Seller sold an incomplete book to me - How would you respond? 10 10

[Homeboy32]

Buyer is entitled to a 100% refund without a doubt. This is a cut and dry as it gets. Buyer SPECIFICALLY asked if the book was complete so he knew what to look for. Seller was knowingly misleading. IF the seller did make an “honest mistake” and didn’t know, then it’s on the seller to accept the book back and learn from HIS mistake. The buyer did not make a mistake. A lie is a lie is a lie 30 days or 60 days from now. And no, I don’t think there’s some nefarious plot by CGC to cut the centerfold. I hope to never but a comic from anyone on here that thinks the buyer bears responsibility. Is it really too much to ask for people to just be honest now a days?

 The guy bought a comic off eBay, not sign a piece treaty between Russia and Ukraine. Shouldn’t have to worry about a dishonest seller.

Edited May 24, 2023 by Homeboy32

[shadroch]

On 5/23/2023 at 5:03 PM, CAHokie said:

I don’t understand the question in relation to my statement.  
 

Would I refund it as the seller or as the middle man? I admit, I am unfamiliar with how the cosigning business works so the best I can say is I don’t know.  
 

Mistakes happen, but on this one I would be more mad at myself than the seller. I would be thinking, why….didn’t…I … check??!  I would most likely just keep the book and get pissed off whenever I saw it. It would remind me to check next time though.

If the book was on consignment and you had already paid the consigner, would you still give a refund?  

[ADAMANTIUM]

On 5/23/2023 at 8:27 PM, Homeboy32 said:

Seller is entitled to a 100% without a doubt. This is a cut and dry as it gets. Buyer SPECIFICALLY asked if the book was complete so he knew what to look for. Seller was knowingly misleading. IF the seller did make an “honest mistake” and didn’t know, then it’s on the seller to accept the book back and learn from HIS mistake. The buyer did not make a mistake. A lie is a lie is a lie 30 days or 60 days from now. And no, I don’t think there’s some nefarious plot by CGC to cut the centerfold. I hope to never but a comic from anyone on here that thinks the buyer bears responsibility. Is it really too much to ask for people to just be honest now a days?

Why wasn't the buyer "honest" within the allotted time for a return?

[ADAMANTIUM]

On 5/23/2023 at 8:29 PM, ADAMANTIUM said:

Why wasn't the buyer "honest" within the allotted time for a return?

 

Edited May 24, 2023 by ADAMANTIUM

[CAHokie]

On 5/23/2023 at 9:29 PM, shadroch said:

If the book was on consignment and you had already paid the consigner, would you still give a refund?  

Offer to refund the difference between sell price and cosigner fees? Again, I don’t know because I know nothing about using one 

[shadroch]

On 5/23/2023 at 5:06 PM, FlyingDonut said:

This absolutely 100% IS NOT GOING TO HAPPEN.

OP claims it is.    I don't believe they will, and I'd love to see the email that says they will. I'll be happy to apologize if the email exists.  I'm so glad I do all my selling thru MCS and no longer have to deal with Ebay buyers.

[Lightning55]

On 5/23/2023 at 9:35 PM, CAHokie said:

Offer to refund the difference between sell price and cosigner fees? Again, I don’t know because I know nothing about using one 

I believe it is being posited that the seller may have sold it AS a consignment from a third party, and has paid that third party, now that it sold.  If he refunds, he has to chase down the third party to get HIS money back, with no marketplace to help on that.  All this being a "for instance" or "what if".

[ADAMANTIUM]

Again it's a tough decision , seller would probably do what's asked, but at this point no one is owed anything. Truly a live and Learn for all involved. I'll take my snottiness elsewhere.

Just hope this hasn't hurt the pride of those sharing, cause it "could" be considered either way on an individual basis, no blanket statement.

 

Edited May 24, 2023 by ADAMANTIUM

[THE_BEYONDER]

On 5/23/2023 at 9:46 PM, ADAMANTIUM said:

Again it's a tough decision , seller would probably do what's asked, but at this point no one is owed anything. Truly a live and Learn for all involved. I'll take my snottiness elsewhere.

Just hope this hasn't hurt the pride of those sharing, cause it "could" be considered either way on an individual basis, no blanket statement.

 

So.....you’re on the fence?

[ADAMANTIUM]

On 5/23/2023 at 9:11 PM, THE_BEYONDER said:

So.....you’re on the fence?

I'm not in the situation nor does it involve me 😂, but I know what's expected! We'll see how it plays out 

I know what I'd do and have stated. Whether it's fair for all parties when its a no win situation wouldn't be the point of the thread.

 

[Nick Furious]

On 5/23/2023 at 8:29 PM, shadroch said:

If the book was on consignment and you had already paid the consigner, would you still give a refund?  

Good point.  There has to be a point where a seller is free to use the sale proceeds without fear of having to return them to the buyer.  Ebay says that point is 30 days.  Anyone who feels this is not enough time should find another platform that puts that timeframe out longer.  Not sure there is one, as I think most reasonable people agree that 30 days is long enough.  Most people I've heard from agree that Ebay's TOS are very generously biased towards buyers.  Many sellers have left Ebay because they feel TOS are not fair to sellers.  Buyers are free to do the same thing if they really feel that Ebay's TOS are not good enough for them.  

