Mark Millar: Marvel, DC, And Independent Comics Only Make Up 9% Of Comic Book Market In North America 3 3

[VintageComics]

On 9/29/2023 at 8:22 AM, StingerMcK said:

The comic market is dying!  Again!

Meanwhile, this week:

Quote

It's Wednesday, so.... New Comic Book Day!

 

A big week again, with 581 new comic books released today. That is 581 releases, including variants.

 

If we don't count variants, there are 255 actual new issues!

 

How many new comics relative to the population were released in 1940?

1950?

1960?

[VintageComics]

On 9/29/2023 at 10:07 AM, F For Fake said:

On 9/28/2023 at 6:06 PM, Dr. Balls said:

... I’m not sure what the draw is to Manga and not regular comics (stories? Art? World building? I don’t have any idea).

Culture is definitely a part of it, as Japanese influence on American pop-culture continues to grow.

However, I'd suspect a big part of the equation is value. You can buy a standard manga book/trade, clocking in about 200-250 pages, for $8-$10.

What do mainstream American comics cost these days? $5? For 22 pages you can read in 5 minutes? The value just isn't there.

In case ANYONE had any doubts, I just spent the day at the Javits' Centre for the NYCCC and the main entrance is COMPLETELY ENGULFED in either Manga material or Asian / Japanese material.

In fact, I would estimate that HALF THE ROOM is either Manga or Asian material. 

There's not an American company in sight as you walk in. 

Even Marvel is relegated to the BACK of the room. Disney is even further back from Marvel.

So at this point we may as well petition to change the name of the NYC Comic Con to the NYC Manga Con, because there are a fraction of the comic dealers in the room that were there last year.

 

Is anyone paying attention to this?

The Japanese AUTO MARKET has closely followed the same pattern as the American COMIC MARKET.

Over the course of a few decades, they have completely saturated and taken over the entire market. 

God, I hate being right all the time. 

 

I'd post pics but someone might find someone mouthing a political word in the pics and hump the button. 

[VintageComics]

Just kidding. 

This is what you see as you enter one of the largest "comic book shows" in the country. 

Edited October 12, 2023 by VintageComics

[VintageComics]

And this is Marvel's set up by comparison. 

They are set up at the BACK half of the room behind the Asian companies. 

So, tell me: what's going on with comics? 

 

Edited October 12, 2023 by VintageComics

[fastballspecial]

On 9/28/2023 at 8:29 PM, KCOComics said:

I know! I just wanted to show pictures from my other hobby! 

I've driven Toyotas my entire life and grab vintage toyota stuff where I can (usually to go with the Land Cruiser). Today I have 3 Toyotas, including a Yaris with almost 300k miles that drives like it just came off the assembly line. 

My employer thanks you. Our power train is unbeatable. 

[fastballspecial]

At least on the positive side comic book shows are doing better then ever.
I am on my 6th show next month and every show we increase our attendance.
I sell out for dealers months before the show I now have a wait list for dealers to 
join the show.

 

I expect in maybe 5 to 10 years shows will also slow down as we 
get older and the younger generation is not as interested, but right now as soon as
we open the doors we are busy for 4 hours straight until about 2 PM then it slows down
for an hour or two and we are get buys at 4 right before we close at 5PM. And the trick
here is that I really enjoy it from start to finish.

 

 

[Turnando]

On 10/11/2023 at 11:24 PM, VintageComics said:

So, tell me: what's going on with comics? 

 

So sad.  That looks like a Power Point slide that I created for a presentation I didn't want to give.  Where is the art, Marvel? Hopefully that is just a test screen to make sure it's plugged in.

I don't read a lot of manga but where I do (Akira, Naausica, Ghost in the Machine...) I was drawn in by some appealing art.  The writing translates poorly, imo, but I do like the art.

 

[D2]

On 10/12/2023 at 6:19 AM, Turnando said:

So sad.  That looks like a Power Point slide that I created for a presentation I didn't want to give.  Where is the art, Marvel? Hopefully that is just a test screen to make sure it's plugged in.

I don't read a lot of manga but where I do (Akira, Naausica, Ghost in the Machine...) I was drawn in by some appealing art.  The writing translates poorly, imo, but I do like the art.

 

Ghost in the Machine? The 1993 cult cyber hit movie starring Karen Allen?

Oh I LOVE that film!

[Dr. Balls]

I know absolutely nothing about Manga, but MAN - those inflatables are super cool and they utilize the space effectively. I guess those guys understand the power of the social media photo op.

[WolverineX]

On 9/27/2023 at 10:43 AM, MattTheDuck said:

bin.  Maybe we need a "Manga" forum on the Boards.

