The Inheritance Case That Could Unravel an Art Dynasty How a widow’s legal fight against the Wildenstein family of France has threatened their storied collection — and revealed the underbelly of the global art market. (NYTimes 2023-08-26) 1 1

[alxjhnsn]

Interesting article in the New York Times on how the value of art and the taxes due on the sale are hidden in the fine art market. Could our OA market do something similar?

Edited August 26, 2023 by alxjhnsn

[gumbydarnit]

Wow that was a heck of an interesting article. Thanks for bringing it to our attention … many parallels come to mind when they explain the inter-workings of that fine art world and what is probably going on with our comic art business (seems like it can no longer be called a hobby).

Thanks Alex!!!

[Hockeyflow33]

Two thoughts I had throughout, irrespective of wealth it's sad how often elderly widows are preyed upon with their estates and no matter the country, governments never care unless they think they can squeeze money out of something. 

This old lady was clearly ripped off during a horrible time and the courts rule against her but when the government thinks they're entitled to hundred of millions of dollars in tax debt they can re-interpret settled law to claw back money. 

[grapeape]

On 8/26/2023 at 10:30 AM, alxjhnsn said:

Interesting article in the New York Times on how the value of art and the taxes due on the sale are hidden in the fine art market. Could our OA market do something similar?

Alex thank you for bringing relative, thought provoking info to the board. I love your collection, so much different from me but wonderful. 
   I also am thinking of Lee Benaka and Vodou. Lee with the flip thread and his archives of OA. Vodou with many on point article links. Alex, always to the rescue when a boardie asks a question that can be answered by following Alex's link. 
     
 This article really triggered a lot of feelings. On the one hand I'm disgusted by the continued links to wealthy families and Nazi purloined art. Than I'm thinking of how skillfully these "estates" hide art and use its perceived wealth to borrow and invest in other wealth building schemes. Can't really say much about the government involvement because I'm not taking the hook. I also don't want to goad some of you in to trouble. Read the article 😠 

The most chilling is seeing an unprotected, uninformed wife completely defenseless because the husband never thought he would die.            My "wealth" is a drop in their champion horses feed bucket. But I'm making sure my wife knows what to do and how to act if I drop dead.

Finally, I loathe the way our collectibles are taxed. 28% + 4% and state taxes give or take? Cost basis can only help so much. I'm glad I don't have the problems some of these wealthy folks have. I don't envy or hate the rich at all. What I'm saying is money is their 24/7 job in the examples given. The families are brutal to each other. It did feel like organized crime in the examples.

I'm on the floor playing with my niece and reading books. Life is short. Don't take on the ugly. Embrace the light.

This is a hobby for me. I'm not trading in my soul for it. 

 

[vodou]

Thought provoking article Alex; thank you for bringing it forward, as I otherwise have no use for the NYT.

I could go many directions here but the one I consider most compelling is identifying the prevalence of narcissistic traits, if not clinical narcissist personality disorder, appearing multigenerationally over 150 years. Those of us in the know know that narc is always about self-centered control, with little to no regard for how such an actions-informing no boundaries personality affects others, family friends lovers or not. It seems to me that the simplest of prenuptial agreements would have eliminated 95% (if not 100%) of the “risk” of “family by marriage” claims arising from divorce, sudden incapacitation or death, leaving nearly all of the whole intact and undisclosed, which was always the real point anyway…right? But…that would have required some upfront ceding of control (“if…,then…”) which the “no boundaries personality will always struggle mightily with!

Thus, I 😉😗😛😂🤣 as the very traits that gave rise to such a vast accumulated fortune appear to be soon also destroying it; karma.

[timguerrero]

interesting! thanks for sharing Alex

[Hockeyflow33]

On 8/26/2023 at 10:38 PM, grapeape said:

 

The most chilling is seeing an unprotected, uninformed wife completely defenseless because the husband never thought he would die.            My "wealth" is a drop in their champion horses feed bucket. But I'm making sure my wife knows what to do and how to act if I drop dead.

 

 

I come across this all the time in my work and it's incredibly sad how often this happens and watching all the vultures come in and pick away at her and whatever money she has, which is often times just a home. I'm talking regular, middle-class families too where family members are just absolutely horrible to each other. It's a very sad part of life that most people don't see and most of these older folks will put blind faith into everyone and so often it does not work out for them. 

[grapeape]

On 8/27/2023 at 8:12 AM, Hockeyflow33 said:

I come across this all the time in my work and it's incredibly sad how often this happens and watching all the vultures come in and pick away at her and whatever money she has, which is often times just a home. I'm talking regular, middle-class families too where family members are just absolutely horrible to each other. It's a very sad part of life that most people don't see and most of these older folks will put blind faith into everyone and so often it does not work out for them. 

Bank management 20 years.

Same scenarios. 😢 

 

[alxjhnsn]

What really stood out to me was the way the step sons lied to her. She seemed to love them, but the reverse was not true. Sad.

Of course, the stolen Nazi art is an even larger problem. I suspect that they have a pile and I hope it is brought to light.

[alxjhnsn]

On 8/26/2023 at 9:38 PM, grapeape said:

Alex thank you for bringing relative, thought provoking info to the board. I love your collection, so much different from me but wonderful. 
I also am thinking of Lee Benaka and Vodou. Lee with the flip thread and his archives of OA. Vodou with many on point article links. Alex, always to the rescue when a boardie asks a question that can be answered by following Alex's link. 

Thanks for the kind words. Regarding my collection, I have a dozen or so framed, but more that I want to see. Kathy and I know a cabinet maker and he made a book stand to hold a portfolio so I pull one out and flip the page until it runs out and repeat that each day. It helps.

Front View (Simonson and Aragones on S&S)  

Side view (Ken Penders on S&S)

Edited August 27, 2023 by alxjhnsn

[comix4fun]

On 8/26/2023 at 12:30 PM, alxjhnsn said:

Interesting article in the New York Times on how the value of art and the taxes due on the sale are hidden in the fine art market. Could our OA market do something similar?

That is some headline....I have to say the first thing I thought of when I read it was: 

[JadeGiant]

Wow, very interesting. Thanks for sharing!

[Taylor G]

Web archived version.

[Aahz]

As a personal note, I always find it amazing that something like art, which really is supposed to be a bit transcendental, brings out the absolute worst in people.

An interesting point towards the end of the article was that the market for the types of paintings that the family holds has gone down in part because the museums are full.  ie, if they want a painting by ____, they have it.  I hadn't thought that the. museum market would be strong enough to drive market indicators by itself.

[WolverineX]

On 8/31/2023 at 1:44 PM, Aahz said:

As a personal note, I always find it amazing that something like art, which really is supposed to be a bit transcendental, brings out the absolute worst in people.

 

[redrighthand]

On 8/31/2023 at 10:44 AM, Aahz said:

 

An interesting point towards the end of the article was that the market for the types of paintings that the family holds has gone down in part because the museums are full.  ie, if they want a painting by ____, they have it.  I hadn't thought that the. museum market would be strong enough to drive market indicators by itself.

Meanwhile, the works museums are trying to acquire, they can't because they can't match the bids these financial instruments artworks pull in.

[vodou]

The “culture” of museum directors, curators and Board and how it affects what’s collected, in what quantity and what is not is almost more interesting than the art itself.