ASM #252 CGC 9.8 Record Sale - something fishy going on? - Holder Tampering Incident confirmed by CGC 50 50

[THE_BEYONDER]

How can I report a scammer to the FBI?

General Fraud and Other Criminal Matters

Contact the FBI at (202) 324-3000, or online at www.fbi.gov or tips.fbi.gov. 

[Mdesimone]

On 12/28/2023 at 4:58 PM, agamoto said:

My expectations are quite simple. This guy defrauded people out of their actual cash. He didn't just harm CGC and their reputation by swapping out books. I don't care what your personal anecdote is about. Maybe they thought the person who came forth with the information wasn't reliable, or the evidence itself was anecdotal and not actionable. None of that matters. The only absolute truth here is that the FBI can't investigate any crime if they're not contacted about it. ESPECIALLY when there is very concerning evidence with the high rate of 9.8 grades granted to the perp's submissions and some of the mind-bending speeds with which some of his books were processed and returned to him. He has books that were sold on eBay the same day they are marked as being graded in the CGC census. Do you know that? 

How do we know this guy didn’t use his friends and family to submit for reholders, he has 3 states listed on his eBay auctions, I wouldn’t keep submitting amazing Spider-Man 300 9.8 for reholders on a weekly basis because I would be worried about causing attention

[RonS2112]

On 12/28/2023 at 4:58 PM, agamoto said:

My expectations are quite simple. This guy defrauded people out of their actual cash. He didn't just harm CGC and their reputation by swapping out books. I don't care what your personal anecdote is about. Maybe they thought the person who came forth with the information wasn't reliable, or the evidence itself was anecdotal and not actionable. None of that matters. The only absolute truth here is that the FBI can't investigate any crime if they're not contacted about it. ESPECIALLY when there is very concerning evidence with the high rate of 9.8 grades granted to the perp's submissions and some of the mind-bending speeds with which some of his books were processed and returned to him. He has books that were sold on eBay the same day they are marked as being graded in the CGC census. Do you know that? 

 

Edited December 28, 2023 by RonS2112

[agamoto]

On 12/28/2023 at 1:52 PM, RonS2112 said:

I perfectly get it.  Read your own words -- if it's not within CGCs domain, it CERTAINLY isn't within yours.  No one owes you a thing.

And here's a bit of news.  If it is "only" six figures, then there's a good chance that the FBI won't waste the time to prosecute this; it simply isn't worth the time it would take.

No, I don't actually think you do get it. I'm not asking anything for myself, I haven't been scammed. I'm asking for those who have been scammed by this fellow, and possibly others we don't even know about because of a flaw in a process at CGC. Others we sure as s%$t may never learn about if there is no formal criminal investigation. 

Your reasoning makes little sense. It's wire fraud, it's a federal crime. Every single count is 250K in fines or 20 years max in jail. Plenty of folks are victims to this guy. It's not a case of caveat emptor here, they bought based on the books being certified by the Certified Guaranty Company, who is also a victim of fraud on all this. 

It's the job of the FBI to investigate wire fraud, not private eyes, not lawyers.  

[ADAMANTIUM]

On 12/28/2023 at 4:10 PM, agamoto said:

No, I don't actually think you do get it. I'm not asking anything for myself, I haven't been scammed. I'm asking for those who have been scammed by this fellow, and possibly others we don't even know about because of a flaw in a process at CGC. Others we sure as s%$t may never learn about if there is no formal criminal investigation. 

Your reasoning makes little sense. It's wire fraud, it's a federal crime. Every single count is 250K in fines or 20 years max in jail. Plenty of folks are victims to this guy. It's not a case of caveat emptor here, they bought based on the books being certified by the Certified Guaranty Company, who is also a victim of fraud on all this. 

It's the job of the FBI to investigate wire fraud, not private eyes, not lawyers.  

If it'll ease your mind?

With cgc about to fork out those thousands mentioned to reimburse, I'll repeat, "they will prosecute to the full extent of the law" as their restitution.

Be patient

[Mdesimone]

I hope to hear how cgc is going to compensate, I had a switcharoo with an amaze spider man 129 he swapped an 8.0 into a 9.0 holder. In its real form an 8.0 it’s worth more then what I paid for the fake 9.0 now

[Stefan_W]

On 12/28/2023 at 4:56 PM, ADAMANTIUM said:

I like how the investigators are looking into "cgc process too", that might turn out what legal right cgc has to pursue

This is common. If a company has something wrong with their processes that leads to a bad result they hire someone external to review those processes and make recommendations. That way the changes implemented will be solid and not rooted in the same decision trees and assumptions that led to issues to begin with. 

[agamoto]

On 12/28/2023 at 2:14 PM, ADAMANTIUM said:

If it'll ease your mind?

With cgc about to fork out those thousands mentioned to reimburse, I'll repeat, "they will prosecute to the full extent of the law" as their restitution.

Be patient

Thanks, I read that already. It's a meaningless public relations statement. CGC doesn't get to decide what charges get pressed when it's a federal wire fraud case, that's up to a USDA's office once the FBI has completed their investigation. 

[ADAMANTIUM]

On 12/28/2023 at 4:22 PM, agamoto said:

Thanks, I read that already. It's a meaningless public relations statement. CGC doesn't get to decide what charges get pressed when it's a federal wire fraud case, that's up to a USDA's office once the FBI has completed their investigation. 

What I'm confused by then, is why do you want cgc specifically to call? It's been explained to you what they will do, if needed for now, but no one has stated they haven't called. No one has stated they won't

What has been made public is what cgc will do for themselves and victims, which if you were a victim might be wanted 1st more than seeing a guy whose outed behind bars in the next 30 seconds.

