ASM #252 CGC 9.8 Record Sale - something fishy going on? - Holder Tampering Incident confirmed by CGC 50 50

[Comics]

On 12/23/2023 at 10:03 AM, mephistopheles said:

Just crack the case, and slide in a 1.0 copy and return it back to briva3. Then submit the book to CGC and hope it wasn't a blue/purple. Karma.

Or just do like the scammers do - send an empty box back. What's he going to do - sue?

[VintageComics]

On 12/23/2023 at 1:00 PM, ThothAmon said:

I wasn’t defending his statement just analyzing your choice of words. But since you asked, when you first showed up in this thread, days after it started, and commented obviously without reading the thread or watching the videos were you ignorant, lying or insane?  Your choices not mine. 

I was obviously ignorant and even admitted it, responding as I was getting caught up on the thread in real time. 

This is wholly different. The guy professes to have "over 30 years of grading experience" and yet is spitballing from a grainy cell phone pic. That doesn't change over time. 

Two totally different things. 

The choice of words is accurate.

Being ignorant is not a bad thing. Being defensive when found to be ignorant definitely is a bad thing. 

Now, as a lawyer answer me this: are there any other defenses to being ignorant other than the ones I've stated?

[skybolt]

On 12/23/2023 at 11:18 AM, jcjames said:

Excellent work 

These are just two examples of the extremely troubling evidence/proof that this scam has indeed been going on for well over a decade by this same scammer with extremely key books! 

And this is only what has been found in just a couple days of digging. 

Like I said, this thread has exposed a couple of snowflakes resting on the tip of a very old iceberg that is massive and deep. 

 

I'm not sure there's anything there. The 7.0 could just be a straight resub. The Avengers book has the same cut, but why would anyone add a date stamp? Plus, the bottom left corner does not look the same. I could be wrong though.

Edited December 23, 2023 by skybolt

[ThothAmon]

On 12/23/2023 at 1:07 PM, VintageComics said:

I was obviously ignorant and even admitted it, responding as I was getting caught up on the thread in real time. 

This is wholly different. The guy professes to have "over 30 years of grading experience" and yet is spitballing from a grainy cell phone pic. That doesn't change over time. 

Two totally different things. 

The choice of words is accurate.

Being ignorant is not a bad thing. Being defensive when found to be ignorant definitely is a bad thing. 

Now, as a lawyer answer me this: are there any other defenses to being ignorant other than the ones I've stated?

A lawyers time is his stock and trade. $350 us per hour $15k retainer. Should last a couple weeks. 

[paqart]

On 12/23/2023 at 12:53 PM, Buzzetta said:

 

 

I was going to say something related.  Paqart has something there, but you have to be careful with something like that especially in a densely populated area as Queens, NY or anywhere in the five boroughs and Long Island.  For example, there is someone with the my exact full name that lives near me.  We are not related and our age difference is around ten years. 

Riva is a common last name

Rivas is a more common last name

the 3 could be a "leet speak" version of the S for some reason. 

Considering any of that could easily lead you to the wrong person. 

Very true. There are quite a few people around the US with my name as well. One actually lived in the same city I did, registered to attend the same school as me (which bumped my registration out because they thought we were the same person). Another has a doctorate, though from a different school, and one is a multimillionaire in Canada. One, that a friend loves to send me clippings about, is a career petty criminal. Whenever he steals a car or gets locked up in Oregon, I find out about it.

Anyway, it could be totally made up also. We've seen about four user names so far, and none are similar to each other. In my case, when I make user names, I almost always include the characters "PAQ", but not everyone does that.

[Bo1983]

On 12/23/2023 at 1:05 PM, Comics said:

Here are some more - again if the pic is small it's all i have. If there are duplicates they are from duplicate auctions and may help. One interesting thing I found - in 2016 he sold a CBCS Hulk 181 with "CGC it " in the title. I feel even an insufficiently_thoughtful_person wouldn't do that if they had swapped out a MVS missing book for a good one...

Good work!

[Stefan_W]

On 12/23/2023 at 1:10 PM, ThothAmon said:

A lawyers time is his stock and trade. $350 us per hour $15k retainer. Should last a couple weeks. 

We can chip in on the retainer then take the envelop used to get it to you and swap out the promised 15k for $150. 

And just like that we are back on topic. 

[VintageComics]

On 12/23/2023 at 1:02 PM, Buzzetta said:

Are you targeting my Roy?  That would be troubling. 

You, Prince Namor, jsilverjanet, Cat and a few others have been targeting me incessantly for months on here. 

You've even admitted that to me via text and ELSEWHERE that you will be purposefully targeting me. jsilverjanet did too.

You started targeting me when I reported you for a bad post and told you that I didn't approve of what you said. 

Several others have been taking mild swipes in this thread at me as well (thothamon, GetMarwood etc). I genuinely don't care. It doesn't even register on my radar. It's just extra posts to work through to be able to get back on track and dealing with real discussions on here that matter. 

