Vintage Grading 1 1

[micky 8]

Thoughts or experiences with Csg on vintage cards? compared to other graders? Csg vintage resale? Csg tough on vintage? Fair? Leniant? tough on some things easier on others? examples of vintage slabs, Overall do you like csg for vintage??? 

[Kon_Jelly]

I've only sent in one vintage card to be graded. It was a 1956 Hank Aaron white back. I had it pegged as a 7 before I sent it in, and that's exactly what it came back with:

Edited September 20, 2022 by Kon_Jelly

[Junk Wax Addict]

Overall, I feel their grading is pretty consistent and fair, though there are always some head scratchers.  As for value, CSG is the best way for me to grow my vintage collection at such a rapid pace.  You can generally find nice CSG graded vintage baseball cards in the 6-8 grade range for 50-75% the cost of a similarly graded card from PSA.  My graded card collection is about 95% from CSG.  I have also sent a number of orders to them including vintage for grading.

[micky 8]

On 9/20/2022 at 10:16 AM, Kon_Jelly said:

I've only sent in one vintage card to be graded. It was a 1956 Hank Aaron white back. I had it pegged as a 7 before I sent it in, and that's exactly what it came back with:

sheesh! thats a clean Hank, cant tell from photo but looks like it coulda did even better, I have a tough time judging centering with small borders like that , might as well put this chat to good use and see how people are making out grading vintage, vintage gets left out of the grading conversation, been hearing csg kinda leniant compared to sgc not from the reveals i seen but only got 1 vintage card at csg now but plan on more 

[micky 8]

On 9/20/2022 at 12:33 PM, Junk Wax Addict said:

Overall, I feel their grading is pretty consistent and fair, though there are always some head scratchers.  As for value, CSG is the best way for me to grow my vintage collection at such a rapid pace.  You can generally find nice CSG graded vintage baseball cards in the 6-8 grade range for 50-75% the cost of a similarly graded card from PSA.  My graded card collection is about 95% from CSG.  I have also sent a number of orders to them including vintage for grading.

yep its crazy buying high grade csg vintage for cheap all day, its weird the high end vintage does pretty good but a lot of csg vintage is a steal its wild ill see raw cards goin for the same price as a csg 8! Cant hit buy now fast enough like i never even seen that card in an 8 ha or im like maybe i can push it and find a 9 for super cheap on 60 or 70yr old card 

[micky 8]

[micky 8]

On 10/18/2022 at 11:19 PM, micky 8 said:

my personal holy grail! so happy with a csg 8 i bought the cleanest copy i could find 

[Glen Campbell]

My current favorites!  I grade a lot of vintage and think they are very comparable to SCG, which seems to be the most trusted vintage grader out there.

[micky 8]

On 10/31/2022 at 7:07 PM, Glen Campbell said:

My current favorites!  I grade a lot of vintage and think they are very comparable to SCG, which seems to be the most trusted vintage grader out there.

🔥🔥👌 awesome!! I been hearing a lot of Csg being leniant on vintage, they dont use measurements or any tangible evidence, they dont compare to the scale, I just hear things like looks more like a 5! Based on what? I seen you grade a lot of vintage and cross over a bunch of vintage and csg is more consistent and more accurate. Just because psa throws out random vintage grades dont mean they're accurate. Its annoying to hear csg is too tough for a year and now they are too leniant wtf is that?!  Have you been hearing that lately? 

[Glen Campbell]

On 10/31/2022 at 9:12 PM, micky 8 said:

🔥🔥👌 awesome!! I been hearing a lot of Csg being leniant on vintage, they dont use measurements or any tangible evidence, they dont compare to the scale, I just hear things like looks more like a 5! Based on what? I seen you grade a lot of vintage and cross over a bunch of vintage and csg is more consistent and more accurate. Just because psa throws out random vintage grades dont mean they're accurate. Its annoying to hear csg is too tough for a year and now they are too leniant wtf is that?!  Have you been hearing that lately? 

Mostly just on vintage.  I watch videos of guys saying “this should have got x grade” or “PSA would never have graded this high”…makes me laugh every time I hear it.

