Comics graded by CGG

[Mister_Comics]

Bugaboo put a link to one I'm selling on ebay. Second post in this thread. If that isn't good enough, I have a scanner at home. Maybe I can email you some scans. I don't know how to scan and put on the forum though.

[Bugaboo-migration]

Here you go. I copied these from your auction and re-hosted them so they'll stay up after eBay deletes them.

 

 

 

 

 

[comicwiz]

Huh? Okay, post some facts on what the intial CGC grading prices were on inception, and then the yearly spikes, followed by the percentage increases.

The economics of your earlier statements are practical, but in my experience, its much easier to saddle the promise of reduced pricing, than to sit back and really analyse the overall product/service. I've made my opinions known about CGC many times in these forums. And although I wasn't always found championing their cause, the fact remains that after having used their product and service to the extent that I have, I still feel they have a fantastic product.

 

Don't get me wrong; my initial reaction towards CGG is not entirely negative, but based on what I have seen so far, there is a lot to be desired from the CGG product, and its barely worth noting that I'm not even regarding its pricing advantage over CGC as a plus. Overlooking the product design similarities with CGC, I'm not convinced their strategy on encasing the comic in an inner-well will have practical shipping applications. In other words, the prospect of recieving a cracked CGC case doesn't give me anywhere as near an unnerving feeling as recieving a bent CGG inner-well.

[garthgantu]

Geez, Lighthouse... I would think you'd be rooting for your fellow webfoots from the land of liquid sunshine...? Do you KNOW and dislike some of the CGG principals or something?

 

BTW, the reason CGC has millions of dollars in backing is because they've slabbed 300,000 comic books at ~$25 a pop!

 

And as for us collectively joining the American League as an expansion team next year, I hear there's an opening in Toronto if you're interested

[joe_collector]

>>And although I wasn't always found championing their cause, the fact remains that after having used their product and service to the extent that I have, I still feel they have a fantastic product.

 

This has nothing to do with the product, but overall value, and the impending prospect of CGC continuing to rack prices until fewer and fewer sellers can afford to use the service.

[garthgantu]

I too am heading to WonderCon today (and tomorrow, and Sunday , and will do some recon on the CGG front.

 

It seems as though CGG has already responded to some early comments/feedback about their product, as reflected in the "Electra" (sic) example..? Maybe these guys deserve a shot, at least?

 

As for competition being good, I tend to agree with Joe_collector on this point, at least in terms of cost of service. On the other hand, the proliferation of slabbing services just about killed the sports card business 10 years ago, and the same thing could happen here.

 

I think if you're having comics slabbed in order to preserve your collection, you've gotta be happy with competition that increases your options and drive the overall costs down. If you're having comics slabbed for the purpose of turning around and selling them for 143x what you paid, then the gravy train may be grinding to a halt fairly soon, and you have every reason to be worried, angry, prematurely critical, etc.

 

Garthgantu

[Gorgo]

Thanks Bugaboo! Perhaps I'll go to the CGG website & post some suggestions.

 

I've bought a lot of books from a shop next to U/O in Eugene several years ago, could be the same folks. I remember the grades were excellent.

[Bonds25]

Why a 9.4?? I don't see anything wrong with it - why not a 9.6 or 9.8? What grade did you expect it to receive?

[Mister_Comics]

When I said; "They are more strict with the grading. Your books would probably come back graded lower or the same."

 

Let me clarify this. Some books that I had them grade were previously graded, when I got them back they were graded lower then the original grade. Only one was graded the same. None of the books were graded higher. Why? I don't know. Could be my fault in the handling, could be some other reason. The books looked the same as how I sent them. I don't know why they were graded lower. So maybe saying "they are stricter" is a poor choise of words.

 

I also want to say that its really nice of CGC to even let us post about another new grader on thier board. That says a lot for thier company.

[Lantern]

They did grade a comic that has extras with it. Posters, bookmark, and such. They encapsulated the whole set together. Which I liked. Originally all came polybagged together. Now its all graded and encapsulated.

