Need Some Help 4 4

[Et-Es-Go]

I sent a golden age book into CGC for grading and submitted it as Unlimited Value.  Since this book seldom changes hands there is not really a current fair market value established for it so I made my determination on what the grade would be and used the price guide for fair market value, which was $1,800.  I got an email from CGC saying it was adjusted, see copy of it below.  I don't understand what this means and wondering if someone here can explain this.  I have already talked to CGC and have asked them to look into this.  

[Funnybooks]

need more info regarding the specific book and how you determined your estimate

[Lightning55]

Hey, what's another $11,928 in fees? CGC is slow lately, so they have to mark everything up 12,000%.

The letter has a pretty obvious math error in it.  If they want $2000 for fees, and you paid $72, the upcharge should be $1928.  They added an EXTRA $10k by mistake.  Let's hope it's only a mistake here, instead of at the credit card processing step.

So it looks like your book got a great grade, and they are evaluating it as being worth a lot of money.  Then they charged you the % of that value.  Or they just don't know what they are doing.  Either is feasible.

I got upcharged once, added $94.  Because I got a 9.8 on a Star Wars 42 Newsstand submitted under Modern.  I never could figure out how they got that number, but I didn't inquire because the odds were 50/50 that it could have been more.  At least you got a partial explanation.

[Et-Es-Go]

I estimated the grade of the book, and looked at Heritage for any recent sales, and that did not help much.  I then took the value from the bottom of the census for that book based on the grade I thought it was.

[Yorick]

On 9/11/2023 at 11:30 AM, Lightning55 said:

So it looks like your book got a great grade, and they are evaluating it as being worth a lot of money.

My understanding was that you pay the fee BEFORE they grade the book.  It sounds real shifty if CGC is basing it's fees on what they grade the book at.  "impartial third party grading" 

[Yorick]

@Et-Es-Go It appears that they adjusted the value of the book to $50,000 in order to charge you the 4% Unlimited Value "$2,000" fee.  I don't understand how $2000 becomes $11,928.  Math sucks. 

I'm very curious what book you have...

Edited September 11, 2023 by Yorick
spelling...

[Lightning55]

On 9/11/2023 at 2:48 PM, Yorick said:

My understanding was that you pay the fee BEFORE they grade the book.  It sounds real shifty if CGC is basing it's fees on what they grade the book at.  "impartial third party grading" 

Your understanding is partially correct.  They can charge at both ends.  That is because some people intentionally submit high value comics at low tier costs. 

CGC depends on you to know what the grade is, hence the value, even though you are sending it to them to see what the grade is.  In Excel, that would be referred to as a circular reference.

CGC will tell you that the grading fee is higher because they have to insure it for a boatload of money.  In these cases, that is false.  You assigned a DV (Declared Value), and that is the max they are responsible for.

So if you sent in a book that was worth $50k, and used that as its DV, they did in fact have to insure it for that amount.  Which is not expensive, by the way.  But that will be their stand, and also their being responsible for handling an expensive book.

But if you had DV of $1000 on that $50k book, there was no time that they insured it for that amount.  Now that they recognize it to be a $50k book after grading, they want to charge you what you would have paid at the front end if you did the DV correctly.  So they get paid for having to insure it for a lot, but never did.

Basically, if CGC thinks that their service is adding substantial value to your book, they want to be a partner in the profit.  Yes, that's a conflict of interests.

[Lightning55]

On 9/11/2023 at 2:56 PM, Yorick said:

@Et-Es-Go It appears that they adjusted the value of the book to $50,000 in order to charge you the 4% Unlimited Value "$2,000" fee.  I don't understand how $2000 becomes $11,928.  Math sucks. 

I'm very curious what book you have...

That's a coincidence.  You determined that they based it on $50k, and I used $50k randomly in my example.  I must be a telepath.