If you people really cared about the community you'd stop with all the nonsense, but it's this sort of behavior that gets threads locked. 

I simply replied to your post on tape because it was WRONG. Nothing more. 

I'm going to take a break from this thread to lower the heat a little, not because I want to, but just so this thread doesn't get locked.

 

 

Edited December 23, 2023 by VintageComics

[mephistopheles]

On 12/23/2023 at 1:00 PM, DWL said:

I am joking obviously, but it would be a nice slice of karma if the buyer sent briva3 back a different book  

Catching up on thread and I see you beat me to the punchline. Great minds think alike.

[thehumantorch]

On 12/23/2023 at 9:29 AM, MAR1979 said:

Hi Microchip,

There will be NO Response from CGC. Apologies folks for repeating myself but CGC will simply wait until this fizzles out and it will. If they do say something/anything then it will cost them money.  They do not have a care at all with perception as long as you folks keep submitting and them Benji's keep rollin' in. 

It's a strict pump & dump for CGC's current parent anyhow, as soon as inbound cash sinks below their predetermined threshold they will sell CGC off.

 

 

 

I disagree.  CGC has posted official responses to issues like this in the past and I expect the same this time.

[VintageComics]

For the public record, I've notified Mike about my own post and asked him to not lock the thread in case he was considering it. 

Apologies for the distractions from my end, but it takes more than one person to derail a thread in this way and I'm going to do my part to keep it on track. 

Edited December 23, 2023 by VintageComics

[Terry JSA]

I’m convinced that when a thread involves most, if not all, forum members. It ends up being drama filled and derails from there.

[Eric Rom]

The only thing that CGC and transparency have in common is that they rhyme.

[sledgehammer]

On 12/23/2023 at 12:43 PM, Terry JSA said:

I’m convinced that when a thread involves most, if not all, forum members. It ends up being drama filled and derails from there.

I don't think that there will be pages of this thread that disappear.

People get the importance of this.

[BrashL]

On 12/23/2023 at 12:43 PM, Terry JSA said:

I’m convinced that when a thread involves most, if not all, forum members. It ends up being drama filled and derails from there.

It’s because there’s nothing to do at this point except wait to see how CGC is going to make this right. I don’t see how anyone can be comfortable buying a blue label Hulk 181 or other high value book until we get some clarity though.  

[jcjames]

On 12/23/2023 at 11:09 AM, skybolt said:

I'm not sure there's anything there. The 7.0 could just be a straight resub. The Avengers book has the same cut, but why would anyone add a date stamp? Plus, the bottom left corner does not look the same. I could be wrong though.

The JIM is clearly the same book, different cert#s. 

 

 

[Stefan_W]

On 12/23/2023 at 1:50 PM, BrashL said:

It’s because there’s nothing to do at this point except wait to see how CGC is going to make this right. I don’t see how anyone can be comfortable buying a blue label Hulk 181 or other high value book until we get some clarity though.  

Yup, this will be the immediate impact of the scam being brought to light. I suspect there will be lower than normal returns at auctions early in the new year for book like Hulk 181 (9.0-ish), 9.8 copies of ASM 300, etc etc etc. 

A Hulk 181 hit CL marketplace yesterday and has no offers so far. That may not mean anything since it is early and the book was listed too high, but the fact there have not been any offers at all yet (even bad ones) caught my attention. 

Getting deals is sometimes proportional to willingness to take risks, so people who are willing to roll the dice may end up doing very well .... unless they do really badly in the end when everything shakes out. 

[MAR1979]

On 12/23/2023 at 1:18 PM, thehumantorch said:

I disagree.  CGC has posted official responses to issues like this in the past and I expect the same this time.

That was prior to Blackstone's ownership.  Look at Blackstone's past, NOT CGC's.

Edited December 23, 2023 by MAR1979

[Changer]

On 12/23/2023 at 10:59 AM, Stefan_W said:

Yup, this will be the immediate impact of the scam being brought to light. I suspect there will be lower than normal returns at auctions early in the new year for book like Hulk 181 (9.0-ish), 9.8 copies of ASM 300, etc etc etc. 

A Hulk 181 hit CL marketplace yesterday and has no offers so far. That may not mean anything since it is early and the book was listed too high, but the fact there have not been any offers at all yet (even bad ones) caught my attention. 

Getting deals is sometimes proportional to willingness to take risks, so people who are willing to roll the dice may end up doing very well .... unless they do really badly in the end when everything shakes out. 

Interesting like art ,providence will be a price or sales factor for these books at least 

Edited December 23, 2023 by Changer

[drotto]

On 12/23/2023 at 1:57 PM, jcjames said:

The JIM is clearly the same book, different cert#s. 

 

 

Be careful calling some of these books that are clearly the same, as all part of this swapping business.  Some of those may be CPR, and CGC considers those legitimate.  Just most people forget the have CGC remove old unused certs from the census.

Edited December 23, 2023 by drotto