Superman in Italy - Are these stories still unpublished in English language ? 1 1

[archivist]

 

Even after forty years of digging deep into DC stories, there still are surprises coming up.

 

While checking the reprints in "Superman's Pal Jimmy Olsen" #113, I read the article about foreign editions behind the stories and had to read the following words (quoted):

---start---

Italian fans have the chance to read some stories American readers never saw. The publishers sometimes bring out brand new Superman tales, illustrated by Italian artists.

---end---

 

The year was 1968 or before.

 

Does anybody have more information about this ?

[rakehell]

On 8/14/2023 at 6:41 PM, archivist said:

While checking the reprints in "Superman's Pal Jimmy Olsen" #113, I read the article about foreign editions behind the stories and had to read the following words (quoted):

Could you post a link to the article? You've got me intrigued. 

[archivist]

 

The article was a page in issue #113, nothing spectacular (except for what I quoted), probably written by E. Nelson Bridwell who was assistant editor at this time. It's basically just "The title's name in Spain is ..., the title's name in Norway is ..., the title's name in Italy is ..." and so on (with some cover pictures).

[sfcityduck]

Lots of original Italian stories for Disney characters that were not published in the US.  I wonder why this was so for Italy?  Maybe sort of like Polish movie posters for US films having to have been drawn by Polish artists.

[Kromak]

On 8/16/2023 at 4:34 PM, sfcityduck said:

Lots of original Italian stories for Disney characters that were not published in the US.  I wonder why this was so for Italy?  Maybe sort of like Polish movie posters for US films having to have been drawn by Polish artists.

Vast majority of Disney stories were produced outside US (especially from middle 60`s and up) and very few were ever published there.

[archivist]

O.K., let's get to the facts:

In the first half of 1968 somebody at DC Comics wrote an article which was published in Jimmy Olsen #113. The article says:

This means to me:

- Artists from Italy created new Superman stories.

- These stories were published by publishers in Italy.

- These stories were NOT published in the USA.

 

Does anybody know something about these stories ?

If you live in Italy and have a collection of italian Superman books from the 1960s, please contact dc-archiv@gmx.net

Also, if you're Italian and know which publishers in the 1960s did publish Superman books, please get in touch.

I asked several Superman experts, some knew about this but - although owning quite some italian Superman books from that time - never found a story which wasn't a reprint of an US story.

If you read this text twenty years from now, please get in touch. Thank you.

Bye,

Archi

 

[MusterMark]

Hi,

In the vast, varied and exciting world of international comics (aka foreign comics), this is not that uncommon.  There is tremendous variation, depending on country, era, publisher, character, etc etc etc.  There can be wild variations even within one country and even within one publisher in that country or across different publishers in that country.  Often, the superhero stories were sourced precisely from the American versions -  the original story kept but just translated into the local language.  And often the original art was kept too, or was sometimes redrawn locally.  But sometimes brand new stories were written and drawn locally - which is what you are asking about.

Perhaps one of the most widely known examples of this is the Mexico publisher Novaro in the 1970’s, in their non-canon stories in which MJ Watson lives, and marries Spider-Man.  In this case, this happened for 2 main reasons.  Novaro was publishing weekly and began to run out of the American material, which was published monthly.  Spider-Man had become very popular in Mexico, and many readers there expressed their disdain for the death of MJ.  So Novaro resurrected her, in multiple issues.  The best known of these issues, the wedding issue, has sold (in decent condition) a few times in the last couple of years for $20,000 to $30,000.  It is very hard to find.

In the example you bring up:  Italy and Superman:  Italy started some “tinkering” with the American superhero stories back in the 1940’s.  Superman, and to some extent Batman, were popular in Italy, and sometimes new stories were made locally for them.  I don’t know TOO much about the Italian 1970’s Superman because my interests are usually in comics older than that.

I will alert one of our illustrious Boardies, vaillant, who is from Italy.  He knows MUCH more than I, and will be able to tell you much more, and hopefully also correct any of my statements that might be erroneous.

@vaillant

 

Edited:  Gwen Stacy, not MJ!

Edited April 14 by MusterMark

[sfcityduck]

On 4/14/2024 at 8:16 AM, MusterMark said:

Hi,

In the vast, varied and exciting world of international comics (aka foreign comics), this is not that uncommon.  There is tremendous variation, depending on country, era, publisher, character, etc etc etc.  There can be wild variations even within one country and even within one publisher in that country or across different publishers in that country.  Often, the superhero stories were sourced precisely from the American versions -  the original story kept but just translated into the local language.  And often the original art was kept too, or was sometimes redrawn locally.  But sometimes brand new stories were written and drawn locally - which is what you are asking about.