I think a large percentage of the hobby talks on all grading companies other than PSA to protect their investments as opposed to actually speaking with facts.

New collectors getting into grading will have to change the narrative.  Those heavily invested in PSA will defend them to their graves regardless of how lenient or inconsistent they are.

[redfoxdutchman]

CSG, in my experience, does grade vintage a little lenient. I have graded with CSG/PSA/SGC and they can sometimes be 0.5 to 1 grade above SGC/PSA. CSG tends to let a dinged corner grade higher than the other companies. However, they are just as hard on surface than PSA/SGC. 

I still use CSG for vintage, because of the price and quality of the holder. Well, I stopped using them for non-standard sized vintage, because I prefer the slabs designed for those cards. The crimped plastic sleeves are a deal breaker for me. I really wish CSG would have slabs that are designed for T206, 1933 Goudey, and early Bowman cards. 

Now for some actual evidence that they grade more on the lenient side. The evidence is Andy Broome himself. Andy was in charge of BVG at Beckett, and they grade vintage (pre-1980's) differently than modern cards. They even tell you they do! That is how Andy graded for a long time. He then came to CSG and lead the vintage grading here. He trained everyone and defined the standards. It is absolutely not a stretch that CSG vintage grading is treated differently than cards after 1980. This does fit with my experience with grading at PSA/SGC. I am not talking a huge difference, but I have received 7's on cards that would normally be a 6 to 6.5 at PSA/SGC. However, PSA will grade the same card a 5 to a 7 with their inconsistent grading. 

The one thing about CSG and SGC that I love, is at least they are consistent about how they grade. I stopped using PSA because of insane turnaround times, horrible customer service, and inconsistent grading. I will also use CSG over SGC for standard sized cards. It is half the price, and the slab is twice as nice. 

Edit: I will go one further here. BVG vintage is 1980 and older and BGS grades cards 1981 and newer. That is exactly how these forums are set up. Most other places will say pre-1980's and will include 1980 as not vintage. 

Edited November 3, 2022 by redfoxdutchman

[redfoxdutchman]

On 11/2/2022 at 8:42 PM, Glen Campbell said:

Mostly just on vintage.  I watch videos of guys saying “this should have got x grade” or “PSA would never have graded this high”…makes me laugh every time I hear it.

I think a large percentage of the hobby talks on all grading companies other than PSA to protect their investments as opposed to actually speaking with facts.

New collectors getting into grading will have to change the narrative.  Those heavily invested in PSA will defend them to their graves regardless of how lenient or inconsistent they are.

Each grading company does things differently. PSA cares more about centering and corners. CSG cares more about the surface of the card. That is why you will see PSA cards that have a crappy surface grade much higher than CSG. You will also see CSG cards with a dinged corner grade much lower at PSA. PSA rewards off-centered cards for being in great shape, CSG rewards centering and registration over everything else being perfect. I much prefer the way CSG grades. Just a personal opinion.

I had another order pop and the cards with a nice surface graded well and they killed me on 5 cards that PSA would have graded 1+ higher in a grade because of a slight surface issue.  

Edited November 3, 2022 by redfoxdutchman

[micky 8]

On 11/2/2022 at 11:42 PM, Glen Campbell said:

Mostly just on vintage.  I watch videos of guys saying “this should have got x grade” or “PSA would never have graded this high”…makes me laugh every time I hear it.

I think a large percentage of the hobby talks on all grading companies other than PSA to protect their investments as opposed to actually speaking with facts.

New collectors getting into grading will have to change the narrative.  Those heavily invested in PSA will defend them to their graves regardless of how lenient or inconsistent they are.

Exactly Psa overgrades like crazy, Im not even knocking them but those same collectors are fine wit psa n talk trash on csg, Psa gets so much leeway on all aspects of grading, they grade fakes, no biggie, give a gem on a 70/30 OC wit soft corners no biggie, trims million dollar cards and overgrades it no biggie! csg its like my card is super overgraded this card should be a 4.5 not a 5 csg sux ill never use them again ha 

[micky 8]

On 11/3/2022 at 11:04 AM, redfoxdutchman said:

CSG, in my experience, does grade vintage a little lenient. I have graded with CSG/PSA/SGC and they can sometimes be 0.5 to 1 grade above SGC/PSA. CSG tends to let a dinged corner grade higher than the other companies. However, they are just as hard on surface than PSA/SGC. 