Edited May 24, 2023 by Nick Furious

[shadroch]

Some simple rules to avoid this sort of thing.

1) Examine every book you buy

2) Communicate.  If you know you are sending a book to CGC, tell the seller and ask if he will stand by his description.  That way, you aren't blindsiding him well after the transaction. 

 

[Lightning55]

This feels like a Friday thread.  We need @kav1 and @Buzzetta to weigh in.

[THE_BEYONDER]

[ADAMANTIUM]

Ibtl

[onlyweaknesskryptonite]

[THE_BEYONDER]

[metallickyrulz1]

I bought a book from a very large comic website that most here probably know. It was a flash 123 and this was early in my comic collecting days. I sent it to cgc and it came back restored with slight amateur color touch. Not exactly an apple-to-apples comparison with the buyer here not properly inspecting their book, but in my case, this reputable seller offered a full refund on the restored book as they sold it to me as unrestored. I ate the CGC and shipping costs, which some have suggested here is what they consider a fair outcome. I felt this was a fair enough outcome for me, and feel the seller was as accommodating as they could be. I respected their customer service as they took ownership for not catching the restoration. I think them paying the cgc fees is a tough ask from a buyer’s perspective. I would’ve loved if they accommodated, but they sold me a raw book and I decided to get it graded. Not sure what would have been the “morally right” outcome on the cgc costs, but I was just happy to get out of the book cost.

[jimjum12]

On 5/23/2023 at 4:10 PM, rjpb said:

Selling an incomplete book as complete is on the seller. Always check when book arrives, even from reputable dealers. I ended up returning around 2% of all raw books I buy due to missing centerfolds, pages, or clipped out coupons. People miss things. 

Sending an incomplete book off to CGC without double checking it is on you. If you were worried about damaging the book before sending it in, you are effectively paying CGC to check if it is complete for you. 

I can't think of too many books that would only take a 25% hit in value if missing a centerfold. Maybe a few low grade classic cover books, where the value is in the cover, but generally only offering 25% refund due to incompleteness is cheap, assuming the seller believes the mistake could have been made. 

If he gets to keep $100 selling an incomplete copy of what would otherwise be a $400 book, he should be happy. More than a few times when I've told the seller that a book I paid $100 or less for was incomplete, they've refunded fully and told me to keep it, even once when I told the buyer, I'd be happy with just getting half back. 

To the O.P.

This seller is trying to keep $300 of the sale with buyer keeping the book. One thing about eBay, even though they don't post this anymore.... "Caveat Emptor", which is "buyer beware" if I remember correctly. This is still very much applicable with eBay. Paying attention to the terms of return is very important, especially with vintage comics. 

   These are an example of my terms, developed over time to protect MYSELF from unscrupulous buyers out to cornswaggle me.

 

4)ALL books may be returned in SAME condition within a 2 WEEK period after receipt for ANY reason for full refund plus shipping....return shipping will be your responsibility, unless I missed a major flaw. 

Resto found within 3 months is eligible for a refund, after that, compensation will be made through inventory credit.

5)....I DO NOT REFUND SLABBING FEES. ...as the decision to slab is yours. Slabs are USED, may be scratched or blemished. Any reslabbing is the buyer's responsibility.

 

There are Dealers, such as Bob Storms and Dale Roberts, who provide lifetime return guarantees. Those are exemplary guarantees, and they stand behind them. I don't go that far because I'm not trying to run an escrow service designed to guarantee that someone profits at my expense. I plan on spending that money. That's why I sell books. Therefore, I have a point where I'm washing my hands of it. It becomes YOUR puppy dog. Personally, I would provide you a full refund on the book in your case, but slabbing would be on you. 

 My advice is to become more discriminating with your choice of sellers if buying raw. Some of them will bone you in a blue second. I'm with the others, you should out this guy if he doesn't stand up. If you used Paypal, you may have up to 6 months to force a full refund, and often you can also keep the book. GOD BLESS...

-jimbo(a friend of jesus)

[Buzzetta]

On 5/23/2023 at 10:48 PM, Lightning55 said:

This feels like a Friday thread.  We need  @Buzzetta to weigh in.

I read some of this on the way home.  I’m reading more on the way to work. 
 

The analogies I’m reading here are unremarkable since they try to draw comparisons to products outside of eBay’s jurisdiction where they they are not comics.

@O Doyle Rules

1 - eBay trying to “work with you” after the return window has closed is probably amounting to a lot of time spent on hold while a CSR takes a personal phone call.  They really are not under any obligation to do anything nor should they at this point.  This is the most troubling point as I still have a complaint over a 2007 purchase. 

2 - Seller should refund the book so long as he gets the book back. 

3 - Buyer eats the shipping and grading fees.

4 - Buyer promises his neighbors never to buy a Tesla.

 

When I bought a book from a well known dealer at a show that came back with a micro trim they did the above.  When I was sold a book by heritage that also came back with a micro trim they did the above.

I’m a nice guy so I returned the books back slabbed to both the dealer and Heritage.

”Which I didn’t have to do” but felt there was nothing to gain by removing them from the slab. 
 

Edited May 24, 2023 by Buzzetta