Perhaps one of the most widely known examples of this is the Mexico publisher Novaro in the 1970’s, in their non-canon stories in which MJ Watson lives, and marries Spider-Man.  In this case, this happened for 2 main reasons.  Novaro was publishing weekly and began to run out of the American material, which was published monthly.  Spider-Man had become very popular in Mexico, and many readers there expressed their disdain for the death of MJ.  So Novaro resurrected her, in multiple issues.  The best known of these issues, the wedding issue, has sold (in decent condition) a few times in the last couple of years for $20,000 to $30,000.  It is very hard to find.

In the example you bring up:  Italy and Superman:  Italy started some “tinkering” with the American superhero stories back in the 1940’s.  Superman, and to some extent Batman, were popular in Italy, and sometimes new stories were made locally for them.  I don’t know TOO much about the Italian 1970’s Superman because my interests are usually in comics older than that.

I will alert one of our illustrious Boardies, valliant, who is from Italy.  He knows MUCH more than I, and will be able to tell you much more, and hopefully also correct any of my statements that might be erroneous.

@valliant

 

Psst - Gwen not MJ but I think you knew that. A possible third reason, the Mexican market in the 70s must have loved GGA:

[MusterMark]

Duh, yes, Gwen Stacy of course, not MJ!

 

[archivist]

Thank you for posting !

That's what I want to achieve, to get more experts and their knowledge to find out what happened in 1968. Let's see what @vaillant has to add.

Since I only know about DCs, the story about Mexico and Gwen were new to me. I know about the German DCs from the 80s and the "og fredsbomben", but I thought that were the only foreign language originals. I wonder which success would have waited for a resurrected British or Australian Kara in the 80s.

Archi

 

Edited April 14 by archivist

[vaillant]

On 8/16/2023 at 6:34 PM, sfcityduck said:

Lots of original Italian stories for Disney characters that were not published in the US.  I wonder why this was so for Italy?  Maybe sort of like Polish movie posters for US films having to have been drawn by Polish artists.

Since the 1960s decline of syndicated strips, and consequently Disney comics, Italy has officially become the biggest and most acknowledged worldwide provider of original Disney comics stories.
This has been already happening for at least a decade, but after Walt Disney death the comics production was further neglected in USA, and this of course mutually reinforced the decline of the characters popularity among younger generations of readers. Italian artists (together with nordic or Dutch ones) in particular were also working for the Disney studios for stories to be published all across the world *except* in USA. Gladstone daringly started a slowly "recover" of comics tradition (and twice) in in homeland, where Disney comics originated, but we see how it went. I don't know which approach Boom studios took, IDW was interesting but in my opinion it still did not strike the adequate balance to succeed in making them once again known to the wider public.
The sporadical attempts in US publishing to try and "re-instate" a comics tradition were varied and always ended up being sort of "niche", while in Italy, nordic countries, Argentina, most of Europe, comics (along with the classic animated movies) have always been *the* staple of Walt Disney Productions.

Keep in mind that when the Italian production started, as early as the late 1930s ("Donald Duck and the mystery of Mars, the earliest Disney story entirely produced in Italy, albeit a bit weird, is from 1937), the classic syndicated production from USA was still in full bloom. But by the 1960s Italy had become the official largest provider of new stories of high quality for countries all over the world. Ironically, except USA, until Gladstone tried to change this starting in 1986.

[vaillant]

@archivist So, apologies for not getting back earlier. Asif (mustermark) noticed me about this but for some reason my Internet browser did not allow me to access the forums.
The technical problem now seems solved.
 

To cut a long story short: as far as the early decades are concerned (1930s and 1940s) each country has a rich and varied story on how DC Comics superheroes were initially presented and adapted (or even "recreated"), and this is often intertwined with relevant and fascinating historical events of a given time. As we get to the 1960s and past them — I speak for Italy alone — I am aware of original stories produced for the Batman (Mondadori) title in the 1960s but I have no direct knowledge of Superman ones. I believe one of the best persons to ask, as I basically remain very ignorant about DC history, is Marcello Vaccari. I do not have a direct contact of him, but if you use Facebook I can point you to his profile.

[vaillant]

As an example: here's an article about the Montecchi brothers, which did a handful of Batman stories for Mondadori (they signed "Montague" to fool readers in believing the stories were orignal US ones):
https://www.giornalepop.it/fratelli-montecchi/

I attach a page from a Montecchi brothers story:
 

[vaillant]

On 8/16/2023 at 8:51 PM, Kromak said:

Vast majority of Disney stories were produced outside US (especially from middle 60`s and up) and very few were ever published there.