I still use CSG for vintage, because of the price and quality of the holder. Well, I stopped using them for non-standard sized vintage, because I prefer the slabs designed for those cards. The crimped plastic sleeves are a deal breaker for me. I really wish CSG would have slabs that are designed for T206, 1933 Goudey, and early Bowman cards. 

Now for some actual evidence that they grade more on the lenient side. The evidence is Andy Broome himself. Andy was in charge of BVG at Beckett, and they grade vintage (pre-1980's) differently than modern cards. They even tell you they do! That is how Andy graded for a long time. He then came to CSG and lead the vintage grading here. He trained everyone and defined the standards. It is absolutely not a stretch that CSG vintage grading is treated differently than cards after 1980. This does fit with my experience with grading at PSA/SGC. I am not talking a huge difference, but I have received 7's on cards that would normally be a 6 to 6.5 at PSA/SGC. However, PSA will grade the same card a 5 to a 7 with their inconsistent grading. 

The one thing about CSG and SGC that I love, is at least they are consistent about how they grade. I stopped using PSA because of insane turnaround times, horrible customer service, and inconsistent grading. I will also use CSG over SGC for standard sized cards. It is half the price, and the slab is twice as nice. 

Edit: I will go one further here. BVG vintage is 1980 and older and BGS grades cards 1981 and newer. That is exactly how these forums are set up. Most other places will say pre-1980's and will include 1980 as not vintage. 

agree 100% on mini's, exc.. wish they would have a seperate slab for those cards for sure! Yea they are consistent with their way of grading and stick to their scale, I seen a vintage Bvg to csg crossover and was pretty spot on ha , Glenn 👆 from deviationcards did a lot of interesting vintage crossovers from sgc to csg, psa to csg even csg old to csg new label.  Pretty much on par with what you said .5 to 1 eighther way.. Appreciate your feedback on csg vintage, i wanted to get a serious conversation about csg vintage going  cause its been coming up a lot and dudes like csg for vintage because of the clear slabs 

[micky 8]

On 11/3/2022 at 5:52 PM, redfoxdutchman said:

Each grading company does things differently. PSA cares more about centering and corners. CSG cares more about the surface of the card. That is why you will see PSA cards that have a crappy surface grade much higher than CSG. You will also see CSG cards with a dinged corner grade much lower at PSA. PSA rewards off-centered cards for being in great shape, CSG rewards centering and registration over everything else being perfect. I much prefer the way CSG grades. Just a personal opinion.

I had another order pop and the cards with a nice surface graded well and they killed me on 5 cards that PSA would have graded 1+ higher in a grade because of a slight surface issue.  

Agree with that assessment 

[redfoxdutchman]

On 11/3/2022 at 6:09 PM, micky 8 said:

agree 100% on mini's, exc.. wish they would have a seperate slab for those cards for sure! Yea they are consistent with their way of grading and stick to their scale, I seen a vintage Bvg to csg crossover and was pretty spot on ha , Glenn 👆 from deviationcards did a lot of interesting vintage crossovers from sgc to csg, psa to csg even csg old to csg new label.  Pretty much on par with what you said .5 to 1 eighther way.. Appreciate your feedback on csg vintage, i wanted to get a serious conversation about csg vintage going  cause its been coming up a lot and dudes like csg for vintage because of the clear slabs 

People care way too much about grades. I have a PSA 10 1988 Fleer Dennis Rodman that sells for over $2000 because of an opinion. Bought it for $30 and graded it for $10. If I took it out of the case and submitted it to PSA, 80% chance it is a 9 and 20% chance of a 10. The card would probably lose over $2000 because it graded a 9. 

I have graded 80's vending cards with PSA that were absolutely identical in every way. Put one of the best in separate orders. Some orders I got 8/9's and some orders I got 7/8's, with cards that were identical. I treat grading as +/-1. If I have an 6 from any company, I treat it as a 5 to 7. 

