ASM #252 CGC 9.8 Record Sale - something fishy going on? - Holder Tampering Incident confirmed by CGC 50 50

[THE_BEYONDER]

On 1/2/2024 at 12:29 AM, wombat said:

Well we certainly hit a record for someone quoting their own posts. 

It’s a unique posting style for sure 

[mjoeyoung]

On 1/1/2024 at 9:13 PM, ADAMANTIUM said:

Cgc first assess the book, then if there happens to be a label case with it see if the book matches the label, not vice versa

I think the problem may be that both of the books involved in some of the swaps were high grade (9.4 swapped to 9.8).  If there are no grader notes, how much time do you allot to discerning if the 9.8 is really a swapped 9.4?  Haven't we all seen 9.8s that we consider over graded?  How long before the individual doing the reholders gets reprimanded for spending too much time on each book, or sending too many books back for regrading?  How long before customers get annoyed because they simply want a new label, but their 9.8s are coming back 9.6s?

[Comics]

Hey - has anyone thanked the people who were paying such 'intriguing' prices for these books? Without them - nobody would have looked twice and we would still be in the dark!!!

Kudos!

:-)

 

[MyNameIsLegion]

On 12/31/2023 at 10:33 AM, godzilla43 said:

CGC needs first to create a form in their website where you could check if a slab has pictures and grader notes. Second give some timeline when the new slab will arrive. Third in that new slab the inner sleeve must have a ID-number as well and some CGC Hologram or something like that so you cannot just go to Target/Home Depot to fake those. Of course the inner sleeve ID-number must be seen inside the slab.
Finally if they can make a slab which is harder to crack then do that but anyways the inner sleeve is the most important thing not the slab.

 

This is where my head is at as well- the inner sleeve is the key to a two part verification system to ensure that inner and outer components of the slab are original. This is probably a more low cost way to implement a layer of security that hardens the target and dissuades fraud.  

Something like this: applied to the inner sleeve in addition to the holder that doesn't detract from the view of the comic and is only visible with the correct equipment. 

Invisible Barcodes For Retailers And Manufacturers

Barcodes and barcode scanning has come a long way over the last few decades and has mainly focused on making them easier to read. To that end, there has been development and an identified need within a range of industries to create “invisible” barcodes. These invisible barcodes are created by using specialized ink that emits a fluorescent “glow” when exposed to certain kinds of lights such as ultraviolet (UV) or infrared (IR) light. This essentially makes the barcode hidden to the naked eye. There are many reasons for barcodes of this nature including aesthetic, as to not ruin the look of a product, as well as brand authentication, security or tracking.

Industry & Application Uses

• Brand authentication – This has become a major problem worldwide over the pass few decades. This includes everything from pharmaceuticals, fake meds from China, to cosmetics and luxury goods such as fake wallets and handbags. Fake products whether imported or not create lost revenue to the manufactures and possible litigation issues to the sellers.
• Package design – Many manufacturers and retailers use packaging with branding and colored designs leaving little room for visible barcodes. Invisible barcodes can be applied without using valuable real estate or interfering with the design. Additionally, these can be applied at different locations on the packaging, allowing barcoding scanners to easily read the codes no matter the positioning on the package.
• Product Identification – Serial numbers and warning labels can utilize invisible barcodes to identify product information including product issues and requirement or possible recalls.

https://www.universeoptics.com/invisible-barcodes-for-retailers-and-manufacturers/

[MyNameIsLegion]

Here's a possible invisible barcode strategy that doesn't require printing a unique barcode for each inner sleeve and holder.

Inner sleeve: preprinted X# of sleeves with 12345

Holder: Preprinted x # of holders with 6789

specific copy of ASM-252: Normal barcode: 123456789(not visible on the label)-A2345gh595 where the trailing digits are specific to the individual copy of the book graded.  The inner sleeve and holder comprise the verification of the sequence expected for a specific book.  There's little chance a scammer could find or know, sight unseen what the inner and outer sequence is to match them or marry them with the same book in a lesser grade to swap out.  When CGC receives a reholder they scan the inner and outer well to verify the invisible barcode.  Fast and efficient. Is it 100% foolproof? No, nothing is 100% Not ever, but it's a possible improvement that could be cost-effective. 

Edited January 2 by MyNameIsLegion

[THE_BEYONDER]

On 1/2/2024 at 7:27 AM, MyNameIsLegion said:

Here's a possible invisible barcode strategy that doesn't require printing a unique barcode for each inner sleeve and holder.

Inner sleeve: preprinted X# of sleeves with 12345

Holder: Preprinted x # of holders with 6789

specific copy of ASM-252: Normal barcode: 123456789(not visible on the label)-A2345gh595 where the trailing digits are specific to the individual copy of the book graded.  The inner sleeve and holder comprise the verification of the sequence expected for a specific book.  There's little chance a scammer could find or know, sight unseen what the inner and outer sequence is to match them or marry them with the same book in a lesser grade to swap out.  When CGC receives a reholder they scan the inner and outer well to verify the invisible barcode.  Fast and efficient. Is it 100% foolproof? No, nothing is 100% Not ever, but it's a possible improvement that could be cost-effective. 

This would be great moving forward, but what do we do with the millions of slabs already out there? How do we make them immune to the current switcheroo?

[Steven Valdez]

On 1/2/2024 at 11:51 PM, THE_BEYONDER said:

This would be great moving forward, but what do we do with the millions of slabs already out there? How do we make them immune to the current switcheroo?

That ship has sailed... horse has bolted... genie out of the bottle.

[THE_BEYONDER]

On 1/2/2024 at 7:56 AM, Steven Valdez said:

That ship has sailed... horse has bolted... genie out of the bottle.

So…just change nothing?

