Stan, Jack, and Steve - The 1960's (1964) The Slow Build 5 5

[Steven Valdez]

On 9/15/2023 at 9:29 AM, shadroch said:

Kirby, Romita, and Buscema worked from home, but Stan stayed home to waste time and goof off. . 

I don't think that's entirely correct. Stan spent a lot of time driving to and from the golf course in his Roll Royce. That took a lot of initiative, talent and effort.

[shadroch]

Who drives their own Rolls Royce?  Maybe that's how he discovered House Roy and the other Youngins he brought in.  I heard Stan didn't play golf; he'd join in on the 18th hole and hog the spotlight.

Edited September 16, 2023 by shadroch

[shadroch]

I don't know where Kirby's  $20,000 a year salary information comes from, but that was a fortune compared to today's artists. 

In comparison, the average major league ballplayer made $19,000 in 1967, and half of the legendary 1969 Mets made under $20,000, with Nolan Ryan making $12,000. 

The average American family had an income of about $7500.  A new Ford Mustang-one of the most desirable cars of 1968- was $2200.  Kirby could have bought almost ten new cars a year ,if he chose.  He could have bought two season tickets to the Mets for under $1,000. 

Kirby, and all the Marvel artists were well paid for the time. Kirby lived in an upper middle class neighborhood and made twice as much as most of his neighbors.  Romita lived a few towns over, in one of the biggest houses in Floral Park. Buscema seemed to have two residents, including a house on Eastern Long Island East End. 

 

Edited September 16, 2023 by shadroch

[Prince Namor]

All you had to do was work 8-10 hours a day, seven days a week, 365 days a year. 

[Prince Namor]

ON NEWSSTANDS FEBRUARY 1964

Journey Into Mystery #103 - Written by: Stan Lee (Master of Fantasy)  Illustrated by Jack Kirby (Master of Picto-Drama)  Inked by: Chic Stone   Lettering by: S. Rosen

Cover by Jack Kirby (inks by George Roussos)

And thank goodness Kirby DID work that much or else we'd have been stuck with what Thor had become after he left. Reading those issues, it's clear that Lee had no idea what he was doing with the character and the book suffered greatly. Here, Kirby's writing and creative process bring us the Enchantress and the Executioner... this isn't Thor battling dopey light weight villains like Mr. Hyde or Merlin the Mad or the 'Living' Cobra... and it though it's a simple 13 page story, it's light years beyond what was being done on this title while he was away from it. 

Edited September 16, 2023 by Prince Namor

[Prince Namor]

ON NEWSSTANDS FEBRUARY 1964

Journey Into Mystery #103 - Masterfully Written by: Stan Lee  Magnificently Illustrated by Jack Kirby Majestically Inked by: Chic Stone   Meritoriously Lettered by: Art Simek

Kirby's Tales of Asgard feature in this issue. 

[shadroch]

On 9/16/2023 at 9:01 AM, Prince Namor said:

All you had to do was work 8-10 hours a day, seven days a week, 365 days a year. 

Not to mention having to walk twenty-two miles to the Marvel office to drop off his work. In the snow, barefoot. And it was uphill both ways. 

If Kirby worked eight hours a day, 365 days a year, which no one believes, it was by choice.  He could have cut his work in half and still had an above-average income.  Romita had plenty of time to socialize and helped coach Juniors baseball teams. Buscema had time to operate his school. 

Kirby was a workaholic and seems, to me, to have been very insecure and afraid to take chances.  When Joe Simon realized advertising paid much better, Kirby stuck with his comics, because that's what he knew.

Wasn't Kirby a fixture at the major comic cons?  

 

Edited September 16, 2023 by shadroch

[Prince Namor]

Wouldn't have had to worry about any of it if Stan Lee hadn't stolen credit and PAY for work that Kirby did.

[shadroch]

Did he have a sunlamp in his basement?  I've seen plenty of pictures of him looking quite tan, and more than a few pictures of him hanging around poolside at various conventions. Not bad for a guy who worked 365 days a year in a dungeon. Exaggerated claims lead to ridicule. If you want to say Kirby was the hardest-working man in the field, you might be right. Claiming he worked ten hours a day 365 days a year is stupid.

[Prince Namor]

Wouldn't have had to worry about any of it if Bob Kane Stan Lee hadn't stolen credit and PAY for work that Kirby clearly did.

[Dr. Haydn]

On 9/16/2023 at 11:01 AM, Prince Namor said:

All you had to do was work 8-10 hours a day, seven days a week, 365 days a year. 

I think Kirby took a couple of weeks' vacation during the Larry Lieber kerfuffle in early summer 1962, but based on the volume of work he was putting out, it doesn't appear he took many days off otherwise.

