What are the top 5 Pedigree’s in your opinion? 7 7

[lou_fine]

On 10/19/2023 at 11:25 PM, sfcityduck said:

MH2 maybe.  But the original MH collection?  I doubt it. He sold the early Actions for what?  $20K. That's a long way from a million. And those were sold later in the process several years after he got the collection.

 

On 10/20/2023 at 6:44 AM, action1kid said:

20k in 1977 probably bought more than a million today. Of course I’m exaggerating, but by how much?

There is absolutely zero chance that the early set of MH Actions (i.e. Actions 1 - 22/23) that was brokered by Snyder to Anderson was done for only $20K, because that would mean that Chuck had sold them for less than guide which is something that he would definitely NOT do with the Edgar Church books.  

Although it's been years and more than a full decade since I last talked to either Snyder or Anderson, I still remember both of them saying that the price for the Action 1 by itself was around $25K since it was already guiding for around the $12K to $15K price range back in the early 80's.  

Edited October 20, 2023 by lou_fine

[action1kid]

That’s what I remember 

[MrBedrock]

On 10/19/2023 at 5:10 PM, adamstrange said:

Chuck said he made $2 Million off the Church collection, the value of which he did not fully optimze.  Given the value of money back then, that was awful lot  and should have set him up for life.  That it didn't, was almost certainly due to Chuck's actions.

Yes. He sold the Actions way too cheap.

[sfcityduck]

On 10/20/2023 at 4:22 PM, MrBedrock said:

Yes. He sold the Actions way too cheap.

I've heard both that he sold (1) for $25K for the A1 and $20K or $25K for the rest of the early run and (2) that it was $25K for the 1 and the rest of the run altogether. I think it was (1).

But here's the thing:  The price Dave Anderson paid was $25K just for the 1.  And the seller was John Snyder.  And that was in 1984 according to the info I've seen. So Chuck appears to have sat on the Action 1 for years.  So I'm not sure why some above appear to the claim is that Chuck sold for $25K in the 70s. If he did, Snyder took a hit. I would not think that Snyder took a hit. He must have made some money, even if he was effectively just an intermediary on that transaction.

As a successful store owner of many years, this quote from Chuck probably tells you more than it does those of us who aren't store owners:

Quote

Truth be told, after selling costs and taxes, the Church books contributed less than $1,000 per week into the Mile High Comics cash flow. While that is a significant amount for a private individual, it is a very meager amount of growth capital for a struggling young company. I did my best to invest that money wisely, but by 1987, it was essentially all gone. All I was left with were the Red Raven #1, all the issues of The Spirit from Quality and Fiction House, and about 100 mixed issues that had piqued my personal interest. 

 

[action1kid]

On 10/19/2023 at 4:35 PM, batman_fan said:

I remember you Rudolf the Red Nosed Reindeer more 

Yep. That’s me

[Superman2006]

Many of you have probably already seen it, but I just came across a reproduction of the 184 page 1977 Mile High Comics Catalog as it appeared in the Comics Buyer Guide;

https://www.milehighcomics.com/catalog/page03big.html

Click on the image in the link above to make it bigger.

Some observations:

Action comics 22 and 23 appear to have still been available at that time ($145 for Action #23 in Fine); I thought I read that the dentist picked up early Actions through #23; still a possibility, but perhaps 22 and 23 were separated from the rest for a period of time.

All American #16, Batman #1, Captain America #1, Superman #1, and Whiz #2(#1) and a number of other big books were still available at that time generally in NM or NM+ condition (except for Supes #1 which was Fine) with asking prices around $2K to $4K for most ($7K for the Whiz).

I wonder what books Burrell Rowe picked in exchange for providing the funds to Chuck to buy the collection... Some big books not included in the catalog include Action 1-20, Marvel Comics #1, and Tec #27.

 

 

 

[Superman2006]

On 10/20/2023 at 7:58 PM, Superman2006 said:

I wonder what books Burrell Rowe picked in exchange for providing the funds to Chuck to buy the collection... Some big books not included in the catalog include Action 1-20, Marvel Comics #1, and Tec #27.

I continued reading the article that I provided a link to earlier in this thread ( https://www.milehighcomics.com/tales/cbg12.html ), which is an excellent read (even if I'd read it years ago &/or heard most of it secondhand), and can answer my own question above;

Apparently Chuck used his own funds to purchase the first 10K books which he hauled off initially (primarily the lower grade 1950's books; and not the higher grade 1940's books from the closet), and then he arranged funding from one of his friends / customers (not Burrell Rowe) to pull together the necessary funds to pay the Church family for the remaining 8K book. In exchange, Chuck allowed his friend to purchase a portion of the comics at 40% off 1976 Overstreet, and his friend primarily picked funny animal books.

After acquiring the 18K books, Chuck offered the Church family more money for Edgar's reference library materials that the family hadn't already thrown away. That's the point where Burrell Rowe enters the story (read the article for more details!)