[wiparker824]

On 1/1/2024 at 9:42 PM, ADAMANTIUM said:

Thanks for speaking up and somehow getting the gist of what I meant. Slab doesn't need to be perfectly intact for a reholder.

I'm tired and kind of stressed, but if someone can drive that point home when these videos are posted, it'll serve a purpose.

No one should be making these videos without expecting trouble.

The only people videos like this will fool is buyers on eBay and etc.... not cgc

I’m not entirely sure why it was ever a debate. They literally say that on the submission form:

The problem of course is the last bit, they clearly were taking those that had been opened and were beyond a minor chip or crack. 
 

Also it’s not like people were unkowningly catching a regrade. These services (reholder vs grading) have and always have had entirely different TAT’s and most importantly prices for the fees. If you’re book was too damaged to qualify for a reholder you’d have been contacted by CGC, they didn’t just regrade it and not tell you. This of course does bring up one other nuance to our bad actor who pulled this off. Which is, even if the inspector for the reholder decided their slab was too banged up for a reholder, they’d have emailed them and asked them if they wanted to proceed with the regrade to which they’d have obviously said no to to avoid being found out.

Edited January 2 by wiparker824
More thoughts.

[MAR1979]

On 1/2/2024 at 12:29 AM, wombat said:

Well we certainly hit a record for someone quoting their own posts. 

Self-love

[BlancoBros]

On 1/2/2024 at 7:51 AM, THE_BEYONDER said:

This would be great moving forward, but what do we do with the millions of slabs already out there? How do we make them immune to the current switcheroo?

Totally guessing here, but if there is a class action lawsuit, cgc could offer a credit per slab. Customer would pay shipping and credit expires by a certain date. 
But what they will bank on, is people won't send their book in for various reasons.
1) some customers won't bother cause they don't want to pay shipping.
2) some will worry that their books will regrade lower.
3) other will worry of possible of possible lost, theft or damage of their books in transit.
4) They forgot or don't know about it.

I'm guessing this based off a ticketmaster case action lawsuit several years back. They offered ticket vouchers. the catch was the new concert you would see had to be 1) a live nation venue 2) on an approved list
In five years, I was never able to use them because of the stupid rules. The closest concerts were always 5+ hours away or sold-out in seconds.

The "non-immune" cases will just continue to exist.

[MyNameIsLegion]

On 1/2/2024 at 6:51 AM, THE_BEYONDER said:

This would be great moving forward, but what do we do with the millions of slabs already out there? How do we make them immune to the current switcheroo?

Well practically speaking we can’t reholder them all. This is really a chain of custody issue, as @comix4fun pointed out about 200+ pages ago. All slabs that currently reside with their original submitter aren’t really in question (unless they are cracking their own to swap) It’s the ones that change hands and purchased from a 3rd party that are in question. In my mind this is probably solvable via an app or website that tracks chain of custody when slabs are bought and sold. Again, CGC could turn this into a profit center by having members subscribe to this online registration and verification site. Then slabs that are registered command a premium over hooker slabs prowling the back alleys online where you get what you get and you takes your chances!

Edited January 2 by MyNameIsLegion

[Steven Valdez]

On 1/2/2024 at 11:57 PM, THE_BEYONDER said:

So…just change nothing?

Any suggestions??

[Steven Valdez]

On 1/3/2024 at 12:15 AM, BlancoBros said:

1) some customers won't bother cause they don't want to pay shipping.

Damn right. Not everyone lives in the USA. I'm not paying untold hundreds in postage to send my books halfway around the world and back for CGC's negligence.

Also, who wants to risk a reholder with those guys? That's where this entire debacle began.

Edited January 2 by Steven Valdez

[pdags]

On 1/2/2024 at 7:57 AM, THE_BEYONDER said:

So…just change nothing?

I try not to speculate on what CGC needs to do to fix this.  They're the experts, let them do their job.  But, anything that involves changing the slab in any way (chips, barcodes, etc.) won't fix the old slabs without a re-holder (haha).

My speculative thought (aka thinking out loud): vI don't see the re-holdering process at its current price point lasting.  If every book has to be "regraded" to verify authenticity, you might as well send the book back through the grading line.  Either the grade stands or it doesn't upon re-holder.  If the re-holder process has an abridged "grading" evaluation process, people will find a way to scam it.  Think about it, are we going to get a new option that's the opposite of the new grade pre-screen...  "Please don't re-holder my book if the grade is lower." 

They could use computers to compare the before and after photos...  but that's already been discussed and the concomitant problems with it.

Edited January 2 by pdags

[HotKey]

FFS this thread has been going on since LAST YEAR! 

[pdags]

On 1/2/2024 at 8:37 AM, HotKey said:

FFS this thread has been going on since LAST YEAR! 

Even more importantly... I've spent no money collecting comics this year.

Edited:  On second thought, that might depend on when the Credit Card charge clears. 

Edited January 2 by pdags

[sledgehammer]

On 1/2/2024 at 7:38 AM, pdags said:

Even more importantly... I've spent no money collecting comics this year.

Edited:  On second thought, that might depend on when the Credit Card charge clears. 

Keep us posted.

Get it, ..."posted"?

[pdags]

On 1/2/2024 at 8:49 AM, sledgehammer said:

Get it, ..."posted"?

I'm good...  the purchase will clear in the New Year but the transaction date will be still be 12/31.   

Edited January 2 by pdags

[wiparker824]

On 1/2/2024 at 6:38 AM, pdags said:

Even more importantly... I've spent no money collecting comics this year.

Edited:  On second thought, that might depend on when the Credit Card charge clears. 

I’ve already made some raw purchases in 2024… but I’ve not sent a dime to CGC this year 

 

…until they open the package I already sent them sitting on their warehouse floor.