Latest PGX scam/incompetence brought forth to market... 1 1

[mosconi]

Looks like PGX is coming up with new practices to deceive collectors.  Reprint pages are being graded as original pages and encapsulated through their professional authentication service.  A fellow CGC forum member found this page to be a reprint from Marvel Tales #2 that had been manipulated by slicing off the Reprint warning at the bottom page and then having pieces added.  Don't know how many are out there or how many more are ready to enter the marketplace, but collectors be warned. You really need to be very careful when dealing with this company...

[BigLeagueCHEW]

Would never touch anything PGX, thanks for the info 

[Buzzetta]

On 9/24/2023 at 2:23 PM, mosconi said:

Looks like PGX is coming up with new practices to deceive collectors.  Reprint pages are being graded as original pages and encapsulated through their professional authentication service.  A fellow CGC forum member found this page to be a reprint from Marvel Tales #2 that had been manipulated by slicing off the Reprint warning at the bottom page and then having pieces added.  Don't know how many are out there or how many more are ready to enter the marketplace, but collectors be warned. You really need to be very careful when dealing with this company...

 

On 9/24/2023 at 2:36 PM, BigLeagueCHEW said:

Would never touch anything PGX, thanks for the info 

Are you aware that someone recently pulled the same thing off on CGC?  They did something similar with cards and made a submission to test the graders.  The graders missed what he did.  He notified them as to what he did and they banned him from future submissions. 
 

As per his Instagram videos. 

[Buzzetta]

Here 

https://www.instagram.com/reel/CxUIOcmrMup/?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==

 

BTW a certain forum member recently pointed out how easy it is to manipulate a certain comic from being a more common second print and submitting it to CGC as a cover less first print because the only difference is on the interior cover.

There are a lot of people doing a lot of crazy things and have been able to get rid of quite a bit over the years when it came to submissions.  It’s just not frequently discussed openly. 

Edited September 25, 2023 by Buzzetta

[jaybuck43]

On 9/24/2023 at 3:48 PM, Buzzetta said:

Here 

https://www.instagram.com/reel/CxUIOcmrMup/?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==

 

BTW a certain forum member recently pointed out how easy it is to manipulate a certain comic from being a more common first print and submitting it to CGC as a cover less first print because the only difference is on the interior cover.

There are a lot of people doing a lot of crazy things and have been able to get rid of quite a bit over the years when it came to submissions.  It’s just not frequently discussed openly. 

You mean second print.  

[Buzzetta]

On 9/24/2023 at 3:53 PM, jaybuck43 said:

You mean second print.  

Yes more common second print. you could have just texted me and I would corrected it.  
 

I’ll fix it now.  I “wonder” what book it is?

Edited September 24, 2023 by Buzzetta

[Buzzetta]

And btw… the competition to CGC cards has been able to differentiate between the cuts made on the sides of cardboard from cutting presses in the factory card making process and those cut… away from the factory. 
 

I remember there have been a few instances where people had cards rejected or qualified because they were caught submitting non factory cut cards so it is possible. 

[mosconi]

On 9/24/2023 at 12:43 PM, Buzzetta said:

 

Are you aware that someone recently pulled the same thing off on CGC?  They did something similar with cards and made a submission to test the graders.  The graders missed what he did.  He notified them as to what he did and they banned him from future submissions. 
 

As per his Instagram videos. 

I've never seen that IG post or am familiar with card grading.  Seems a lot more training is needed by CGC with their card graders if people can take crafting scissors to cards and slice away without them being identified as trimmed.  That is quite an embarrassing result and I have to imagine that trimming is a rampant problem with all cards in general. 

Now do we have any videos of people trimming their comic books and then sending off to CGC to see if they could identify the intentional deception?  That would be something very troubling if trimmed books are getting through easily and consistently. 

