books at shows, the prices on slabs has cratered to the point that it is no longer worth submitting a lot of them even in 9.8. Looking at a lot of the modern keys/hot books I am pricing now for the Calgary Expo, they sell for enough raw that the profit margin is higher than getting them slabbed. I am curious how this impacts CGC long term - will submission rates drop to the point where they have to cut prices?

 

[onlyweaknesskryptonite]

On 4/22/2023 at 12:04 PM, kimik said:

will submission rates drop to the point where they have to cut prices?

We can only hope. 

[Poutine]

Considering how much getting a graded book is playing roulette on whether your book is damaged, it should be free at this point

[GeeksAreMyPeeps]

On 4/22/2023 at 1:04 PM, kimik said:

It is interesting to see how much the modern game has changed the past year or so. While raw prices have been relatively stable on books at shows, the prices on slabs has cratered to the point that it is no longer worth submitting a lot of them even in 9.8. Looking at a lot of the modern keys/hot books I am pricing now for the Calgary Expo, they sell for enough raw that the profit margin is higher than getting them slabbed. I am curious how this impacts CGC long term - will submission rates drop to the point where they have to cut prices?

 

Considering submission rates seem to have dropped (based on greatly reduced TAT) and they're raising prices, I imagine prices will continue to go up so income keeps up with expenses. You would think they'd give more time before the new prices go into effect if they're looking to boost submissions.

[justafan]

On 4/20/2023 at 11:56 PM, the authority said:

Looking at the current cost to grade, ship, and sell a modern comic got me wondering some things today. Where is my line in the sand where it isn’t cost effective to sell a modern book. The costs to grade, ship, and ship back a comic is roughly $30. If you sell on eBay, you’re going to pay 13% in fees for both the product price and the cost to ship. You also have to take into account the cost of the book. For this example, let’s say a raw book that $20 online plus tax and shipping might be worth $100 graded in a 9.8. Let’s use a 5% sales tax and $5 to get the book shipped.

 

Now our book cost us the following.

$20 comic

$10 shipping and sales tax 

$25 grading 

$5 shipping to and from CGC

$14 eBay fees 

for a total of roughly $74. 
 

You still have the investment of handling time and in most cases fuel. 

I’m aware that there are other ways to sell such as the boards, Facebook ,Instagram, etc. All of these ways are slightly riskier and more time is required in my experience. Time is something I’m lacking.

That leads us to a rough profit estimate of of $26. Even if you buy the book new off of the shelf, your cost drops $15 and you clear $41. This assumes every single book grades a 9.8 which is not a reasonable assumption imo. Then you have a federal tax on your earnings. You might set up at a show and save the eBay fees but then it becomes a job with overhead. How much is your time worth ?
 

I’m not knocking anyone or any business model. Just curious as to what others think about trying to sell graded moderns. So what purchase price vs sales price would you consider a book to be worth your time and effort ? Does it make more sense to sell raw ?

 

For me, when it was $14.40 to grade a modern and 10% to sell on eBay, this was a much easier thing to decide. That wasn’t very long ago.

 

 

For moderns that tend to be volatile in price it is much worse indeed.

For a single raw modern that needs a press now you're looking at 

$10 priority mail shipping to CGC (2-4 days)

Receiving/processing (7-14 days)

$15 pressing

$15 pressing fast track (7+ working days)

$9 Grading pre-screen for those that don't pass.

$25 Grading fee

$15 Grading fast track (10 working days)

$5 submission fee

Encapsulating/QC (5-7 days)

$15 FedEx return shipping (3-5 days)

Total Grading costs: $100 and a door to door turnaround time of 33 to 47 days for volatile moderns.  Minus any membership discounts or credits.

You can trim the costs of shipping by sending in multiple books or save on outbound shipping by dropping off at a show but those failed $9 grade pre-screens will eat up any savings.

 

At its cheapest you're looking at

Show drop off $0 (3-5 days)

Grade only $25 (20 days)

online processing fee $5

Encapsulation/ QC (5-7 days)

FedEx return shipping $15 (3-5 days)

 $45 and 26-30 days

Also, since eBay charges FVF on the taxed amount as well as an extra international fee for international sales the true fee is closer to 14%-16% per sale as Tnexus referred to.

 

 

 

[littledoom]

Two takeaways, everything balances out and selling is tuff!

[divad]

Or, "It's better to be lucky than good." 

[divad]

Seriously, I won't generally post any book for sale on eBay for less than $24, as it isn't worth the effort, or I'd rather keep it. And that price goes up periodically and soon.