2023 CGC Grading Contest Summer Edition (#7) Round 3 9 9

[AJD]

On 8/2/2023 at 11:39 AM, zzutak said:

And it just happens to be exactly the same distance from the spine as this front cover bundling divot. 

That's not a divot, it's a "grade hole". It makes the book grade better.

[scburdet]

To the bitter end I will give my notes. This time I didn't get to type up my illegible notes until tonight, so my eval notes my pick vs. what was revealed. I picked out several defects that either aren't in the notes or aren't actually present. Something masquerading as a defect.

[Withering Wind]

On 8/1/2023 at 6:39 PM, zzutak said:

And it just happens to be exactly the same distance from the spine as this front cover bundling divot. 

I took those to be gripper holes/tears from the production process.  

[zzutak]

On 8/1/2023 at 6:43 PM, scburdet said:

Something masquerading as a defect.

No.  Not something masquerading as a defect but, rather, actual blemishes/flaws that were either missed, ignored, or heavily discounted.  In my opinion, the grading on this group was way too soft. 

Edited August 2, 2023 by zzutak

[zzutak]

On 8/1/2023 at 6:45 PM, Withering Wind said:

I took those to be gripper holes/tears from the production process.  

Interesting.  I've never seen gripper holes on a cover before.  Ya learn something new every day. 

[scburdet]

On 8/1/2023 at 10:48 PM, zzutak said:

too soft

As my brief eval on the FF stated, I really struggle with this one b/c almost every copy I see of this book looks unattractive. It's like the presses were just having the longest bad stretch in comics history.

[AJD]

On 8/2/2023 at 11:51 AM, zzutak said:

Interesting.  I've never seen gripper holes on a cover before.  Ya learn something new every day. 

But they aren't - the spacing isn't even (yes, I measured them   ). And I'm not sure you would see them on cover stock in any case because I don't think the covers are printed the same way as the pages.

[flashlites]

On 8/1/2023 at 8:39 PM, zzutak said:

And it just happens to be exactly the same distance from the spine as this front cover bundling divot. 

I hit this book hard for this defect. It seemed to be a cut through the book. An otherwise great book I ended at a 7.5. Could not get to the 8 range with that kind of slice.

[scburdet]

On 8/1/2023 at 10:55 PM, AJD said:

covers

I wrote gripper holes off. Do they even show up that often on square bound books? I have seen gripper holes line up with a similar hole on a cover though

[skypinkblu]

On 8/1/2023 at 9:55 PM, AJD said:

But they aren't - the spacing isn't even (yes, I measured them   ). And I'm not sure you would see them on cover stock in any case because I don't think the covers are printed the same way as the pages.

That's why I think it's a worm (or as it is now thought...beetle) hole, the larvae eat through the book, but they don't have a ruler, so it's not always even...and if they don't get all the way through, sometimes there is a stain at the other side, because apparently they slobber while they eat.

I am not the most knowledgeable collector on the planet, nor even close, but I majored in low grade delicate specimens for years;)

[paqart]

On 8/1/2023 at 11:28 PM, skypinkblu said:

That's why I think it's a worm (or as it is now thought...beetle) hole, the larvae eat through the book, but they don't have a ruler, so it's not always even...and if they don't get all the way through, sometimes there is a stain at the other side, because apparently they slobber while they eat.

I am not the most knowledgeable collector on the planet, nor even close, but I majored in low grade delicate specimens for years;)

To me it looks like it was made by the thin twine sometimes used to bundle these back then. By the time I worked in a comic store in the 1970's everything came in two nice stacks in a box with a divider between the stacks. About a decade earlier, as I understand it, they were treated like newspapers.

[Point Five]

On 8/1/2023 at 9:55 PM, flashlites said:

I hit this book hard for this defect. It seemed to be a cut through the book. An otherwise great book I ended at a 7.5. Could not get to the 8 range with that kind of slice.

Yes to all this. And even as I chose 7.5, I was confident it would be turn out to be one of those pretend-it’s-not-there defects and would sink me. Not disappointed.   8.5, sheesh!

I tanked hardest on the Motion Picture book though. The bottom left corner looked creased and rumpled, but at 7.0 it obviously can’t be.  