And I was around back when the Ewert fiasco was in full swing, so I am aware CGC is far from perfect from early on. But PGX and their history of fraudulent activity is so far unrivaled in the hobby 

[Buzzetta]

On 9/24/2023 at 4:24 PM, mosconi said:

I've never seen that IG post or am familiar with card grading.  Seems a lot more training is needed by CGC with their card graders if people can take crafting scissors to cards and slice away without them being identified as trimmed.  That is quite an embarrassing result and I have to imagine that trimming is a rampant problem with all cards in general. 

Now do we have any videos of people trimming their comic books and then sending off to CGC to see if they could identify the intentional deception?  That would be something very troubling if trimmed books are getting through easily and consistently. 

And I was around back when the Ewert fiasco was in full swing, so I am aware CGC is far from perfect from early on. But PGX and their history of fraudulent activity is so far unrivaled in the hobby 

The cards in question were error cards that were factory cut so they would look the similar to what he did in the video.  With quality control issues that is pretty rare to see these days so they are considered error cards, sort of like but not to the extreme degree of getting a miscut penny from the US Mint.  The other companies have been able to discern the difference between genuine cuts and factory errors and people doing it at home.  CGC should not have missed this in my opinion. 

We do not have video of people trimming comics, but I do know the things that have been floated past me over the years as I have mentioned in other threads.  Supposedly there may be a couple of extremely marvel chipped books out there that were doctored to look as if they were chipped to disguise a slight trim job.  There are other things as well. 

PGX has missed things in both directions.  I have cracked a few over the years and sent those books to CGC with the mindset of hoping all the rest of you stay away from a PGX slab so I can continue picking certain things up from them and sending them off to CGC.  At worst I have received one full grade below.  At best I have sent a PGX book off to CGC that looked far better than the grade PGX assigned and with a press it went 2.5 grades higher.   Other books came back around .5 higher or lower. 

[mosconi]

On 9/24/2023 at 2:21 PM, Buzzetta said:

The cards in question were error cards that were factory cut so they would look the similar to what he did in the video.  With quality control issues that is pretty rare to see these days so they are considered error cards, sort of like but not to the extreme degree of getting a miscut penny from the US Mint.  The other companies have been able to discern the difference between genuine cuts and factory errors and people doing it at home.  CGC should not have missed this in my opinion. 

We do not have video of people trimming comics, but I do know the things that have been floated past me over the years as I have mentioned in other threads.  Supposedly there may be a couple of extremely marvel chipped books out there that were doctored to look as if they were chipped to disguise a slight trim job.  There are other things as well. 

PGX has missed things in both directions.  I have cracked a few over the years and sent those books to CGC with the mindset of hoping all the rest of you stay away from a PGX slab so I can continue picking certain things up from them and sending them off to CGC.  At worst I have received one full grade below.  At best I have sent a PGX book off to CGC that looked far better than the grade PGX assigned and with a press it went 2.5 grades higher.   Other books came back around .5 higher or lower. 

That's great you were fortunate with many of your PGX purchases and re-subs.  Just consider all PGX books purchased as raw comics with no resto check and that can sometimes work in your favor.  High grade expensive SA books are a much greater gamble and not something I would advise anyone to attempt unless they have excellent resto knowledge.  Even then it's a tricky situation.  For those collectors that feel they can grab a great PGX deal and pick up an authenticated Ditko signature, by all means go for it.  Just don't say you haven't been warned...

http://www.comiclink.com/img/comics/scans/RADC11E02016927_155955.jpg

Edited September 24, 2023 by mosconi

[Buzzetta]

On 9/24/2023 at 5:37 PM, mosconi said:

That's great you were fortunate with many of your PGX purchases and re-subs.  Just consider all PGX books purchased as raw comics with no resto check and that can sometimes work in your favor.  High grade expensive SA books are a much greater gamble and not something I would advise anyone to attempt unless they have excellent resto knowledge.  Even then it's a tricky situation.  For those collectors that feel they can grab a great PGX deal and pick up an authenticated Ditko signature, by all means go for it.  Just don't say you haven't been warned...

http://www.comiclink.com/img/comics/scans/RADC11E02016927_155955.jpg

I cannot help but wonder if that the guy that was put in the HOS here…  Do you remember the guy here that was selling fake Ditko autographs on lower grade ASMs?  I’m on my phone otherwise I will look for it later. 