This part of the service does interest me. The CGG webpage states that you can tell them where to encapsulate these items. On the front, back, inside the book, etc. Where did you have these items placed and are they loose inside the case? If possible can you provide a scan or description of how they did this.

 

Thanks in advance for any info you are willing to share.

[12c_Comic]

do CGG take submissions from Canada?

[fantastic_four]

Can you give us a list of the books you sent to CGG that had already been graded by CGC, as well as the grades and page whiteness descriptions each company gave them?

[towards2112]

Anyone wish to comment on the insufficiently_thoughtful_person that put up the first bid on

the first CGG listed?

I've been waiting on an actual scan of an actual product to

satisfy my curiosity. I am in the retail industry and recognize

a certain viability of the CGG. Offering an alternative to CGC

is great for everyone. Perhaps having competition can create

a broader market place for graded comics.

As to the downfall of slabbed coins, BILLIONS of coins were

and are produced every year. Meanwhile, Millions of comic

books were produced every year, I believe Marvel once stated

that Capt America had a VERY LARGE print run every month

during the WWII years. How many of those have graded 9.0

or above still remain. From 1985-1995 the major publishers had

print runs of 200k to well over 1million on several titles. Any title

selling less than 100k was well destined to be discontinued.

At my shop, it they did not sell at cover in the first six months

about half went into the quarter bin, and the rest were ratholed

in the back room for at least 2 years.

Modern run of the mill titles currently have print runs of 60k-100k.

I wouldn't dream of slabbing 99.9% of the current production.

BUT at $8.00 a crack, many of the bronze age titles in premium

condition are viable for slabbing. Many long time dealers still

have un-opened boxes of product from 1985-1995. Some day

these 'gems' may be a hot item. Most won't. Welcome to speculation.

Back to the original premise......

Billions of coins, millions of comics.

Coins stored in rolls in safety deposit boxes in bank vaults.

Comics stored in Chiquita banana boxes under the bed.

Rules of supply and demand.

I have rolls and rolls of bank rolled coins.

The banana box fell apart 35 years ago.

Multiply this scenario 100k times.

Supply and demand.

Will I send my gems in to CGG? Yes, at $8 per plus overhead.

Will I send my gems in to CGC? Yes, at $25 per plus overhead.

Will I be selective as to what I send where? Yes.

Maybe the free enterprise system will work for all.

CGG becomes a viable alternative.

CGC tightens up the ropes on their business operations, and

becomes a less monopolistic venue, enjoys a higher CSI rating,

increases their profit margin by reducing waste, streamlines the

operational aspects of their business, and makes more money

by offering better, cheaper, faster services to their clientele.

Just the humble opinions of an insufficiently_thoughtful_person that is trying to break

the $2million dollar mark for the first time in his humble little

12,000 sq ft. business.

Phil

[fantastic_four]

CGC tightens up the ropes on their business operations

This is what I'm hoping for. Even though we all want competition, we also want one company to have more legitimacy than the others to prevent problems between buyers and sellers not trusting the grading company used by both of them, and if CGC reacts in the most positive way to the upcoming competition, they've got an excellent shot at retaining their legitimacy.

 

That's not to say that CGC hasn't done a great job, nor that the graders aren't friendly, knowledgable, and dedicated people. They've transformed the comic book back issue industry, and they've have made definite positive changes to the quality of the product they offer since their inception. But there are a lot of changes they know they can make to improve their product, and as harsh as it seems to the people getting singed, I agree with you in that there's nothing like the fires of competition burning at your butt to motivate you into getting OFF of it to get improvements in place.

 

At some point, CGC will have to increase the rate at which they improve their product, and the sooner they start the planning for that, the easier it will be for them over the long haul.

 

Anyone wish to comment on the insufficiently_thoughtful_person that put up the first bid on the first CGG listed?

It's obvious to most of us that guy is quite the foolish speculator.

