What do you consider to be Science Fiction? 6 6

[Bookery]

On 12/2/2023 at 6:15 PM, VintageComics said:

You can definitely argue that Superman is Sci Fi. 

He's an alien, pure and simple and alien life is still within the realm of [human] possibility. 

In strictly technical terminology... kinda-sorta.  But virtually all science-fiction literature uses the medium as an observation about ourselves, or a commentary or analysis about where we have been or where we are going.  Superman is an alien who comes to earth to beat up our criminals for us.  Okay.  But when alien Klaatu comes to earth it's done as a commentary on where we were heading as a nuclear-armed planet (not particularly original or sophisticated, even at the time, but sf used as commentary nonetheless).  For me, sf has to be more than just packaging.  The Blob is considered by many to be sf (not me) because it arrived from outer space.  But if it crawled out of a swamp like "The Creature", then suddenly it wouldn't be considered sf, even if virtually every shot and line of dialogue in the film remained exactly the same.  Eventually, especially in more modern stories, I'm sure there are more and more sf concepts brought into the Superman universe... but in the beginning he was just a better-looking Popeye from another world.

[buttock]

On 11/27/2023 at 3:00 PM, VintageComics said:

Think about it.

Slight tangent:

When my daughters first broke up with their 1st boyfriends and were heartbroken, I shared a lesson with them that I learned from a friend. That friend said to me that "love is not free".

Meaning, that if you plan to begin something, there are necessarily going to be consequences if you need to end it, so "don't start what you can't finish."

Think it through before embarking on it. 

Breakups are hard, but nobody thinks about that when going into the start of a romance. 

------------------------------------------------------

To me the greatest appeal from the Frankenstein story is the tragedy of how lonely the creature's life is. That's what drew me into the story.

From Study.Com

"Victor Frankenstein represents Romanticism because he is a warning against scientific pursuit without thought. Romanticism was a reaction to the Industrial Revolution, and Victor created something without considering the consequences of his actions."

Dr. Frankenstein performed an experiment and breathed life into the creature without considering the consequences of his actions.

The creature was never happy.

That's why subsequent sequels were based on trying to find a partner for him, weren't they?

It's so weird to see this new Roy. 

[zzutak]

On 12/4/2023 at 9:36 AM, Bookery said:

but in the beginning he [Superman] was just a better-looking Popeye from another world.

 

[shadroch]

There is a book from the 1880s called "Politics and Life in Mars" that is early sci-fi.

[VintageComics]

On 12/4/2023 at 12:36 PM, Bookery said:

In strictly technical terminology... kinda-sorta.  But virtually all science-fiction literature uses the medium as an observation about ourselves, or a commentary or analysis about where we have been or where we are going.  Superman is an alien who comes to earth to beat up our criminals for us.  Okay.  But when alien Klaatu comes to earth it's done as a commentary on where we were heading as a nuclear-armed planet (not particularly original or sophisticated, even at the time, but sf used as commentary nonetheless).  For me, sf has to be more than just packaging.  The Blob is considered by many to be sf (not me) because it arrived from outer space.  But if it crawled out of a swamp like "The Creature", then suddenly it wouldn't be considered sf, even if virtually every shot and line of dialogue in the film remained exactly the same.  Eventually, especially in more modern stories, I'm sure there are more and more sf concepts brought into the Superman universe... but in the beginning he was just a better-looking Popeye from another world.

So you're saying that some sort of social commentary as a guiding principle is a necessary factor in traditionally classifying a story Sci Fi? I can see how that holds true. 

I'm sure you're aware of Superman's Jewish roots, including the symbolism throughout his origin and the overarching philosophy of "good vs evil" in his stories that stem from Jewish culture. Not a heavy dose of 'social commentary', and that may have had to do with the time period as well, but certainly a definite sense of direction to the story telling. 

[VintageComics]

On 12/4/2023 at 2:53 PM, buttock said:

It's so weird to see this new Roy. 

You were just too busy admiring me to notice. 

But seriously, I'm the same person I've always been. I've always loved depth in discussion. I just take a little less BS now. 

Thank you, good Dr. 

[buttock]

On 12/4/2023 at 1:44 PM, VintageComics said:

You were just too busy admiring me to notice. 

But seriously, I'm the same person I've always been. I've always loved depth in discussion. I just take a little less BS now. 

Thank you, good Dr. 

Don't sell yourself short.  You've grown.  

[VintageComics]

On 12/4/2023 at 3:59 PM, buttock said:

Don't sell yourself short.  You've grown.  

That what she says. Every time. 

[buttock]

On 12/4/2023 at 2:11 PM, VintageComics said:

That what she says. Every time. 

"Don't worry, it happens to everyone"

[DiceX]

I think it's pronounced Fronk-in-steen.

And yes, it's science fiction.

[VintageComics]

On 12/4/2023 at 7:50 PM, DiceX said:

I think it's pronounced Fronk-in-steen.

And yes, it's science fiction.

Yep.

And nope. 

Good to see you around these parts, dork. 

[DiceX]

I bought a few books on a marketplace thread and thought I'd see if I could get into some trouble while I'm here. 

[VintageComics]

On 12/4/2023 at 9:40 PM, DiceX said:

I bought a few books on a marketplace thread and thought I'd see if I could get into some trouble while I'm here. 

You're sorely missed around these parts.  

[Bookery]

On 12/4/2023 at 3:42 PM, VintageComics said:

So you're saying that some sort of social commentary as a guiding principle is a necessary factor in traditionally classifying a story Sci Fi? I can see how that holds true. 

I'd hate to pigeonhole it that exclusively.  But I am hard-pressed to think of much literary sf that doesn't involve social commentary.  In theory an sf story could be about how science will make our lives so much better in the future, which in reality, it mostly has in real life.  And yet despite this, the majority of sf tales are dark warnings about future impending disaster.  Kind of ironic.  In fact, it now occurs to me that Shelley's tale is even more significantly sf than I realized.  200 years later sf still steadfastly maintains the themes she laid out in that novel, which is a generalized fear, rather than embrace, of technology.  In fact... the movie Frankenstein surprisingly encompassed her, and by extension, sf's most prevalent theme into two simple words... "Fire bad!"

[VintageComics]

On 12/5/2023 at 9:30 AM, Bookery said:

I'd hate to pigeonhole it that exclusively.  But I am hard-pressed to think of much literary sf that doesn't involve social commentary.  In theory an sf story could be about how science will make our lives so much better in the future, which in reality, it mostly has in real life.  And yet despite this, the majority of sf tales are dark warnings about future impending disaster.  Kind of ironic.  In fact, it now occurs to me that Shelley's tale is even more significantly sf than I realized.  200 years later sf still steadfastly maintains the themes she laid out in that novel, which is a generalized fear, rather than embrace, of technology.  In fact... the movie Frankenstein surprisingly encompassed her, and by extension, sf's most prevalent theme into two simple words... "Fire bad!"

So Frankenstein was initially a social commentary against the industrial revolution and has been grandfathered into Sci Fi once "science fiction" became a genre, much like Superheroes have become an entire genre to themselves without realizing they were creating a genre at the time, or that Superman was going to be the king of the genre. 

[ttfitz]

On 11/29/2023 at 4:14 PM, The humble Watcher lurking said:

I have been reading this for the first time and wow it`s been way better than expected.

 

What ever would have prompted you to expect less than what this gives you???

[Robot Man]

[VintageComics]

On 12/15/2023 at 11:49 AM, Robot Man said:

Junk. 

 

Edited December 15, 2023 by VintageComics

[Robot Man]