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ASM #252 CGC 9.8 Record Sale - something fishy going on? - Holder Tampering Incident confirmed by CGC
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Started by spidermanbeyond,

9,030 posts in this topic

Steven Valdez

Steven Valdez

Posted
Posted
On 12/23/2023 at 1:20 PM, Prince Namor said:

You wouldn't have to. The machine wouldn't be doing that. An employee does the handling.

I get why certain sellers would be against it. They have a buddy or two working for CGC who can game the system for them. The idea of blocking that is frightening to them. They could no longer claim to be as expert of a grader, because now they wouldn't know ahead of time what the grade was going to be.

Yep, there's definitely at least one character on here who seems almost violently opposed to any form of software-assisted grading.

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JC25427N

JC25427N

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Posted (edited)
On 12/22/2023 at 11:29 PM, Steven Valdez said:

Yep, there's definitely at least one character on here who seems almost violently opposed to any form of software-assisted grading.

I'm not sure if you're lumping me in there, so just to be clear, I'm not against it by any means, I work in software development, I just don't think there's an appreciation for how complex it would be to create. I also think some over-estimating might be going on, processing large image datasets can take a really long time, might not be as fast and efficient as people think. 

Edited by JC25427N
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Steven Valdez

Steven Valdez

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Posted (edited)
On 12/23/2023 at 2:12 PM, Sigur Ros said:

Understood.

But I just think the "Inside man" gives a defined time period.  A "limit" to the problem.  An "out".

Where as "we just keep screwing up, we've always been this way" would actually make them look more incompetent.

I dunno.

But if they can blithely hire one dishonest grader without picking up on it, what was stopping them from hiring dozens of them over the past 20-odd years?

Edited by Steven Valdez
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Buzzetta

Buzzetta

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Posted
On 12/22/2023 at 9:12 PM, Prince Namor said:

How so? It's a SCANNING program. It's not an Android Super Robot from the Future who cuts open the mylar and counts the pages. You have an employee SCAN it. The most BIASED, easy-to-manipulate part of the process, you take OUT of the hands of a human being who could be BOUGHT, and instead have a computer do it.

People really have no idea. 

At the most basic, the Lego Mindstorms kit was introduced to retail around a decade ago with the photoreceptor components which can distinguish color.  One of the first thing the lego community did was create robotic builds mounted with that first camera that could detect the color of and solve, a Rubik's cube.   Videos started appearing using the tech able to distinguish color at mass market retail prices.   Over the last decade Lego has offered upgraded components and software as photo tech has become cheaper to mass market and produce just like the cameras on iPhones which can detect and match color nuances across a palette with the current software.

I am pretty sure that an upgraded business model can detect pages. 

 

 

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Buzzetta

Buzzetta

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On 12/22/2023 at 10:46 PM, jcjames said:

How would they even know if there was any damage if they never even looked (more than just glancingly) at the book?

Which apparently, they just don't.

???

It used to be that an automatic reholder would take place if it were determined that the book could not have been removed or if the book had not become damaged. If there was a crack in the plastic then it could amount to a reholder. 

If the slab was in pieces they insisted on a regrade.  At least that is what I was told once. 

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Steven Valdez

Steven Valdez

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On 12/23/2023 at 2:30 PM, jcjames said:

Yep. All four sides and any broken seal requires a full regrade. 

For years thin metallic or mylar tape has been used to identify tampered-with electronics or other warrantied products. 

There's certainly been good reason for CGC to have already moved into that type of integrity protection for many, many years now. 

Yep, it's a very simple and effective solution. I have no idea why they haven't been doing it all along, it's not as if it's brand new technology.

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Steven Valdez

Steven Valdez

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On 12/23/2023 at 2:21 PM, BCR said:

I’m actually SHOCKED CBCS hasn’t come forward to tell us all why this could never have happened under their watch. 

Every single CGC that has ever been re-holdered is now potentially a counterfeit on some level. Lesser grade, a literal counterfeit…

We can never buy another CGC book as collectors if that book has been re-holdered. Especially if that book is in the thousands of dollars. 

We wouldn't even know if it was reholdered at all, if scammers are up to their hijinx at home.

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Steven Valdez

Steven Valdez

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On 12/23/2023 at 3:15 PM, Superman2006 said:

That is one option, but I could think of a way that scammers could try to get around even that, but I won't share publicly since I don't want to give scammers any ideas in the off-chance CGC ever goes that route.

I'm intrigued as to how they could pull that off (so to speak) but respect your discretion.

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Axelrod

Axelrod

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Posted

Bottom line: this scam wouldn't work if they actually regraded reholder requests.  

That would seem to be an easy fix.

Except for (1) that takes more time and costs them money, and (2) suddenly the number of reholder requests goes way down.  

 

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Steven Valdez

Steven Valdez

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On 12/23/2023 at 3:35 PM, JC25427N said:

I'm not sure if you're lumping me in there, so just to be clear, I'm not against it by any means, I work in software development, I just don't think there's an appreciation for how complex it would be to create. I also think some over-estimating might be going on, processing large image datasets can take a really long time, might not be as fast and efficient as people think. 

No, was not lumping you in at all. Appreciate your comments.

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Steven Valdez

Steven Valdez

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Posted
On 12/23/2023 at 4:00 PM, Axelrod said:

Bottom line: this scam wouldn't work if they actually regraded reholder requests.  

That would seem to be an easy fix.

Except for (1) that takes more time and costs them money, and (2) suddenly the number of reholder requests goes way down.  

 

Good point. They really should make it a new policy as a matter of urgency. It wouldn't necessarily be a re-grading procedure, but more of an inspection and verification process.

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