Is the writer’s strike going to break the back of SDCC? 3 3

[Robot Man]

On 9/12/2023 at 6:13 AM, the blob said:

Not long ago at NYCC it was like $30-35 a day and there was a free kids day. Now it is $73 a day, but I guess NYCC is not the spectacle that SDCC is. At $73 it hardly seems worth it for buying comics (which is why I have always gone for free). I sort of regret not going to SDCC a few years back when my friend at a studio offered (but he wasn't offering to fly me out, just VIP passes and sleeping on the couch at his hotel suite), but financially, at the time I could not justify the airfare and other expenses. He doesn't have that position anymore, so that will probably never happen again.

 

I have never been to NYCC so I can’t say much about it. Although I have heard it was a very large show. There was a show recently probably 20 minutes from my house. There were only two local vintage comic dealers there and they wanted $45. a day. I just passed.

Now if you want cray cray, a girl I work with paid $450. for “cheap seats” for a Taylor Swift concert. Taylor Swift???

No wonder so many people are homeless these days…

[the blob]

On 9/12/2023 at 10:01 AM, Robot Man said:

I have never been to NYCC so I can’t say much about it. Although I have heard it was a very large show. There was a show recently probably 20 minutes from my house. There were only two local vintage comic dealers there and they wanted $45. a day. I just passed.

Now if you want cray cray, a girl I work with paid $450. for “cheap seats” for a Taylor Swift concert. Taylor Swift???

No wonder so many people are homeless these days…

I don't know what the current show is. It is pretty big, but I don't think it is anywhere near the hollywood event that SDCC is. But honestly, when we went about 6 or 7 years ago I took a lot of my son's friends because I had a lot of passes and there was a TON of free stuff. My son took home about $200 worth of free books he was actually interested in, they were giving away Minecraft and all sorts of fantasy books. There was a BIG publisher contingent there. On another day he took home about $200 worth of legos and toys. Not to mention all the free comics and what not I grabbed. So, from a "free stuff" perspective it might have once been worth the price of admission. I don't think I have gone since 2018, so I have no idea what it is like now. 

[the blob]

On 9/12/2023 at 10:01 AM, Robot Man said:

I have never been to NYCC so I can’t say much about it. Although I have heard it was a very large show. There was a show recently probably 20 minutes from my house. There were only two local vintage comic dealers there and they wanted $45. a day. I just passed.

Now if you want cray cray, a girl I work with paid $450. for “cheap seats” for a Taylor Swift concert. Taylor Swift???

No wonder so many people are homeless these days…

I get it, I think the complete nosebleed seats we got to see The Cure were like $120 a pop. I'd love to see Suicidal Tendencies in October, those tickets are only $55 after fees, but in NYC they are playing in what might wind up being a 3,000 person capacity mosh pit and I am in my 50s and recovering from an achilles tear, I don't think I can do it. Suddenly in my old age, when I am least able to handle the discomfort, I want to see live music before these guys die. 

[Robot Man]

On 9/12/2023 at 7:46 AM, the blob said:

I get it, I think the complete nosebleed seats we got to see The Cure were like $120 a pop. I'd love to see Suicidal Tendencies in October, those tickets are only $55 after fees, but in NYC they are playing in what might wind up being a 3,000 person capacity mosh pit and I am in my 50s and recovering from an achilles tear, I don't think I can do it. Suddenly in my old age, when I am least able to handle the discomfort, I want to see live music before these guys die. 

By all means do it. My musical influences are dropping like flies. I went to a lot of punk shows in the LA area when I was in my mid ‘30’s. Even then, I stayed away from the mosh pits. Always thought it was kind of stupid. I wouldn’t even think of going to those shows now.

My biggest loss in the past couple years was Jeff Beck. Luckily, I saw him several times in his prime. At this point, as long as it isn’t Clapton, Page or Richards, I can deal with it. 

[Pixx_L]

On 9/12/2023 at 9:07 AM, the blob said:

Doesn't the venue and staffing the venue cost a tremendous amount? Both SD and NYCC are in high wage spots. 

Sure both SD and NYCC are high cost areas (though less so in San Diego). But when attendance for SDCC is pushing towards 150k the rationales of 'good for them for making as much as they can - they might be out of business' or 'these events shouldn't be for the poors' become absurd. The economy of scale allows for the event to both make money and be cheap to enter, especially since SDCC is in part subsidized as a de facto Hollywood red carpet event. Some may want to pretend otherwise but it's not an either or situation, and the example of Gamescom in Germany is a precedent for how SDCC or similarly large American conventions could function (and indeed did function for most of my childhood and teenage years). Having a low entry price also allows for more money to obviously be spent inside the walls of the convention rather than on the ticket price. Pretending a high entry price is a good filter to excluding people because they may not be the type to drop $500+ on a single grail comic book or w/e the rationale is self-defeatingly stupid. Vendors should aspire to have as much traffic and business as possible at various price points - not less.

Tokyo Game Show is another counter example to the status quo of American Convention pricing. Over 200k people attend (a little less recently due to Covid). Is Tokyo not one of the most expensive cities in the world? Their ticket price this past year was 2,300 Yen or about $15 bucks. A better world for attendees of large conventions is certainly possible - even if unimaginable within the US.

