Loose or detached centerfold 2 2

[Mokiguy]

I don't have the new CGC grading guide but have gotten fairly good at grading my own comics through other learning sources. But there are a few areas where I am not so sure of myself, and the centerfold is one of them. The Overstreet guide has the grade for a comic with a centerfold loose or detached only as high as 2.5 regardless of any other comic condition. At 3.0 to 4.5 it may only be detached at one staple, and at 5.0 and above it may be loose or slightly loose up to 6.5, but not detached. So my question is  ...... is the CGC guide as firm on the centerfold grades as the Overstreet guide, or is there wiggle room depending on the condition of the rest of the comic? Thanks ........

Edited May 23, 2023 by Mokiguy

[theCapraAegagrus]

On 5/23/2023 at 9:35 AM, Mokiguy said:

I don't have the new CGC grading guide but have gotten fairly good at grading my own comics through other learning sources. But there are a few areas where I am not so sure of myself, and the centerfold is one of them. The Overstreet guide has the grade for a comic with a centerfold loose or detached only as high as 2.5 regardless of any other comic condition. At 3.0 to 4.5 it may only be detached at one staple, and at 5.0 and above it may be loose or slightly loose up to 6.5, but not detached. So my question is  ...... is the CGC guide as firm on the centerfold grades as the Overstreet guide, or is there wiggle room depending on the condition of the rest of the comic? Thanks ........

The thing with CGC is; If it's "otherwise high-grade", they'll give you a Qualified label. So their standards are not as cut-and-dry as OSGG.

[Mokiguy]

On 5/23/2023 at 6:39 AM, theCapraAegagrus said:

The thing with CGC is; If it's "otherwise high-grade", they'll give you a Qualified label. So their standards are not as cut-and-dry as OSGG.

Yes, I understand that, but I only collect raw books for my own satisfaction, and like to grade them myself, so obviously I wouldn't give myself a "qualified" label. But what I was wondering is what the CGC guide says about loose or detached centerfolds, or do they only address it the same way you mentioned and don't really clarify it for a home grader/collector.

 

[zzutak]

A comic that is near-perfect to pristine (aside from a completely detached centerfold) would be eligible for a CGC Universal Grade of 6.5 or 7.0.  The receipts:

[Cman429]

I sent a stack of Spawn 1s into Todd’s signing and unfortunately one with the centerfold missing got mixed in. Came back a 7.5 yellow label (no qualification). So I assume that’s the “missing centerfold” version of a 9.8

[Mokiguy]

On 5/23/2023 at 7:14 AM, zzutak said:

A comic that is near-perfect to pristine (aside from a completely detached centerfold) would be eligible for a CGC Universal Grade of 6.5 or 7.0.  The receipts:

Thanks, that's a very good and interesting answer to my question, but unfortunately now creates another question. What would the grade have been sans the detached centerfold? 9.0, 9.2, 9.6, 9.8 ......? How much did the detached centerfold actually lower the grade? Perhaps my original question will not be so easily answered. As you said "a comic near perfect" seems to have lowered 5 or more grades. Obviously though there was enough room starting out at 9.0 and above. But what about a comic that would grade say 6.0 without a detached centerfold. Do you think that there would be the same 5 or more grade reduction?

[zzutak]

On 5/23/2023 at 7:41 AM, Mokiguy said:

But what about a comic that would grade say 6.0 without a detached centerfold. Do you think that there would be the same 5 or more grade reduction?

Of course not.  For any specific blemish/defect, the more perfect the book, the greater the deduction.  A book that's "otherwise 2.0, aside from a detached centerfold" would still be 2.0 if one accounts for the detached centerfold.

Cman429's observation is correct:  CGC has awarded grades as high as 8.5 for specimens with detached centerfolds.  However, there are only a few such examples compared to the 6.5/7.0 examples (see below).  The problem I personally have is this: are these 7.5 (and higher) grades "correct", or are they due to a misinterpretation/misapplication of CGC's grading standard by a less-than-perfect grader?   

