Revisiting NEW GODS 0

[Prince Namor]

As I said, one of my favorite lesser known issues of the series is this one (#5), and one of the reasons is Kirby addressing the sexism of Stan Lee's dialoguing... Barda is one of my favorite Fourth World characters and Kirby, rather than preaching, brings a sense of humor to showing her power. 

[Prince Namor]

Lee's females tended to faint... even when gifted with incredible power. No matter how Jack wrote them, Stan had a way of stealing their power. Barda takes the fight right to her opponents. 

[Prince Namor]

I love this panel... they think that they have Mister Miracle beaten, and laugh and gloat, not realizing he's smiling behind them...

[Prince Namor]

Barda tries to go soft, but Scott reminds her of just how powerful she is. 

An example of Lee's sexism.

[Prince Namor]

As much as I loved this issue... some of you know what's coming next!

[Prince Namor]

ON NEWSSTANDS SEPTEMBER 1971

Mister Miracle #5 - Written, Drawn and Edited by Jack Kirby (inked by Mike Royer)

We also get a short Scott Free story, showing us some of the history behind the character...

Edited November 9, 2023 by Prince Namor

[Prince Namor]

Letters Page from #7 about this issue:

[Dr. Haydn]

On 11/9/2023 at 3:47 PM, Prince Namor said:

As I said, one of my favorite lesser known issues of the series is this one (#5), and one of the reasons is Kirby addressing the sexism of Stan Lee's dialoguing... Barda is one of my favorite Fourth World characters and Kirby, rather than preaching, brings a sense of humor to showing her power. 

No doubt Big Barda was modeled in part on Roz Kirby. Jack's wife was, from all accounts, a no-nonsense type who could be tough as nails when the situation called for it. She was certainly his staunchest defender.

[Prince Namor]

ON NEWSSTANDS NOVEMBER 1971

Mister Miracle #6 - Supervising, Theorizing, and Pencillizing by Jack Kirby 

Nuts, Bolts, Rivets and Brush by Mike Royer

Cover by Jack Kirby (inks by Mike Royer)

Kirby really let's loose on feelings about Stan (AND Houseroy) in one of the funniest (for me) stories of the entire Furth World. Big Barda, like Roz, saw right through Funky and has an immediate dislike of him! Jack even plays around with the credit box...

Part ONE:

 

 

Edited November 18, 2023 by Prince Namor

[Prince Namor]

ON NEWSSTANDS NOVEMBER 1971

Mister Miracle #6 - 

Part TWO:

 

[Prince Namor]

The letters in Issue #8 responding to THIS issue:

[Prince Namor]

ON NEWSSTANDS NOVEMBER 1971

Mister Miracle #6 - 

A short 2 page Scott Free segment where Metron warns Scott about the chemicals Granny puts in the food...

[Dr. Haydn]

Ol' Funky sure had a way with words! Surely no woman in 1971 would have found his banter endearing?

[The humble Watcher lurking]

On 11/18/2023 at 1:07 AM, Prince Namor said:

ON NEWSSTANDS NOVEMBER 1971

Mister Miracle #6 - Supervising, Theorizing, and Pencillizing by Jack Kirby 

Nuts, Bolts, Rivets and Brush by Mike Royer

Cover by Jack Kirby (inks by Mike Royer)

Kirby really let's loose on feelings about Stan (AND Houseroy) in one of the funniest (for me) stories of the entire Furth World. Big Barda, like Roz, saw right through Funky and has an immediate dislike of him! Jack even plays around with the credit box...

Part ONE:

 

 

I wonder if Stan Lee or Roy Thomas ever said anything publicly about Jack Kirby`s parody of them? 

[The humble Watcher lurking]

On 11/9/2023 at 4:47 PM, Prince Namor said:

As I said, one of my favorite lesser known issues of the series is this one (#5), and one of the reasons is Kirby addressing the sexism of Stan Lee's dialoguing... Barda is one of my favorite Fourth World characters and Kirby, rather than preaching, brings a sense of humor to showing her power. 

That`s Jack Kirby`s answer to the critics who said he couldn`t draw beautiful women.

[Zonker]

On 11/19/2023 at 11:42 AM, The humble Watcher lurking said:

I wonder if Stan Lee or Roy Thomas ever said anything publicly about Jack Kirby`s parody of them? 

Roy said this in the Jack Kirby Collector #74:

Quote

I mean, obviously, when you go to Kamandi and The Demon, this is not the same inspired stuff as New Gods was. It was a step down for Jack, even if it in some ways was maybe more successful, and he starts saying, “Well, you know, I don’t know, I just haven’t been really all that happy there,” made some mumbling sounds, and, “What would Stan think, do you think, if I were to want to come back?”