Edited October 21, 2023 by Superman2006

[jimjum12]

On 10/20/2023 at 8:58 PM, Superman2006 said:

Many of you have probably already seen it, but I just came across a reproduction of the 184 page 1977 Mile High Comics Catalog as it appeared in the Comics Buyer Guide;

https://www.milehighcomics.com/catalog/page03big.html

Click on the image in the link above to make it bigger.

Some observations:

Action comics 22 and 23 appear to have still been available at that time ($145 for Action #23 in Fine); I thought I read that the dentist picked up early Actions through #23; still a possibility, but perhaps 22 and 23 were separated from the rest for a period of time.

All American #16, Batman #1, Captain America #1, Superman #1, and Whiz #2(#1) and a number of other big books were still available at that time generally in NM or NM+ condition (except for Supes #1 which was Fine) with asking prices around $2K to $4K for most ($7K for the Whiz).

I wonder what books Burrell Rowe picked in exchange for providing the funds to Chuck to buy the collection... Some big books not included in the catalog include Action 1-20, Marvel Comics #1, and Tec #27.

 

 

 

Not sure of all of his choices, but Burrell went hard for Fiction House and other esoteric publishers. He also snagged the Stunt Man #1 which I owned for a while. It was never on the master list, along with other Rowe selections. GOD BLESS ... 

-jimbo(a friend of jesus)

[Cat-Man_America]

On 10/20/2023 at 7:58 PM, Superman2006 said:

Many of you have probably already seen it, but I just came across a reproduction of the 184 page 1977 Mile High Comics Catalog as it appeared in the Comics Buyer Guide;

https://www.milehighcomics.com/catalog/page03big.html

Click on the image in the link above to make it bigger.

Some observations:

Action comics 22 and 23 appear to have still been available at that time ($145 for Action #23 in Fine); I thought I read that the dentist picked up early Actions through #23; still a possibility, but perhaps 22 and 23 were separated from the rest for a period of time.

All American #16, Batman #1, Captain America #1, Superman #1, and Whiz #2(#1) and a number of other big books were still available at that time generally in NM or NM+ condition (except for Supes #1 which was Fine) with asking prices around $2K to $4K for most ($7K for the Whiz).

I wonder what books Burrell Rowe picked in exchange for providing the funds to Chuck to buy the collection... Some big books not included in the catalog include Action 1-20, Marvel Comics #1, and Tec #27.

 

 

 

Chuck's tabloid insert in Alan Light's Comics Buyer's Guide is missing page 41 in his posting of the reprint; it's the section that included the Silver Streak from which I bought #7 & 8 from this catalog. With some retrospective sadness, I sold those books in the early 90's to help a transitional move from Oklahoma to Texas; they were very nice copies, especially the #7. 

Since getting back into comics after the advent of third party grading I've acquired a number of nice Church copies, but those two Silver Streaks never popped up again. Anyway, AFAIC, this is still the best overall pedigree. Here are a few select examples for those wanting to peruse more pedigree pics (sorry, I've already munched all the popcorn): 

 

Spoiler

 

Spoiler

Spoiler

[KCOComics]

For those of is who weren't born when Chuck bought the  MH1 collection,  this thread has been an extremely enjoyable and educational read. 

@Cat-Man_America those comics are incredible. And a great example of why the Church collection was so special. Tec18 is one of my favorite comics. 

[lou_fine]

On 10/20/2023 at 7:02 PM, jimjum12 said:

Not sure of all of his choices, but Burrell went hard for Fiction House and other esoteric publishers. He also snagged the Stunt Man #1 which I owned for a while. It was never on the master list, along with other Rowe selections. GOD BLESS ... 

-jimbo(a friend of jesus)

I have heard for certain that the entire Planet run with its gorgeous covers were snapped up by Burrell right away and then remained intact until it eventually got into Fishler's hand who kept it intact over the decades until he auctioned them off on CC a couple of years ago.  

My guess is that Church runs which were kept intact were probably some of the ones that Burrell might have picked up and this would have included some of the Fox runs like Mystery Men and Wonderworld.  I know that the Church Mystery Men run made their way into Overstreet's personal collection before they made it intact into Jon Berk's personal collection before he eventually sold them in his big auction on CC back in 2017.  Not completely sure how the Church Wonderworld run made its way into Berk's personal collection, but would not at all be suprised if it followed the same path as the Church Mystery Men run.  

Edited October 21, 2023 by lou_fine

[Robot Man]

On 10/20/2023 at 7:02 PM, jimjum12 said:

Not sure of all of his choices, but Burrell went hard for Fiction House and other esoteric publishers. He also snagged the Stunt Man #1 which I owned for a while. It was never on the master list, along with other Rowe selections. GOD BLESS ... 