[mosconi]

On 9/24/2023 at 2:48 PM, Buzzetta said:

I cannot help but wonder if that the guy that was put in the HOS here…  Do you remember the guy here that was selling fake Ditko autographs on lower grade ASMs?  I’m on my phone otherwise I will look for it later. 

I vaguely remember someone trying that on the boards but don't recall if he was put in HOS.  I do remember doubling over in laughter when I saw these Ditko signature books pop up on the CL website  

 

Edited September 24, 2023 by mosconi

[Ryan.]

On 9/24/2023 at 3:54 PM, Buzzetta said:

  I “wonder” what book it is?

 

[Buzzetta]

On 9/24/2023 at 7:08 PM, Ryan. said:

 

 I believe you do !

[thehumantorch]

On 9/24/2023 at 12:23 PM, mosconi said:

Looks like PGX is coming up with new practices to deceive collectors.  Reprint pages are being graded as original pages and encapsulated through their professional authentication service.  A fellow CGC forum member found this page to be a reprint from Marvel Tales #2 that had been manipulated by slicing off the Reprint warning at the bottom page and then having pieces added.  Don't know how many are out there or how many more are ready to enter the marketplace, but collectors be warned. You really need to be very careful when dealing with this company...

Good grief

[JollyComics]

On 9/24/2023 at 2:48 PM, Buzzetta said:

Here 

https://www.instagram.com/reel/CxUIOcmrMup/?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==

 

BTW a certain forum member recently pointed out how easy it is to manipulate a certain comic from being a more common first print and submitting it to CGC as a cover less second print because the only difference is on the interior cover.

There are a lot of people doing a lot of crazy things and have been able to get rid of quite a bit over the years when it came to submissions.  It’s just not frequently discussed openly. 

Provocateur and opportunist.

He has over 1.3 million followers.

 

[mattn792]

On 9/24/2023 at 4:48 PM, Buzzetta said:

I cannot help but wonder if that the guy that was put in the HOS here…  Do you remember the guy here that was selling fake Ditko autographs on lower grade ASMs?  I’m on my phone otherwise I will look for it later. 

He is an official HOSer -- 

 You even wrote up the nomination.

[jimbo_7071]

On 9/24/2023 at 4:24 PM, mosconi said:

I've never seen that IG post or am familiar with card grading.  Seems a lot more training is needed by CGC with their card graders if people can take crafting scissors to cards and slice away without them being identified as trimmed.  That is quite an embarrassing result and I have to imagine that trimming is a rampant problem with all cards in general. 

Now do we have any videos of people trimming their comic books and then sending off to CGC to see if they could identify the intentional deception?  That would be something very troubling if trimmed books are getting through easily and consistently. 

And I was around back when the Ewert fiasco was in full swing, so I am aware CGC is far from perfect from early on. But PGX and their history of fraudulent activity is so far unrivaled in the hobby 

My gut instincts tell me that micro-trimming is still getting through easily. They would not have caught Ewert if before and after pics of some of the books hadn't surfaced.

I would not be surprised if micro-color touch is getting through as well.

[Math Teacher]

On 9/24/2023 at 3:24 PM, mosconi said:

And I was around back when the Ewert fiasco was in full swing, so I am aware CGC is far from perfect from early on. But PGX and their history of fraudulent activity is so far unrivaled in the hobby 

Could you please elaborate about the Ewert fiasco? This was before I joined the boards in 2018. Thank you!

[namisgr]

On 9/25/2023 at 7:26 AM, Math Teacher said:

Could you please elaborate about the Ewert fiasco? This was before I joined the boards in 2018. Thank you!