And being Kromak from Brazil he knows well, as together with us, they have been one of the producers. Brazilian authors also adopted very early the Italian created character "Duck Avenger" (by master Guido Martina) somewhat turning him into a sort of super-hero parody (which he was not mean to be, he was introduced as a commentary of the italian "fumetti neri" on the wave of Diabolik). Brazilian authors did fun and weird short stories where almost all of the characters have secret identities.
In particular, Paper Bat ("Morcego Vermelho", Red Bat in his original Brazilian conception), Fethry Duck's unlucky superheroistic alter-ego, was created in 1973 by brazilian authors Ivan Saidenberg and Carlos Edgard Herrero, based on guidelines by our own Giovan Battista Carpi (art director of the Italian Disney school until his death in 1999). 
https://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morcego_Vermelho

Red Bat is basically "Fethry Duck playing Batman" and he's very funny at that…
I attach an 1980s cover of our own title "Mega Almanacco" by italian master Marco Rota featuring him… I love this cover!

[archivist]

On 4/19/2024 at 12:32 AM, vaillant said:

while in Italy, nordic countries, Argentina, most of Europe, comics (along with the classic animated movies) have always been *the* staple of Walt Disney Productions.

 

I can confirm that for Germany. If one of you travels to Germany, you'll find lots of Mickey Mouse or Donald Duck in super markets or other places with magazines but no super-heroes. They can only be found at railroad stations.

 

[archivist]

On 4/19/2024 at 12:39 AM, vaillant said:

So, apologies for not getting back earlier. Asif (mustermark) noticed me about this but for some reason my Internet browser did not allow me to access the forums.
The technical problem now seems solved.

 

This had nothing to do with you. I had the same problems three weeks ago. The boards made some changes which resulted in log-in difficulties.

 

[archivist]

 

So, exclusive Batman stories too ? For over 40 years now I'm into DC Comics and the surprises still don't end - unbelievable.

 

Vaillant, thank you for all your information. WIth what you wrote I was able to open a door into an universe where I still have to find out just how big the amount of exclusive stories is. I hope somebody has a listing with all those stories. If you can point me to the profile of Marcello Vaccari, I would ask him if he has such a listing. Maybe an incomplete one, so that I don't have to start from zero.

 

La gatta - isn't she a beauty ?

[vaillant]

On 4/22/2024 at 3:40 PM, archivist said:

So, exclusive Batman stories too ? For over 40 years now I'm into DC Comics and the surprises still don't end - unbelievable.

 

Vaillant, thank you for all your information. WIth what you wrote I was able to open a door into an universe where I still have to find out just how big the amount of exclusive stories is. I hope somebody has a listing with all those stories. If you can point me to the profile of Marcello Vaccari, I would ask him if he has such a listing. Maybe an incomplete one, so that I don't have to start from zero.

Hi, you're welcome. As I said, Marcello Vaccari is on Facebook but I do not have his contacts. I will send you a message with his Facebook profile address, if you wish.

Update: I just learned there are indeed Superman stories from the 1960s written and drawn in Italy, also commissioned by Mondadori.
According to the site comicsbox (should be generally quite accurate), the very first Superman 1960s story done in Italy is "Cronaca Lampo", written and drawn by Leone Cimpellin, and was published on Albi del Falco #317, which is also the italian edition of "Supergirl introduction to the world", and possibly the Supergirl on cover in Italy as well, here the details:
https://www.comicsbox.it/albo/ALBIFALCO_317

Here's an old article by Marcello Vaccari on the topic (scroll down to the paragraph "Superman made in Italy"):
https://www.glamazonia.it/old/articoli/albifalco/albifalco.htm

[vaillant]

On 4/22/2024 at 3:29 PM, archivist said:

 

I can confirm that for Germany. If one of you travels to Germany, you'll find lots of Mickey Mouse or Donald Duck in super markets or other places with magazines but no super-heroes. They can only be found at railroad stations.

 

The publisher of Disney comics for Germany for long years has been Ehapa, I believe the diffusion has been as large as it was in France in Italy, or at least similar.
Up to date "Topolino", our leading Disney title, is still the most known and popular comics publication to the wide, generic public.

[archivist]

 

Yes, please send the message with Marcello Vaccari's Facebook profile address, either to dc-archiv@gmx.net or as a private message here. I'm not that good with social media so I appreciate every help I get.

In the meantime I did a thorough research on the website and managed to find 71 stories which were either created completely new or reworked from an US story.

What I also noticed is that one story written by Bill Finger seems to be not reworked but original. I checked the splash pages of the US stories where I suspected this story to be from, but I haven't found it.

I will ask Mr. Vaccari if he has a second source just so I can cross-check the information and not just have to believe what's written there. But in general I really am glad to have found the information at all.

So thank you, vaillant, for making it possible to solve another mystery about the DC stories !