Edited September 12, 2023 by Lightning55

[Lightning55]

On 9/11/2023 at 2:56 PM, Yorick said:

@Et-Es-Go It appears that they adjusted the value of the book to $50,000 in order to charge you the 4% Unlimited Value "$2,000" fee.  I don't understand how $2000 becomes $11,928.  Math sucks. 

I'm very curious what book you have...

If that is true, @Et-Es-Go has hit the jackpot!!!  (figured $1800, netted $50,000!!!)

[Yorick]

On 9/11/2023 at 11:59 AM, Lightning55 said:

That's a coincidence.  You determined that they based it on $50k, and I used $50 randomly in my example.  I must be a telepath.

I had to go look up the fee value percentage on the "Unlimited Value".  Nearly any book really worth submitting is going to be that tier...

[Lightning55]

On 9/11/2023 at 3:01 PM, Yorick said:

I had to go look up the fee value percentage on the "Unlimited Value".  Nearly any book really worth submitting is going to be that tier...

I'm happy when some of the books I submit hit 3 figures.

[Et-Es-Go]

Where we are now is I assigned a FMV of $1800 based on guide price since very few copies have sold.  After they made their own assessment they determined the value of the book to $20K.  So 4% of $20K is $800.  I sent in $285 based on the $1800 FMV and their other fees.  So now I owe them another $650.  OK, fine cuz it could have been more.  Charging a fee based on value in one case and then just a flat fee in other cases does not make intuitive sense to me.

[Yorick]

On 9/11/2023 at 12:04 PM, Et-Es-Go said:

Where we are now is I assigned a FMV of $1800 based on guide price since very few copies have sold.  After they made their own assessment they determined the value of the book to $20K.  So 4% of $20K is $800.  I sent in $285 based on the $1800 FMV and their other fees.  So now I owe them another $650.  OK, fine cuz it could have been more.  Charging a fee based on value in one case and then just a flat fee in other cases does not make intuitive sense to me.

That email they sent is clear as muddy water.  Why are you saying your fee is $800 when they are saying it's $2,000?  I am sooooo confused!

[Lightning55]

CGC - Confusion Generator Corp.

[Et-Es-Go]

The email I posted was first notification, and the initially must have assigned a FMV of $302,000 because to grading fee was increased to $12,078.  Now that the book is graded and they did some sort of market analysis, the grading fee is now assessed at $800, which means they assigned a new FMV of $20,000 on the book.  

[Lightning55]

On 9/11/2023 at 3:15 PM, Et-Es-Go said:

The email I posted was first notification, and the initially must have assigned a FMV of $302,000 because to grading fee was increased to $12,078.  Now that the book is graded and they did some sort of market analysis, the grading fee is now assessed at $800, which means they assigned a new FMV of $20,000 on the book.  

You can tell in the email that they did a typo.  Never meant to have anything near 5 figures. 

They wanted $2000 for the fee, so must have valued it at $50k at that time.  Now reconsidering. 

Good to know your funds are at their discretion, which seems to sway wildly in the breeze.

[comicjack]

I try not to grade anything nowadays with high value for you get killed.

[Ryan.]

I thought CGC claimed that they do not assign values to books, even though they clearly assign values to books as part of their standard fees structure.

[The Lions Den]

Same as it ever was...the house always wins.  

[Dr. Balls]

On 9/11/2023 at 1:15 PM, Et-Es-Go said:

The email I posted was first notification, and the initially must have assigned a FMV of $302,000 because to grading fee was increased to $12,078.  Now that the book is graded and they did some sort of market analysis, the grading fee is now assessed at $800, which means they assigned a new FMV of $20,000 on the book.  

Ignoring market value and established value, so they can force their own value to adjust fees after you've already sent the book in? (which is much, much higher than the other two methods - I'M SHOCKED)

That's some Wizard Magazine shizz right there along with a little hostage taking since they are holding your book and your grading fees you've already paid out of pocket, and shipping. 

Ugh. The money grubbing in this hobby is enough to make you sell your books and take up gardening.