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ASM #252 CGC 9.8 Record Sale - something fishy going on? - Holder Tampering Incident confirmed by CGC
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Started by spidermanbeyond,

9,031 posts in this topic

Dr. Balls

Dr. Balls

Posted
Posted (edited)
On 12/27/2023 at 8:04 AM, agamoto said:

Great video... RIck from immaculate has demonstrated that some heat applied to the ball joints on the bottom of the case allow for the "tamper proof" pillars can be popped off w/o a problem. 

CGC, you need a new case design, right now. 

I think when plastic is concerned, applying heat to move things apart is going to be difficult to prevent. I'm not a Plastic Expert, but the only way I can see to prevent it is to apply Thermochromic pigment to the inside of the slab, which changes color when exposed to heat. Not sure if this pigment can be applied in clear form so it's visually unobtrusive to the overall appearance of the slab, and then changing color when the heat is put to it - but yeah - you're right: CGC needs to implement something immediately, or this is going to spiral out of control as new scammers scramble to utilize this now-very public way to jailbreak a slab.

Edited by Dr. Balls
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Steven Valdez

Steven Valdez

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Posted
On 12/28/2023 at 2:16 AM, agamoto said:

Cheap, but you have to factor in the cost of the acrylic cases and the aluminum molds used to seal 'em back up. I don't think it's even required now that I've seen what Dr. Rick just pulled off with a heat gun and a little bit of xylene.

Absolutely. How does sonic welding work anyway? Not sure what it does. I guess the answer is 'not much' in the case of CGC.

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mephistopheles

mephistopheles

Posted
Posted
On 12/27/2023 at 11:04 AM, agamoto said:

Great video... RIck from immaculate has demonstrated that some heat applied to the ball joints on the bottom of the case allow for the "tamper proof" pillars can be popped off w/o a problem. 

CGC, you need a new case design, right now. 

Rick is like the science god of comics. He would figure out a way to do it even if it involved building a time machine or a teleportation device. I am skeptical that our scammer is a criminal mastermind. More likely he just noticed a gap in CGC processes and took advantage of it. I am not ready to let CGC off the hook yet.

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MAR1979

MAR1979

Posted
Posted (edited)
On 12/27/2023 at 10:22 AM, Dr. Balls said:

I think when plastic is concerned, applying heat to move things apart is going to be difficult to prevent. I'm not a Plastic Expert, but the only way I can see to prevent it is to apply Thermochromic pigment to the inside of the slab, which changes color when exposed to heat. Not sure if this pigment can be clear so it's visually unobtrusive to the overall appearance of the slab - but yeah - you're right: CGC needs to implement something immediately, or this is going to spiral out of control as new scammers scramble to devise ways to jailbreak a slab.

Blackstone loathes spending money. They believe themselves entitled to collect huge profits with their sole expenditures being their initial investment outlay and bare minimum austerity to keep the "lights on".  If the profits start to drop from a river to a stream or brook, they will sell CGC - assuming their inaction has not totally tainted the name by then...?

Get ready for another day with nary a statement from Blackstone/CGC!

Edited by MAR1979
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Dr. Balls

Dr. Balls

Posted
Posted
On 12/27/2023 at 8:31 AM, MAR1979 said:

Blackstone loathes spending money. They believe themselves entitled to collect huge profits with their only expenditure being their initial investment outlay.  If the profits start to drop form a river to a stream or brook, they will sell CGC - assuming their inaction has not totally tainted the name by then...?

Get ready for another day with nary a statement from Blackstone/CGC!

Blackstone may have inherited this problem - CGC's basic slab design has been around for 30 years - I'm not convinced this is something new. A heat gun and a scammer's curiosity likely pre-dates what's going on in this thread. This may be a bigger problem than what it started out as.

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BrashL

BrashL

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On 12/27/2023 at 9:28 AM, mephistopheles said:

Rick is like the science god of comics. He would figure out a way to do it even if it involved building a time machine or a teleportation device. I am skeptical that our scammer is a criminal mastermind. More likely he just noticed a gap in CGC processes and took advantage of it. I am not ready to let CGC off the hook yet.

Heating plastic to loosen it up isn’t “criminal mastermind” level thinking, it’s like the most obvious way to open something up. We need to stop referring to “the scammer”, I have no doubt lots of people have figured this out.  

