Revisiting NEW GODS 0

[Prince Namor]

ON NEWSSTANDS JUNE 1971

New Gods #4 - Original Art for the cover and an Interior Page!

[shadroch]

Marvel completely outmaneuvered DC on the price increases.  They did a one-month bump to 25 cents, convincing DC that this would become the standard format for comics, and then went back to the usual format.  DC, being the bunch of dinosaurs they were, couldn't adapt fast enough and lost significant market share.  It's almost as if someone in charge at Marvel might have understood how to play the game. 

[Zonker]

On 10/8/2023 at 9:06 AM, shadroch said:

Marvel completely outmaneuvered DC on the price increases.  They did a one-month bump to 25 cents, convincing DC that this would become the standard format for comics, and then went back to the usual format.  DC, being the bunch of dinosaurs they were, couldn't adapt fast enough and lost significant market share.  It's almost as if someone in charge at Marvel might have understood how to play the game. 

I think that is largely true.  From what I've read, DC had locked in a long-term paper supply contract which limited their ability to drop back to the thinner 20 cent format when they saw the hit they were taking.  It kind of makes sense that-- as the larger company at the time-- DC would be looking to exploit any economies of scale to try to gain some advantage.

What is less clear to me is why did Goodman bother a couple of months later to increase Marvel's cover price to 25 cents for a single month?  If he suspected DC would take a hit at the higher price point, why not stick with 15 cents as long as possible, then go directly to 20 cents without the 1-month detour to 25 cents? 

Do we think there was some kind of collusion between the two companies that Goodman undercut after his 1-month head-fake? 

[shadroch]

Collusion is such a nasty word.  Wasn't Cadence in charge at this point, having bought Goodman out?    It sounds, to me, like Stan flexed his muscles and showed his new bosses what thirty years in the business had taught him. I've never understood why the new outside owners promoted a guy who only had a job because he was a distant relative of the former owner. They must have seen something in him on those rare days he wasn't out playing golf or stabbing his former employees in the back.

[Prince Namor]

On 10/8/2023 at 11:17 AM, Zonker said:

I think that is largely true.  From what I've read, DC had locked in a long-term paper supply contract which limited their ability to drop back to the thinner 20 cent format when they saw the hit they were taking.  It kind of makes sense that-- as the larger company at the time-- DC would be looking to exploit any economies of scale to try to gain some advantage.

What is less clear to me is why did Goodman bother a couple of months later to increase Marvel's cover price to 25 cents for a single month?  If he suspected DC would take a hit at the higher price point, why not stick with 15 cents as long as possible, then go directly to 20 cents without the 1-month detour to 25 cents? 

Do we think there was some kind of collusion between the two companies that Goodman undercut after his 1-month head-fake? 

There are some myths and truths scattered in the story... most people just repeat the same old lies they've been told, but there are some who've actually done research on it...

http://marvelsilverage.blogspot.com/2020/04/exposed-myths-of-marvels-silver-age.html

[Prince Namor]

On 10/8/2023 at 11:17 AM, Zonker said:

I think that is largely true.  From what I've read, DC had locked in a long-term paper supply contract which limited their ability to drop back to the thinner 20 cent format when they saw the hit they were taking.  It kind of makes sense that-- as the larger company at the time-- DC would be looking to exploit any economies of scale to try to gain some advantage.

What is less clear to me is why did Goodman bother a couple of months later to increase Marvel's cover price to 25 cents for a single month?  If he suspected DC would take a hit at the higher price point, why not stick with 15 cents as long as possible, then go directly to 20 cents without the 1-month detour to 25 cents? 

Do we think there was some kind of collusion between the two companies that Goodman undercut after his 1-month head-fake? 

Stan... again, if anyone cares to read the comics and see the information that's out there, was actually on vacation at the time. He didn't dialogue any of the books (though Houseroy was already ghosting for him some even before he left) over a 3-4 month timeframe. Chip Goodman would have officially been publisher at the time, though Martin was available until part way through 1972. 

It was actually at this time, during Stan's absence that Marvel continued pumping out those Kirby reprints, and Houseroy was actually at least TRYING to come up with new content, albeit based upon other writers source material (Conan the Barbarian, Tomb of Dracula, Adam Warlock, Werewolf by Night); that Marvel finally advanced to the #1 publisher spot.

[Zonker]

On 10/8/2023 at 11:48 AM, Prince Namor said:

There are some myths and truths scattered in the story... most people just repeat the same old lies they've been told, but there are some who've actually done research on it...

http://marvelsilverage.blogspot.com/2020/04/exposed-myths-of-marvels-silver-age.html

 Thanks!  That's a great article, I hadn't seen it before.  But he too is mystified why Goodman bothered to do his 25 cent one-month price jump.

Quote

Just why Martin even bothered to do that for a single month will forever remain a mystery. He could have just as easily gone to straight 20 cents for 36 pages, still offered the big discount to the distributors, and saved himself a lot of hassle. It seems that Goodman didn't share his full plan - if he actually had one - with his editorial team.

He does mention that Infantino at DC didn't get final sales numbers for a year later, so maybe DC didn't know how bad their 25 cent books were doing until 10 months in, when they reverted to 20 cents.  But there is an Irwin Donenfeld interview I've quoted before that says before he retired and Infantino took over, Donenfeld had people working for him onsite at the distributors' warehouses, to provide him accurate sales numbers.  So maybe it was just Infantino flying blind, and Goodman instead was privy to some information that the planned 25 cent format was a sales loser, letting him reverse course much sooner.  