 

Edited September 29, 2023 by Pixx_L

[the blob]

On 9/28/2023 at 8:12 PM, Pixx_L said:

Sure both SD and NYCC are high cost areas (though less so in San Diego). But when attendance for SDCC is pushing towards 150k the rationales of 'good for them for making as much as they can - they might be out of business' or 'these events shouldn't be for the poors' become absurd. The economy of scale allows for the event to both make money and be cheap to enter, especially since SDCC is in part subsidized as a de facto Hollywood red carpet event. Some may want to pretend otherwise but it's not an either or situation, and the example of Gamescom in Germany is a precedent for how SDCC or similarly large American conventions could function (and indeed did function for most of my childhood and teenage years). Having a low entry price also allows for more money to obviously be spent inside the walls of the convention rather than on the ticket price. Pretending a high entry price is a good filter to excluding people because they may not be the type to drop $500+ on a single grail comic book or w/e the rationale is self-defeatingly stupid. Vendors should aspire to have as much traffic and business as possible at various price points - not less.

Tokyo Game Show is another counter example to the status quo of American Convention pricing. Over 200k people attend (a little less recently due to Covid). Is Tokyo not one of the most expensive cities in the world? Their ticket price this past year was 2,300 Yen or about $15 bucks. A better world for attendees of large conventions is certainly possible - even if unimaginable within the US.

 

I don't think $15 is realistic. Small local cons in NYC were charging $15 a day 20 years ago. Tokyo is expensive, but I don't think union laborers at that convention center make $50 an hour like at Javitz, there are probably a huge number of volunteers working the show, Japanese baseball fans clean up the stadium after the game, it's a different world there in terms of communal actions (they also charge $14 extra for co-splay privileges). With that said, not that long ago NYCC was $35 a day. I am not sure why it has more than doubled. Javitz does exist to try to make revenue for the State of New York, so they're going to charge as much as they can to the convention who is going to pass along the cost. Pre-covid Javits made a modest profit. 

 

[KingOfRulers]

On 9/28/2023 at 11:11 PM, the blob said:

I don't think $15 is realistic. Small local cons in NYC were charging $15 a day 20 years ago. Tokyo is expensive, but I don't think union laborers at that convention center make $50 an hour like at Javitz, there are probably a huge number of volunteers working the show, Japanese baseball fans clean up the stadium after the game, it's a different world there in terms of communal actions (they also charge $14 extra for co-splay privileges). With that said, not that long ago NYCC was $35 a day. I am not sure why it has more than doubled. Javitz does exist to try to make revenue for the State of New York, so they're going to charge as much as they can to the convention who is going to pass along the cost. Pre-covid Javits made a modest profit. 

 

The union labor there might be making more than $50/hour for a significant amount of the billing due to NYCC being held on Saturday/Sunday, where union labor probably makes 2x wages.

I remember when I ran San Francisco Comic Con, as we were on a weekend and a holiday (Labor Day weekend), the union goons were making 4x wage. We were being forced to pay each of those union meatheads $202/hour to move a dealer's inventory 100 feet, which was a service that neither us or the dealers wanted in the first place.

[the blob]

On 9/29/2023 at 10:11 AM, KingOfRulers said:

The union labor there might be making more than $50/hour for a significant amount of the billing due to NYCC being held on Saturday/Sunday, where union labor probably makes 2x wages.

I remember when I ran San Francisco Comic Con, as we were on a weekend and a holiday (Labor Day weekend), the union goons were making 4x wage. We were being forced to pay each of those union meatheads $202/hour to move a dealer's inventory 100 feet, which was a service that neither us or the dealers wanted in the first place.

hey hey, we don't need to be calling folks goons, some of my best friends are goons

 

[Eclipse]

On 9/29/2023 at 10:11 AM, KingOfRulers said:

The union labor there might be making more than $50/hour for a significant amount of the billing due to NYCC being held on Saturday/Sunday, where union labor probably makes 2x wages.

I remember when I ran San Francisco Comic Con, as we were on a weekend and a holiday (Labor Day weekend), the union goons were making 4x wage. We were being forced to pay each of those union meatheads $202/hour to move a dealer's inventory 100 feet, which was a service that neither us or the dealers wanted in the first place.

Union goons? Really? And i doubt they were making 4x wage, maybe time and a half and then double time for the holiday and 7th day.

[Robot Man]

On 9/29/2023 at 7:11 AM, KingOfRulers said:

The union labor there might be making more than $50/hour for a significant amount of the billing due to NYCC being held on Saturday/Sunday, where union labor probably makes 2x wages.

I remember when I ran San Francisco Comic Con, as we were on a weekend and a holiday (Labor Day weekend), the union goons were making 4x wage. We were being forced to pay each of those union meatheads $202/hour to move a dealer's inventory 100 feet, which was a service that neither us or the dealers wanted in the first place.

[KingOfRulers]

On 9/30/2023 at 9:41 AM, Eclipse said:

Union goons? Really? And i doubt they were making 4x wage, maybe time and a half and then double time for the holiday and 7th day.

I don't remember the specifics of how the math got there (this was 7 years ago). I simply remember the $202/hour price tag for unskilled, loading dock Teamster labor. If you talked to them in person, you'd also get goon vibe.

[Eclipse]

On 9/30/2023 at 4:35 PM, KingOfRulers said:

I don't remember the specifics of how the math got there (this was 7 years ago). I simply remember the $202/hour price tag for unskilled, loading dock Teamster labor. If you talked to them in person, you'd also get goon vibe.

And if it was the weekend they were probably working there sixth or seventh day in a row (just to go back monday starting the beginning of the week on their 8th day) and never get to see their families. So yeah, the $202/hour is unjustified. It should actually be more.