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MAR1979

MAR1979

Posted
Posted (edited)
On 12/27/2023 at 10:35 AM, Dr. Balls said:

Blackstone may have inherited this problem - CGC's basic slab design has been around for 30 years - I'm not convinced this is something new. A heat gun and a scammer's curiosity likely pre-dates what's going on in this thread. This may be a bigger problem than what it started out as.

agreed, but Blackstone certainly ain't likely to spend a dime to fix things. Exec's might take bonus hits and they ain't having none of that. The only way out is to skedaddle...

Edited by MAR1979
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Dr. Balls

Dr. Balls

Posted
Posted (edited)
On 12/27/2023 at 8:35 AM, BrashL said:

Heating plastic to loosen it up isn’t “criminal mastermind” level thinking, it’s like the most obvious way to open something up. We need to stop referring to “the scammer”, I have no doubt lots of people have figured this out.  

Very true - an honest person is the one who exposes the flaw, the scammer never says a word about it. (speaking in generalizations, not any single person specifically)

Edited by Dr. Balls
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Buzzetta

Buzzetta

Posted
Posted
On 12/27/2023 at 10:04 AM, agamoto said:

Great video... RIck from immaculate has demonstrated that some heat applied to the ball joints on the bottom of the case allow for the "tamper proof" pillars can be popped off w/o a problem. 

CGC, you need a new case design, right now. 

 

On 12/27/2023 at 10:08 AM, Steven Valdez said:

Well, that's a crucial bit of news.

This is speculation as I have never tried it. 

I have kind of held that suspicion for awhile, actually a couple of years before this took place due to how certain GI Joe figures are taken apart.  With some GI Joe and Star Wars figures both modern and vintage they are held together in such a way that the only way to take them apart and reassemble them was through heat.  Customizers have been known to loosen the plastics through the old "boil and pop" method.   I was looking at this customization page once when I got a comic order and realized that you could probably figure out a way to boil and pop the posts without damaging the CGC shell. 

You figure to boil and pop the posts is the equivalent to popping out the limbs on a figure.  Then you slowly and carefully separate the torso (the welded part of the figure) with an exacto.  This would be the equivalent to the body of the slab.  Some pop easily and some do not.    I would imagine that if you have any skill in that area that a slab would be easier than a smaller action figure.  The smaller the item the more difficult it might be to separate.  So if an action figure can be customized I do not see why those guys would not be able to dismantle a CGC shell in a manner that it can easily be put back together again. 

@comicwiz - You would know far more than I do when it comes to this.

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mephistopheles

mephistopheles

Posted
Posted
On 12/27/2023 at 11:35 AM, BrashL said:

Heating plastic to loosen it up isn’t “criminal mastermind” level thinking, it’s like the most obvious way to open something up. We need to stop referring to “the scammer”, I have no doubt lots of people have figured this out.  

WTF is Xylene? Who would think to use that?

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MAR1979

MAR1979

Posted
Posted
On 12/27/2023 at 10:40 AM, mephistopheles said:

WTF is Xylene?

Xylene (C8H10) is a colorless, flammable liquid with a sweet odor. Exposure to xylene can irritate the eyes, nose, skin, and throat. Xylene can also cause headaches, dizziness, confusion, loss of muscle coordination, and in high doses, death

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Steven Valdez

Steven Valdez

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On 12/28/2023 at 2:38 AM, Buzzetta said:

 

This is speculation as I have never tried it. 

I have kind of held that suspicion for awhile, actually a couple of years before this took place due to how certain GI Joe figures are taken apart.  With some GI Joe and Star Wars figures both modern and vintage they are held together in such a way that the only way to take them apart and reassemble them was through heat.  Customizers have been known to loosen the plastics through the old "boil and pop" method.   I was looking at this customization page once when I got a comic order and realized that you could probably figure out a way to boil and pop the posts without damaging the CGC shell. 

You figure to boil and pop the posts is the equivalent to popping out the limbs on a figure.  Then you slowly and carefully separate the torso (the welded part of the figure) with an exacto.  This would be the equivalent to the body of the slab.  Some pop easily and some do not.    I would imagine that if you have any skill in that area that a slab would be easier than a smaller action figure.  The smaller the item the more difficult it might be to separate.  So if an action figure can be customized I do not see why those guys would not be able to dismantle a CGC shell in a manner that it can easily be put back together again. 

@comicwiz - You would know far more than I do when it comes to this.

He literally shows us how to do it on his video (linked further up the page).

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