[Prince Namor]

On 10/8/2023 at 12:30 PM, Zonker said:

He does mention that Infantino at DC didn't get final sales numbers for a year later, so maybe DC didn't know how bad their 25 cent books were doing until 10 months in, when they reverted to 20 cents.  But there is an Irwin Donenfeld interview I've quoted before that says before he retired and Infantino took over, Donenfeld had people working for him onsite at the distributors' warehouses, to provide him accurate sales numbers.  So maybe it was just Infantino flying blind, and Goodman instead was privy to some information that the planned 25 cent format was a sales loser, letting him reverse course much sooner.  

Most likely, this is why there's believed to be the collusion rumors. For DC to make that jump, they'd have had to make the paper arrangements, and to get the best deal possible, make it for up to a year.

If Goodman made a gentlemen's agreement with DC, to both raise prices, but then decided against it, DC would already be in their third month of the agreement, with another 2 months in preparation - when they realized what he'd done - it would be nearly impossible to back out. Goodman just didn't make arrangements to do it long term, but rather just for a month with some additional books. 

Stan Lee would've had nothing to do with it. 

[Prince Namor]

On 10/8/2023 at 12:13 PM, Prince Namor said:

Stan... again, if anyone cares to read the comics and see the information that's out there, was actually on vacation at the time. He didn't dialogue any of the books (though Houseroy was already ghosting for him some even before he left) over a 3-4 month timeframe. Chip Goodman would have officially been publisher at the time, though Martin was available until part way through 1972. 

It was actually at this time, blah, blah, blah, that Marvel finally advanced to the #1 publisher spot.

Actually, this is incorrect. Marvel finally achieved that spot in the last half of 1972. When Goodman stepped down and Stan Lee coerced the company to dump Chip and let him be publisher. 

This Ad ran in Spring 1973 in distributor trade journals aimed at periodical retailers right before cover prices increased for EVERYONE to 25 cents.

What did Marvel finally have to do to become the #1 publisher?

It was simple. They glutted the market.

In September thru December 1972, Marvel released 150 titles to DC's 131 and they realized that all the character creation, new stories, artwork - none of it made a difference. Just dwarf your competition in as much reprint material as you can (it was cheap) and sprinkle in a few new books - before running off the creators who do it for you. Convince your fan base that THEY are culture lovers by buying your boos and wa-la, the Zombies will follow.

In 1973, with Goodman no longer putting the breaks to how many books they could release, Marvel put out 556 titles to DC's 397. The glut was on. 

Overall individual sales would fall for the next 15 years.

 

[shadroch]

Damnation. You'd think Stan and Company were running a business or something. How dare they create demand for their product? 

Stans's job, Jacks's job, everyone's job was to sell books. Stan succeeded.  His company lost its most prominent artist and didn't lose a beat. Stans's company beat its Distinguished Competition for the first time after Jack jumped ship. 

1957- Jack shows up and claims he will save the struggling company

1962- Five years after Kirby "saved" the company, Marvel is still struggling and about to close.

1970- Jack leaves Marvel to work with the much larger DC.

1972- Marvel surpasses DC.  The first of many "failures" that followed Stan for the rest of his career.  Kirby's grand experiment fizzles out, and he wears out his welcome at DC.  His star is in decline while Stan's continues to rise. 

1975 Stan brings back Jack, with great hype and mixed feelings from fans.  It is fair to say Kirby's last run with Marvel wasn't a huge success. 

Anyway, we are at issue 4 of the book with the confusing title.   A name I'm sure went over well in the Deep South.

I'd have shown the four books as they were published, as they interlocking storylines.

[Prince Namor]

ON NEWSSTANDS AUGUST 1971

New Gods #5 - Written, Drawn and Edited by Jack Kirby (inked by Mike Royer)

Cover by Jack Kirby (inks by Mike Royer)

FINALLY Colletta was gone and Mike Royer has joined to give Kirby one of his best inker's ever.

Part ONE:

Edited October 9, 2023 by Prince Namor

[Prince Namor]

ON NEWSSTANDS AUGUST 1971

New Gods #5 - Written, Drawn and Edited by Jack Kirby (inked by Mike Royer)

Part TWO:

[Prince Namor]

ON NEWSSTANDS AUGUST 1971

New Gods #5 - Letters from #7 about this issue...

[Ken Aldred]

Ever since I saw Kirby's Fourth World comics on the newsstand back in the 70s, I've always loved the energy in his artwork and its storytelling.

Yes, his dialogue might be overblown and in-your-face to metal intensity, but it's very, very entertaining.

Sometimes, that's good enough.

 

 

 

Edited October 11, 2023 by Ken Aldred

[Prince Namor]

Kirby really started to kick things into gear with #5, but now, we're about to get two of the best issues back to back of the whole series...

[Prince Namor]

ON NEWSSTANDS OCTOBER 1971

New Gods #6 - Edited, Written and Drawn by Jack Kirby (Inked, Brushed and Blackened by Mike Royer)

Cover by Jack Kirby (inks by Vince Colletta)

Part ONE:

[Prince Namor]

ON NEWSSTANDS OCTOBER 1971

New Gods #6 - Edited, Written and Drawn by Jack Kirby (Inked, Brushed and Blackened by Mike Royer)

Part TWO:

[Prince Namor]

Imagine owning this piece of original art!

[Prince Namor]

The letters page to #8 featuring the reactions to this issue:

[Zonker]

With "Glory Boat" Kirby edges into his probably-mixed feelings about the then-current Vietnam War.  No doubt this conflict was in the back of his mind when he conceived of two rival worlds fighting a proxy war here on planet Earth.