I am buying raw cards and grading with CSG, then selling or trading my PSA slabs of the same card. For instance I have two PSA 7's 1974 Dave Winfield rookies and I got one graded at CSG that is very similar that got a CSG 7.5. Keeping the CSG and getting rid of the two PSA slabs. I have been doing this for the past 6 months.

[micky 8]

On 11/4/2022 at 5:39 PM, redfoxdutchman said:

People care way too much about grades. I have a PSA 10 1988 Fleer Dennis Rodman that sells for over $2000 because of an opinion. Bought it for $30 and graded it for $10. If I took it out of the case and submitted it to PSA, 80% chance it is a 9 and 20% chance of a 10. The card would probably lose over $2000 because it graded a 9. 

I have graded 80's vending cards with PSA that were absolutely identical in every way. Put one of the best in separate orders. Some orders I got 8/9's and some orders I got 7/8's, with cards that were identical. I treat grading as +/-1. If I have an 6 from any company, I treat it as a 5 to 7. 

I am buying raw cards and grading with CSG, then selling or trading my PSA slabs of the same card. For instance I have two PSA 7's 1974 Dave Winfield rookies and I got one graded at CSG that is very similar that got a CSG 7.5. Keeping the CSG and getting rid of the two PSA slabs. I have been doing this for the past 6 months.

same here, im cracking psa slabs n sending to csg, slowly selling off psa slabs too, I guess with any collectable especially ones that appreciate with time the value increases if the condition is pristine whether its cards or a rocking chair ha, that opinion is suppose to be a trained proffessional appraiser ha I have a brady rookie same kinda thing a raw card or psa 8 is $50 a gem is $4000, Its kinda cool ya have a brand that printed all bad cards, offcentered, easilly chipped so those few gems of a common card is worth a ton, upperdeck griffey rc kinda like that, jordan 86 fleer a little bit like that too its a tough gem, dudes probably think im crazy crackin my psa slabs n sending to csg but i dont care i like the way my cards look in csg slabs n i gotta feeling csg gonna reign supreme down the road

[ckycards]

I've always subscribed to the "buy the card, not the grade" mantra. With CSG, I would say more of my cards are slightly over-graded than under-graded. But I'm buying the card, and CSG graded is still severely undervalued, so that's what most of my vintage collection is currently. 

My 1953 Topps Jackie Robinson (below) may grade a PSA 2 instead of CSG 2.5. But I got it for significantly less than what a PSA 2 would go for – and it presents incredibly well in a CSG slab. CSG has the best slabs in the business, IMO.

 

 

[micky 8]

On 11/8/2022 at 10:18 AM, ckycards said:

I've always subscribed to the "buy the card, not the grade" mantra. With CSG, I would say more of my cards are slightly over-graded than under-graded. But I'm buying the card, and CSG graded is still severely undervalued, so that's what most of my vintage collection is currently. 

My 1953 Topps Jackie Robinson (below) may grade a PSA 2 instead of CSG 2.5. But I got it for significantly less than what a PSA 2 would go for – and it presents incredibly well in a CSG slab. CSG has the best slabs in the business, IMO.

 

 

Thanx for your feedback on csg vintage thats a good point, more people are using csg for vintage i think because the way the slabs make the cards pop so i was hoping dudes would dig in with their opinions on vintage grading so we can get a good handle on what to expect. Tough to find an unbiased opinion on youtube ha Seems like csg vintage puts more emphasis on the surface color and centering and easier on corners but for the most part csg seems consistent with there approach. Im buying csg vintage now I think the values are gonna catch up soon, cards like that jackie is the reason why values will start to climb 🔥 

[micky 8]

On 10/31/2022 at 7:07 PM, Glen Campbell said:

My current favorites!  I grade a lot of vintage and think they are very comparable to SCG, which seems to be the most trusted vintage grader out there.

yo Glenn ya gotta do more of those cracking sgc vintage to csg, I sent guys to your page they said its not a big enough sample size! 😂 they said i can tell csg is more leniant by looking! 🤦‍♂️ Im like but i got actual evidence n they say its not enough to tell ha So ya got 50-100 vintage sgc slabs laying around ya wanna crack 😂😂 that should do it!!