Yes,  manga is king now. 

[WolverineX]

On 10/12/2023 at 11:30 AM, Dr. Balls said:

I know absolutely nothing about Manga, but MAN - those inflatables are super cool and they utilize the space effectively. I guess those guys understand the power of the social media photo op.

Watch some anime.  Demon slayers or attack on titan.  

[The humble Watcher lurking]

On 10/12/2023 at 11:30 AM, Dr. Balls said:

I know absolutely nothing about Manga, but MAN - those inflatables are super cool and they utilize the space effectively. I guess those guys understand the power of the social media photo op.

Here is a popular Manga character right now. Sold over 25 million copies in the last few years. Marvel and DC would love those sales.

https://comicbook.com/anime/news/chainsaw-man-manga-sales-tatsuki-fujimoto/

Chainsaw Man is on the rise. In the wake of season one, Tatsuki Fujimoto's hit franchise is thriving, and there is more to come. Anime fans are begging for more content, and when it comes to the Chainsaw Man manga, Denji is working through a new arc these days. And thanks to the series' success, Chainsaw Man has hit record. Sales with just 15 volumes to its name.

The update comes from Chainsaw Man straight as the manga just released its 15th volume in Japan. A special ad was included in the volume overseas, and it confirms the manga's sales figures. There are currently 26 million copies of Chainsaw Man in circulation, so copies of the manga are flying off the shelves still.

 

[Dr. Balls]

On 10/12/2023 at 5:58 PM, The humble Watcher lurking said:

Here is a popular Manga character right now. Sold over 25 million copies in the last few years. Marvel and DC would love those sales.

https://comicbook.com/anime/news/chainsaw-man-manga-sales-tatsuki-fujimoto/

Chainsaw Man is on the rise. In the wake of season one, Tatsuki Fujimoto's hit franchise is thriving, and there is more to come. Anime fans are begging for more content, and when it comes to the Chainsaw Man manga, Denji is working through a new arc these days. And thanks to the series' success, Chainsaw Man has hit record. Sales with just 15 volumes to its name.

The update comes from Chainsaw Man straight as the manga just released its 15th volume in Japan. A special ad was included in the volume overseas, and it confirms the manga's sales figures. There are currently 26 million copies of Chainsaw Man in circulation, so copies of the manga are flying off the shelves still.

 

I have heard the guys I work with talk about this character - it's pretty cool to see what he looks like!

[VintageComics]

On 10/12/2023 at 6:19 AM, Turnando said:

So sad.  That looks like a Power Point slide that I created for a presentation I didn't want to give.  Where is the art, Marvel? Hopefully that is just a test screen to make sure it's plugged in.

That was Marvel's actual presentation. They were rehearsing live when I took that pic. 

I walked by today and that was the display they were using, having some sort of a panel or a draw. It was ridiculously sad. Not sure what's going on but Marvel's head is NOT in the game. 

Remember when Marvel ruled the comic world? 

Remember when Valiant was a thing?

Valiant had a small booth at the far left end of the hall, towards the back of the room. They looked like a double-size artist's table and nothing more. 

On 10/12/2023 at 11:30 AM, Dr. Balls said:

I know absolutely nothing about Manga, but MAN - those inflatables are super cool and they utilize the space effectively. I guess those guys understand the power of the social media photo op.

The East seem to be operating with their eyes wide open and I think it's because they don't worry about the same things that most Westerners do. Asian society has a different value system. Much like the Samurai stuff we read about (I'm a huge Frank Miller fan BTW) their society, and by extension the individual people are all predicated on quality, honor, integrity and longevity...things that are timeless. So as a whole, their society seems to be more minded about outcomes.

How does this relate to the discussion?

Well, if an individual makes a terrible product it reflects poorly on them as individuals. This may be hard to believe in this day and age, but in the East, they still actually care about the product you bought even after they've taken your money and you've left the business.

By extension when a business worries more about the RIGHT things like making quality customer products with intrinsic value rather than only be interested in taking their money, they are able to hit their target audience with a much clearer vision of their direction. 

This is where the West used to be at.

 

But when a business focuses on the wrong things, like following trends / fads, pleasing interest groups or primarily pleasing corporate board rooms which is how Marvel and DC have been run all these years, and the focus is on profit over quality as though they are not worried at all about outcomes, that business MUST necessarily collapse in on itself. 

Marvel and DC are basically just monetization tools now for bigger corporations. Those corporations don't care about the people or the product. Just the profit. 