Why is it so important that cgc specifically call? Do you think theyre victims? If so, do you think they should take proper precautions? Do you think if it takes them this long to get it together for you that a bigger organization like the federal bureau of investigation is going to move much faster? 

Take some solace and be patient. No one has argued not to call the FBI. No one is arguing your wrong, so please stop telling us why "cgc should call the FBI."

Patience. What is out of your control is left to the powers that be. There is something to be thankful for and you're not wrong, I was onky trying to remind you there are good things happening and in the order it was received please hold and an agent will be with you shortly 🙏 

[Stefan_W]

On 12/28/2023 at 5:22 PM, agamoto said:

Thanks, I read that already. It's a meaningless public relations statement. CGC doesn't get to decide what charges get pressed when it's a federal wire fraud case, that's up to a USDA's office once the FBI has completed their investigation. 

Similarly, you dont get to decide what parts of an ongoing criminal investigation can be revealed to you in a public statement. 

 

[bc]

If the playbook for this is anything like a cybersecurity incident, you contact the FBI immediately and the first thing they tell you to do is not say anything until an investigation is completed.

There is a process, let it play out. Blackstone has been through this kind of thing before.

-bc

[pdags]

On 12/28/2023 at 5:22 PM, agamoto said:

CGC doesn't get to decide what charges get pressed when it's a federal wire fraud case

I've been hesitant to say it, but who is the victim of what in all of this?  As another person said, CGC is going to cover their backsides first.  It's entirely possible a class action law suit comes from this.  People paid premiums for CGC graded comics because they believed they were incredibly difficult if not impossible to tamper with.  Instead, we learned, it's rather trivial.  Did CGC know this and not say anything or mislead their customers?  We can't determine this without a full investigation.  

I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt, but there is possibly a conflict of interest with CGC contacting the FBI.  This is why I purposefully and directly asked CGC Mike if a law enforcement agency was involved.  As expected, they refused to answer the question.

What do we do now?  Sit back and hope CGC does the right thing at, possibly, great damage to themselves?  I hope they do.  

In many ways this is like the Johnson and Johnson poison scandal in the 80s.  How far is CGC going to go to ensure their integrity is maintained?

 

Edited December 28, 2023 by pdags

[OJ Pimpson]

On 12/28/2023 at 10:21 AM, VintageComics said:

Diagnostic tech thinking hat on now: 

Is there a reason he DOESN'T how a clear shot of the side he sealed "properly" because I can see that it doesn't look as original as he makes people believe it does, just from the quick flashes we get of that spine edge. There's a little 'sleight of hand' going on there. 

This is utter nonsense. You want badly to see this person as a bad actor or charlatan, when in fact this video is a great service to the community. The video clearly demonstrates that with a modest amount of patience and effort these slabs can be compromised. Now, instead of only the scammers being aware of this, we all are, and it will further pressure CGC to make the security upgrades needed to protect against tampering. His video has 8k views which likely amounts to a YouTube ad rev check for less than the change you have rattling around in your pockets and the stuff he sells on his website is so niche I doubt he breaks even on any of it. He’s just a guy that loves science and comics and there is no reason to doubt his intentions. You on the other hand are a clear shill

Edited December 28, 2023 by OJ Pimpson

[jsilverjanet]

On 12/28/2023 at 4:34 PM, OJ Pimpson said:

This is utter nonsense. You want badly to see this person as a bad actor or charlatan, when in fact this video is a great service to the community. The video clearly demonstrates that with a modest amount of patience and effort these slabs can be compromised. Now, instead of only the scammers being aware of this, we all are, and it will further pressure CGC to make the security upgrades needed to protect against tampering. His video has 8k views which likely amounts to a YouTube ad rev check for less than the change you have rattling around in your pockets and the stuff he sells on his website is so niche I doubt he breaks even on any of it. He’s just a guy that loves science and comics and there is no reason to doubt his intentions. You on the other can are a clear shill

Vintage is many things but not a shill

he also won't be able reply anytime soon

Edited December 28, 2023 by jsilverjanet

[THE_BEYONDER]

On 12/28/2023 at 5:37 PM, jsilverjanet said:

he also won't be able anytime soon

?

[jsilverjanet]

On 12/28/2023 at 4:38 PM, THE_BEYONDER said:

?

forgot the word reply

call the FBI on me

Edited December 28, 2023 by jsilverjanet

[Stefan_W]

The transition in this thread from "OMG, CGC is not making a statement because they don't care about us, aren't doing anything behind the scenes, and want to protect their own butts" to "OMG, CGC is not pursuing legal channels because they don't care about us, aren't doing anything behind the scenes, and want to protect their own butts" was breathtakingly seamless. 

[THE_BEYONDER]

On 12/28/2023 at 5:39 PM, jsilverjanet said:

forgot the word reply

call the FBI me

Did Roy get another vacation?

[jsilverjanet]

On 12/28/2023 at 4:40 PM, THE_BEYONDER said:

Did Roy get another vacation?

I don't want to get in trouble but check out the other section of the boards where announcements are made about moderation

[bc]

On 12/28/2023 at 5:40 PM, Stefan_W said:

The transition in this thread from "OMG, CGC is not making a statement because they don't care about us, aren't doing anything behind the scenes, and want to protect their own butts" to "OMG, CGC is not pursuing legal channels because they don't care about us, aren't doing anything behind the scenes, and want to protect their own butts" was breathtakingly seamless. 

And in less than 2 weeks at that 

-bc