[towards2112]

I agree.

I'm currently in a similar situation. I'm the only legitimate business

in my community that offers what I sell. I am for all intents and

purposes a monopoly in the local community. I probably have a

legitimate 95% strangle hold on the local and semi-regional business.

I am also not sitting on my a** while I gloat about my monopoly.

I'm at the end of a long term building lease, actually ran out back in

February, negotiating for a better deal there, while looking for an

alternative land site where I can buy/build my own building,

asking my suppliers for a better deal on the products that I purchase

for resale, trying to lower the prices on my products while maintaining

a profit margin, trying to increase that 95% market share to 96%

by filling the needs and wants of the 5% of customers that are willing

to drive 80 miles into Houston or Beaumont to get the products

they want, and just generally being a nice guy. Tough hat to wear,

but it fits my head well.

CGC is in a similar situation. They don't want to see the 100%

dwindle to 95%. That's probably their current profit margin.

SO>>..they will have to trim some deadwood. Changing the 100 watt

bulbs for 75 watt bulbs is not what I'm talking about.

They'll have to put off buying the latest flamethrower computers with

megazillion gigs of space, they'll have to put off the new $400 chairs

for the offices, they'll have to re-negotiate a better deal with the

suppliers of office supplies, they'll have to negotiate a better deal

with the 'well' and slabbing suppliers, probably quadrupling their

purchases for a 7-12% price reduction, they'll probably have to

layoff some lower level employees that do redundant labor tasks,

while asking upper eschelon employees to do more menial and

labourous tasks previously delegated to lower tier employees.

AGAIN, welcome to the free enconomic system.

I AM ABSOLUTELY POSITIVE that CGC will change. The fact

that years ago they invented and stepped into the market is

a good signpost that they can change. Hopefully they are not

so rooted in they're business stance that they cannot see the

direction of the wind. I'm also absolutely sure they have a business

plan for this inveitabality. Look at the coin market, the card market,

time to change the comic market....hmmmm still no slabbed

postage stamps????? hey,,,,,,just had an idea,,,,,,,

Phil

[joe_collector]

>>On the other hand, the proliferation of slabbing services just about killed the sports card business 10 years ago, and the same thing could happen here.

 

! What killed the graded sportscard biz was paying huge multiples for graded cards, based on a few percentage points on the scale. That kind of "stupid money" never sticks around, and the bust had absolutely nothing to do with multiple grading firms.

[joe_collector]

>>hmmmm still no slabbed postage stamps????? hey,,,,,,just had an idea,,,,,,,

 

 

Actually, I was thinking the same thing awhile back.. hmmmmm

[Illiterati-migration]

! What killed the graded sportscard biz was paying huge multiples for graded cards, based on a few percentage points on the scale. That kind of "stupid money" never sticks around, and the bust had absolutely nothing to do with multiple grading firms.

 

I thought what killed graded sportscards was that there was a huge scandal regarding the actual grading that was going on? Something about fraudulent grades and bogus slabs and whatnot? Isn't that why the "stupid money" left? Because nobody could trust anybody else?

[joe_collector]

Nah, there have been cases like that in every graded business, similar to the Heritage-CGC debates we've seen on here. Accusations of grade fixing, dealer bias, premeditated resto-grading and consistent resubs-for-profit from big clients and dealers.

 

CGC is no different in this area, and if that crashed the card biz, then comics would have gone down by now. Some are true, some are false, but no market is without its detractors.

 

Sooner or later, reality permeates any graded commodity, and people just get tired of paying a huge premium for 0.1 differences on the grade scale, which is humanly impossible to adhere to. Once that happens, people who bought these over-priced itesm take a bath, then take a powder, and there is less money in the market, and prices lower significantly again.

 

Repeat as needed.

[Illiterati-migration]

Repeat as needed.

 

I need that repeated a few more times before I'll dump in the sick money the books I want are demanding.

 

Whoa. The syntax in that sentence... the mind wobbles.