[Dr. Haydn]

On 9/16/2023 at 11:18 AM, Prince Namor said:

ON NEWSSTANDS FEBRUARY 1964

Journey Into Mystery #103 - Masterfully Written by: Stan Lee  Magnificently Illustrated by Jack Kirby Majestically Inked by: Chic Stone   Meritoriously Lettered by: Art Simek

Kirby's Tales of Asgard feature in this issue. 

In case anyone wondered enough about the name of the ship to look it up, here's what they would find (courtesy of Wikipedia):

 

Skíðblaðnir (Old Norse: [ˈskiːðˌblɑðnez̠], 'assembled from thin pieces of wood'), sometimes anglicized as Skidbladnir or Skithblathnir, is the best of ships in Norse mythology. It is attested in the Poetic Edda, compiled in the 13th century from earlier traditional sources, and in the Prose Edda and Heimskringla, both written in the 13th century by Snorri Sturluson. All sources note that the ship is the finest of ships, and the Poetic Edda and Prose Edda attest that it is owned by the god Freyr, while the euhemerized account in Heimskringla attributes it to the magic of Odin. Both Heimskringla and the Prose Edda attribute to it the ability to be folded up—as cloth may be—into one's pocket when not needed.

[Dr. Haydn]

P. S. I tend to think it was Jack that wrote the name of the ship on the bow. (Stan ignores the name in his dialogue). Artie Simek, the "meritorious letterer," seems to have misread a D for a P (hence "Skipbladnir" instead of "Skidbladnir"). As the legends attest, the ship is pocket-sized when not in use (page 2, panel 1)--a nice visual touch on Kirby's part.

Edited September 16, 2023 by Dr. Haydn
minor rewording

[Prince Namor]

On 9/16/2023 at 3:50 PM, Dr. Haydn said:

I think Kirby took a couple of weeks' vacation during the Larry Lieber kerfuffle in early summer 1962, but based on the volume of work he was putting out, it doesn't appear he took many days off otherwise.

Yeah, exactly. No one is literally claiming the guy worked 8-10 hours a day, 7 days a week, 365 days a year, but he had to grind a LOT. Obviously. 3.33 pages a day is INSANE. 

[Steven Valdez]

On 9/17/2023 at 1:42 AM, shadroch said:

Kirby could have bought almost ten new cars a year ,if he chose.  He could have bought two season tickets to the Mets for under $1,000.

 

Except he would not have had the time to squeeze in those games. Did Kirby have any kind of social life in the '60s?

[Steven Valdez]

On 9/17/2023 at 5:50 AM, Dr. Haydn said:

I think Kirby took a couple of weeks' vacation during the Larry Lieber kerfuffle in early summer 1962, but based on the volume of work he was putting out, it doesn't appear he took many days off otherwise.

He didn't even get sick, or at least never took any sick days. Most people get a cold or flu every now and then but it seems Jack was fit and well for the entire duration of the '60s.

[jimjum12]

On 9/16/2023 at 11:42 AM, shadroch said:

I don't know where Kirby's  $20,000 a year salary information comes from, but that was a fortune compared to today's artists. 

I'm sure there are records but a simple math exercise of 25 bucks a page times 3 books at 22 pages per month is $19,800 ...and that doesn't include covers or pin-ups. Kirby was excelling, which is probably why he didn't rock the boat at the time. There was one year that was his career high, volume-wise, I want to say 1963. GOD BLESS ...

-jimbo(a friend of jesus)

[Steven Valdez]

I think I read somewhere (probably a Twomorrows publication) that Jack was pulling down something like $32K per in the late '60s.

[jimjum12]

On 9/16/2023 at 6:17 PM, Prince Namor said:

Obviously. 3.33 pages a day is INSANE.

Some people claimed he was doing 4 pages a day at his prime. Thing with Kirby is he knew what he wanted... it just flowed out of him. If you figure based on 3 books of 22 pages each, every month, not counting annuals, he was cranking out at least 800 pages and covers per year. If he was doing 4 a day, that would take 200 work days. If doing 3 a day, it would be 266 work days. Yes, there will be Math  GOD BLESS ... 

-jimbo(a friend of jesus)

 

..I still kick myself for not buying that badazz Rawhide Kid OA page from Rob Rogovin for $750 ...

Edited September 18, 2023 by jimjum12

[Zonker]

On 9/17/2023 at 10:02 AM, Steven Valdez said:

I think I read somewhere (probably a Twomorrows publication) that Jack was pulling down something like $32K per in the late '60s.

Kirby began to conceive his new comic books when he was still at Marvel, but felt he might not get enough editorial autonomy. He left his $35,000‐a‐year job at Marvel and took his new books to National.