[Axe Elf]

On 5/23/2023 at 8:35 AM, Mokiguy said:

is there wiggle room depending on the condition of the rest of the comic?

If there's wiggle room, the staples are loose.

[comicginger1789]

I will also throw in there that I doubt a modern comics gets the same grade leniency as a Silver or Golden Age book (of which all of the examples are). I feel like if I submitted a Spawn #1 with a detached centrefold, they would not be so kind and the grade would be in the 4-5 range at best. I could be wrong....perhaps this warrants experimentation from a Youtuber looking for some content??

[marvelmaniac]

Comic books are graded by their "overall" condition, not just one defect, although, one significant defect on a higher grade book could significantly lower the grade, by how much?, This is where the Gray areas of grading come in since there is no definitive rules or grade detractor charts to say...A book graded at VF 8.0 which has a loose  centerfold will drop by this many points on the grading scale, does it drop to a FN/VF 7.0, FN 6.0, VG/FN 5.0, impossible to tell, all depends on the day of the week, phase of the moon, planet alignment and what kind of day the grader is having.

When I graded/cataloged/photographed my 2000 books back in 2015, books with issues like this were cataloged/graded with the defect with a notation of what the grade would have been without the additional defect, IE: the book is a VF 8.0 with a loose/detached centerfold, If it were only loose/detached at one staple I would probably drop the grade to a FN 6.0 with a notation "book would have been a VF 8.0 except for (add additional defect here).

If you look closely at the grading standards you will see wording that is not fully defined, this is a discussion we have had numerous times on how words are perceived and defined, even looking up the correct definition, some of these words mean the same thing.

FN/VF 7.0 - VF 8.0 - Centerfold is mostly secure.

VG/FN 5.0 - FN 6.0 - Centerfold may be loose.

GD/VG 3.0 - VG 4.0 - Centerfold may be loose or detached at one staple.

FR/GD 1.5 - GD 2.0 - Centerfold may be loose or detached.

VG 4.0 - Cover shows moderate to significant wear, and may be loose but not completely detached. 

GD/VG 3.0 - Cover shows significant wear and may be loose or even detached at one staple.

GD 2.0 - Cover shows significant wear and may even be detached. 

[rjpb]

Sorry, it's just absurd to think that a detached centerfold automatically knocks a book down to 2.5 at best. Clearly CGC doesn't agree, and regardless of what OSPG guidelines indicate, I don't think any experienced seller has followed them that stringently. 

Detached centerfolds should always be disclosed though, as for some collectors it's a deal breaking flaw (as are a lot of flaws in given grades where they are "acceptable" for the grade, but perhaps not for the individual collector).

[Mokiguy]

On 5/23/2023 at 9:59 AM, marvelmaniac said:

books with issues like this were cataloged/graded with the defect with a notation of what the grade would have been without the additional defect, IE: the book is a VF 8.0 with a loose/detached centerfold, If it were only loose/detached at one staple I would probably drop the grade to a FN 6.0 with a notation "book would have been a VF 8.0 except for (add additional defect here).

That's very good idea. Since I am doing my own grading, bagging, boarding and cataloging for my own satisfaction and not to resell, at least not for now, maybe never .......... Having that additional grade with the notation on those books would serve me well if things changed and I ever did want to sell them in the future. 

[marvelmaniac]

On 5/23/2023 at 6:49 PM, Mokiguy said:

That's very good idea. Since I am doing my own grading, bagging, boarding and cataloging for my own satisfaction and not to resell, at least not for now, maybe never .......... Having that additional grade with the notation on those books would serve me well if things changed and I ever did want to sell them in the future. 

And is is always a great reference point should you need to go back and look at a later date. 

I did mine using "Compose" in Yahoo Mail, I do not/did not have access to Microsoft Word or Excel, the list of graded books are now saved as a PDF, 42 pages long, along with the 2000 photo's, they are backed up on 2 separate Flashdrives.

It took me over 6 month's, working on this project almost every night.

Good Luck and Have Fun!!!