-jimbo(a friend of jesus)

Apparently, once he got tired of the hobby, he stored his books in a hot TX garage. At one time, I owned a handful of mid era FH issues. They were all browned pretty bad inside the covers and I ended up selling or trading them off with no “pedigree” notation…

[GreatCaesarsGhost]

On 10/22/2023 at 10:18 AM, Robot Man said:

Apparently, once he got tired of the hobby, he stored his books in a hot TX garage. At one time, I owned a handful of mid era FH issues. They were all browned pretty bad inside the covers and I ended up selling or trading them off with no “pedigree” notation…

Excuse my ignorance, but Burrell has now left the hobby? And what about Chuck? Still in business?

[Superman2006]

On 10/22/2023 at 11:15 AM, GreatCaesarsGhost said:

On 10/22/2023 at 10:18 AM, Robot Man said:

Apparently, once he got tired of the hobby, he stored his books in a hot TX garage. At one time, I owned a handful of mid era FH issues. They were all browned pretty bad inside the covers and I ended up selling or trading them off with no “pedigree” notation…

Excuse my ignorance, but Burrell has now left the hobby? And what about Chuck? Still in business?

Yes, per Chuck's story about discovering / acquiring the Mile High collection that I linked in an earlier post, it sounds like Burrell left the hobby a while back. Chuck on the other hand, is still very much active in the business ( https://www.milehighcomics.com/ )

[MrBedrock]

On 10/22/2023 at 11:15 AM, GreatCaesarsGhost said:

Excuse my ignorance, but Burrell has now left the hobby? And what about Chuck? Still in business?

Burrel left the hobby in the mid '80's and passed away about ten years ago.

[sfcityduck]

On 10/23/2023 at 9:52 AM, MrBedrock said:

Burrel left the hobby in the mid '80's and passed away about ten years ago.

Did Lakers owner Jerry Buss at one time own the MH Planet run?

[Robot Man]

On 10/23/2023 at 9:59 AM, sfcityduck said:

Did Lakers owner Jerry Buss at one time own the MH Planet run?

I don’t believe so. He had some comics including an Action 1 I think. Wasn’t he part owner with Gretzky of the famous Honus Wagner baseball card? 

[MrBedrock]

On 10/23/2023 at 11:59 AM, sfcityduck said:

Did Lakers owner Jerry Buss at one time own the MH Planet run?

Not that I am aware if. I remember the run going to Geppi for $4000 in 1981.

[Superman2006]

On 10/23/2023 at 1:20 PM, Robot Man said:

On 10/23/2023 at 12:59 PM, sfcityduck said:

Did Lakers owner Jerry Buss at one time own the MH Planet run?

I don’t believe so. He had some comics including an Action 1 I think. Wasn’t he part owner with Gretzky of the famous Honus Wagner baseball card? 

You had the right idea, but the wrong Los Angeles sports team owner; Gretzky purchased the Honus Wagner card with Bruce McNall, who was the owner of the Los Angeles Kings at that time.

[sfcityduck]

On 10/23/2023 at 11:12 AM, Superman2006 said:

You had the right idea, but the wrong Los Angeles sports team owner; Gretzky purchased the Honus Wagner card with Bruce McNall, who was the owner of the Los Angeles Kings at that time.

Jerry Buss was the right guy when it came to comics. I'd heard he owned a really great run of Planets. Thought they were the MH. In any event, looks like he sold his collection in 1997 through Sotheby's. I've got the 1991 and 1994 Sotheby's catalogs, but not the 1997. Now I'm curious if they had a Planet run. I heard he had to sell because of money troubles with the Lakers. From the LA Times:

Remember Those Comics Your Mom Tossed? Well. . .

BY IRENE LACHER

JUNE 6, 1997 12 AM PT

TIMES STAFF WRITER

There is one overriding reason why prices are soaring for the nation’s most popular collectible.

When your mother had the chance, she made you throw it out.

The humble comic book, once damned by parents as toxic trash, is now bringing in serious cash.

“One of the common adages among collectors is ‘My mother made me throw them away,’ ” says Gary M. Carter, editor of the San Diego-based monthly the Comic Book Marketplace. “It just plants the seed so that as soon as they grow up they march back to mail-order houses and bookstores and put together the comics they were forced to get rid of. It has a tendency to keep comics rare because nobody kept them.”

Consider the scarcity--and estimated price--of a well-preserved Action Comics No. 1, one of the crown jewels of the massive collection of Dr. Jerry Buss valued at more than a quarter-million dollars. The L.A. Lakers owner’s 4,000-book trove, considered among the country’s top dozen comics collections, goes on the block next week at Sotheby’s in New York and is on view today in Beverly Hills.

Action No. 1 is considered the most important comic book ever published because it launched Superman and the age of superheroes. Buss’ copy, which cost a thin dime when it was published in June 1938, is now worth an estimated $40,000 to $50,000.

 

Edited October 23, 2023 by sfcityduck