 

[zzutak]

On 8/1/2023 at 8:47 PM, Point Five said:

I tanked hardest on the Motion Picture book though. The bottom left corner looked creased and rumpled, but at 7.0 it obviously can’t be.  

It is creased ...... and with a vertical tear to boot!  Plus, you cannot get a horizontal crease at this location without also creating a split along the spine.  7.0 FN/VF is my personal sweet spot.  This is no 7.0. 

[skypinkblu]

On 8/1/2023 at 11:37 PM, paqart said:

To me it looks like it was made by the thin twine sometimes used to bundle these back then. By the time I worked in a comic store in the 1970's everything came in two nice stacks in a box with a divider between the stacks. About a decade earlier, as I understand it, they were treated like newspapers.

I saw a lot of those bundles in person when Bakerstowne was selling the books  from an old distributor's warehouse on eBay. The twine cut into both the top and the bottom and the sides, especially the top and bottom books. It was almost always in the middle of the book, not one place near the edge. If you look carefully, it looks like there is more than one hole at the top edge...at least to my eyes, also it caused a crunch, not a hole like this. At one time I had boxes of those books in my garage (instead of my car;)

Edited August 2, 2023 by skypinkblu

[skypinkblu]

On 8/2/2023 at 12:01 AM, zzutak said:

It is creased ...... and with a vertical tear to boot!  Plus, you cannot get a horizontal crease at this location without also creating a split along the spine.  7.0 FN/VF is my personal sweet spot.  This is no 7.0. 

Thanks...that's what I thought, I did a search to see if those lines were part of the art or creases...I think those are 2 vertical tears from the bottom as well. 

[paqart]

On 8/2/2023 at 12:01 AM, zzutak said:

It is creased ...... and with a vertical tear to boot!  Plus, you cannot get a horizontal crease at this location without also creating a split along the spine.  7.0 FN/VF is my personal sweet spot.  This is no 7.0. 

My opinion: the hardest part of this contest is calibration for how different CGC graders will grade these. I did pretty well this round by going with the overall impression, without diving too deeply into defects. When I did that in previous rounds, I consistently undergraded. This time, I figured the best way to calibrate to CGC was to look at the overall appeal at first glance and stick with that. It worked pretty well, except for the war comic. That one got an extra bump because it reminded me of the Thing from round 2, which I thought was overgraded and should have been a 4.

[paqart]

On 8/2/2023 at 12:03 AM, skypinkblu said:

I saw a lot of those bundles in person when Bakerstowne was selling the books  from an old distributor's warehouse on eBay. The twine cut into both the top and the bottom and the sides, especially the top and bottom books. It was almost always in the middle of the book, not one place near the edge. If you look carefully, it looks like there is more than one hole at the top edge...at least to my eyes, also it caused a crunch, not a hole like this. At one time I had boxes of those books in my garage (instead of my car;)

I think you're right most of the time, but it seems to me I've seen one edge or the other off-center because of the way someone carried it. As I recall, the vertical and horizontal twine crossed in the center, so you had ten choices how to carry it. Center front, center back, top center front, bottom center front, right center front, left center front, or the same on the back. If someone grabbed the bundle by the front or back top section of twine, it could tilt to the side due to the weight of the bundle and cause a gouge like this. Make sense?

[zzutak]

This is what a CGC 7.0 looked like seven years ago:

[skypinkblu]

On 8/2/2023 at 12:09 AM, paqart said:

If someone grabbed the bundle by the front or back top section of twine, it could tilt to the side due to the weight of the bundle and cause a gouge like this. Make sense?

I just think it looks like bug/worm damage, there is no smushing or crunching...those bundle tears never looked that neat to me, but again, I'm no expert on anything...just my opinion.

[paqart]

On 8/2/2023 at 12:46 AM, skypinkblu said:

I just think it looks like bug/worm damage, there is no smushing or crunching...those bundle tears never looked that neat to me, but again, I'm no expert on anything...just my opinion.

I don't see worm damage often, but when I do, it never looks like this. The worm "paths" are always numerous, never just one or two, the paper is always brittle, and the shapes twist and turn in smooth curves. Not saying you're wrong, but it doesn't look right to me.