I had no question. He wasn’t really talking to me so much. I was officially the editor-in-chief, but Stan was still there and he would make the ultimate decision as the publisher. So I said, “Jack, Stan would really like you back. He obviously never wanted you to leave.”

I wanted to point out that he wasn’t given any choice, but instead I just said, “He didn’t want you to leave. He’d be overjoyed to have you come back.” I said, “The only thing in the way, really— he was kind of hurt and bothered when you did that Funky Flashman stuff in that one title, where you made a character who was a rather vicious—.” You know, I’m just honest with Jack. I mean, I didn’t know him that well, but I’m going to tell him the truth, because I knew how Stan had felt about it. I said, “Now, you had this character called Houseroy.” I said, “I didn’t mind about that because I didn’t feel you were really aiming that at me. I was just Stan’s flunky and this and that.” OK, so I am Stan’s flunky or whatever. And Houseroy is a clever name. I didn’t really mind that much. And I was almost a sympathetic character. But it was such a nasty lampoon of Stan.

And Jack gives this nervous little laugh and says, “Well, you know, it was all in fun.” And I had to pretend to let that go, because if there was one thing I was sure about, it was that Funky Flashman was not “all in fun.” It was Jack, it was his repressed—as close as he had come to slugging Stan in the nose. But I just pretended to believe that it was all in fun and just let that go, and I said, “I’m sure we could arrange something.” And it took him a little while. I don’t know if Jack got cold feet….

But suddenly, several months later—by this time I’d quit (as editor-in-chief), and Stan and I were on good terms once we weren’t arguing over things anymore; so I came in one day, as I did two or three days a week to check things out, and by that time Len (Wein) and Marv (Wolfman) were the people in charge. I forget which of them it was that week. And Stan calls me into his office and says, “Listen, I’ve got news! Jack’s coming back!”

 

[Prince Namor]

On 11/19/2023 at 6:24 AM, Dr. Haydn said:

Ol' Funky sure had a way with words! Surely no woman in 1971 would have found his banter endearing?

I love HER response. LOL

[Prince Namor]

Geez, Houseroy is such a phony. 

He stole from Kirby so bad, with Morbius, and getting Starlin to 'beef up' Thanos (to resemble Darkseid), and of course bringing back the Vision, etc. etc. - AND stole original artwork of his from Marvel.

AND Houseroy is the one who led the charge of 'Kirby can't write' and putting down the New Gods work. If you read the fanzine's from that time - No one was criticizing Kirby's writing in the Fourth World books. The only one's mad were the MMMS nerds, who didn't know how to read a comic without Stan holding their hand or when it was written in the simplest possible way. Houseroy was the one who sabotaged Kirby and turned the Marvel new generation editors against him.

And why wouldn't he? He was a company man. And...

Kirby made a complete dunce out of Houseroy at least three times during this period. First when Thomas told Lee to not let Kirby write, Lee let Kirby write. Second when Thomas wanted to work with Kirby on the FF, Kirby agreed but said he would only do so if Thomas supplied a full script and Kirby played no role in the plotting. It's obvious Kirby knew Thomas would back down and only said he would work from a full script because he wanted to humiliate Thomas. Third, when Thomas later tried to rope Kirby in to the "What if the FF were the original Marvel bullpen" story Kirby refused to do it and then when Thomas said he would go ahead and do it with another artist Kirby undercut Thomas by writing the story himself and not only was Thomas not allowed to write the story Thomas had wanted, Kirby even wrote Thomas out of the story, replacing Thomas with Sol Brodsky.

LOL

Yeah... no bad blood there.

[Mr Sneeze]

On 11/9/2023 at 4:55 PM, Prince Namor said:

Barda tries to go soft, but Scott reminds her of just how powerful she is. 

An example of Lee's sexism.

When I reread the silver age FF a fews years back, I would stop at these moments, because there are many and read them to my wife because comedy is where you find it. It got a bit better for Sue in the bronze age age but I feel like Byrne was the first to take her seriously. Stan never did.

[Prince Namor]

On 11/24/2023 at 12:32 AM, Mr Sneeze said:

When I reread the silver age FF a fews years back, I would stop at these moments, because there are many and read them to my wife because comedy is where you find it. It got a bit better for Sue in the bronze age age but I feel like Byrne was the first to take her seriously. Stan never did.

Yes. Byrne actually went out of his way to make her more powerful.