This is why I keep stressing that raising better kids is the solution to everything. Raising better kids makes them less greedy, better employees, better co-workers, better problem solvers. 

Those kids will grow up to work in those large companies but will be more minded about outcomes and for that reason, make better decisions over all. 

--------------------------------

To both drive the point home and also to expand the discussion, the 90s comic scene followed the exact same pattern that we are seeing with Marvel / DC et all.

In the early 90s, publishers realized that they could get you to part with your money if they sold items with 'artificial' value in them...so they started putting artificial value in EVERYTHING and marketing comics to make you believe the value was real. 

Limited edition cover? Worth more. 

Variants? Worth more. 

Eventually, anything printed from some red-hot publishers? Worth more.

And then the market collapsed and everything was worthless. 

What, nobody saw that coming? 

Let's face it MOST consumers are biased and unable to think clearly when engaged in consumerism but when you distance yourself from the crowd, it becomes FAR easier to see what's happening.

I was my local comic shop's best customer in 1990 but I wasn't there speculating on comics. I was just buying the same old BA and SA things while everyone else just seemed to be gung ho on some get rich scheme. 

The 1990s collapse and the 2022 correction were both rooted in fundamentally the same thing: People were paying TOO MUCH for things so the prices of those things corrected. 

Why did they pay too much?

Because they believed they were going to 'lose out' on a trend.

And that human behavior trend took out the entire market and took years to recover. 

---------------------------------

It goes without saying that how you recover matters as well. 

If you DON'T return to putting out a quality product with intrinsic value and you manage to stave off disaster somehow by getting people to buy your product, you are not solving the problem. You are only delaying the inevitable collapse.

Why?

Because THE THING THAT GOT YOU THERE IS A QUALITY PRODUCT. 

Not the marketed, artificial value. 

So, if Marvel or DC want to recover, they are going to have to bite the bullet, eat some dirt (OK, eat a lot of dirt), rebuild and start putting out a quality product again. 

Nobody has ever managed to improve meaningfully without eating a little dirt. That's actually the secret to every greatest success. 

Edited October 13, 2023 by VintageComics

[VintageComics]

On 10/12/2023 at 7:58 PM, The humble Watcher lurking said:

Here is a popular Manga character right now. Sold over 25 million copies in the last few years. Marvel and DC would love those sales.

https://comicbook.com/anime/news/chainsaw-man-manga-sales-tatsuki-fujimoto/

Chainsaw Man is on the rise. In the wake of season one, Tatsuki Fujimoto's hit franchise is thriving, and there is more to come. Anime fans are begging for more content, and when it comes to the Chainsaw Man manga, Denji is working through a new arc these days. And thanks to the series' success, Chainsaw Man has hit record. Sales with just 15 volumes to its name.

The update comes from Chainsaw Man straight as the manga just released its 15th volume in Japan. A special ad was included in the volume overseas, and it confirms the manga's sales figures. There are currently 26 million copies of Chainsaw Man in circulation, so copies of the manga are flying off the shelves still.

 

Does anyone read this?

What is the appeal? Why is it so popular?

At first glance it looks like a gore fest. 

[WolverineX]

On 10/12/2023 at 10:38 PM, VintageComics said:

Does anyone read this?

What is the appeal? Why is it so popular?

At first glance it looks like a gore fest. 

I haven't.  But if you want something more mainstream try out demon slayers, full metal alchemist, or attack on titan

[The humble Watcher lurking]

On 10/12/2023 at 10:38 PM, VintageComics said:

Does anyone read this?

What is the appeal? Why is it so popular?

At first glance it looks like a gore fest. 

Here is a review of the first book.  It`s really getting popular. Think of how the buzz was about The Walking Dead before it exploded into pop culture history. This manga also has an anime show that is just as popular.  

 

[The humble Watcher lurking]

On 10/12/2023 at 11:45 PM, WolverineX said:

I haven't.  But if you want something more mainstream try out demon slayers, full metal alchemist, or attack on titan

All good picks.  I add Berserk to the list as well.

[Cat]

On 10/13/2023 at 10:34 PM, YoraroY said:

That's my question about all Manga; who is buying this 💩? Manga sucks 🤮 

You can't just say that. There's manga about tennis, for goodness sake. It caters for every taste. It's not that it sucks, it's that you haven't found the right book for you yet. 

[Beastfeast]

On 10/12/2023 at 11:03 PM, The humble Watcher lurking said:

All good picks.  I add Berserk to the list as well.

Can’t recommend Berserk enough. The end of the Golden Age arc is one of the biggest gut punches I’ve ever read in comics. 
 

just solid character development, fantastic design, and horrifying action.