ASM #252 CGC 9.8 Record Sale - something fishy going on? - Holder Tampering Incident confirmed by CGC 50 50

[NewWorldOrder]

On 1/4/2024 at 9:50 PM, BrashL said:

Yea you’re kinda proving my point. Sleep on it and maybe it will make sense in the morning. 
 

Also raw is the competition and always has been but that point seems to have sailed over your head. 
 

And man if you’re older than me (I wish I was still in my 20’s) and still have this precarious a grasp on simple concepts. Yikes. 

I don't think you are getting some basic points here.

The competition is for raw comics of course but no raw books will sell for more than what it would sell for in the same grade or higher in a graded holder.  

Also the competition for RAW comics many times is with the intent to get them into a CGC holder.  I know they are many raw collectors out there, but more often then not the best of the best comic books one day will usually wind up in a CGC holder. 

On 1/4/2024 at 10:10 PM, ExNihilo said:

I've been on holiday since this whole thing exploded and there's no way I'm reading nearly 300 pages to get caught up on it.  I get the gist of it though...someone found a way to open cases, swapped to lesser books, sent for reholder, and rinsed and repeated.  How this was all figured out is lost on me.  As are any other deeper points.  At this point...

...i'm too afraid to ask.

That's about it so far.... and that CGC released the list containing 350 books that may have been tampered with.

[gmasstermcd]

On 1/4/2024 at 10:18 PM, NewWorldOrder said:

Listen dude tough to have a real conversation with someone who doesnt know what auction sites even charge or knows the difference between market value and net profit.

 

Heritage charges 10% sellers and 20% buyers premium I simplified it into 30% I know the numbers are functionally different but the resulting difference is miniscule, and yes you can negotiate sellers premium depending on what you are selling up to and including a negative sellers fee, however that is for top echelon comics. Also I understand the difference between market value and net profit, but the comparison you should make is between market value and gross profit not net profit. As the amount you would receive from an auction company is still not your net profit. That being said when talking about how much money you would receive from a sale and comparing the percentage someone offers to buy your books versus fair market value and comparing what you would receive from an auction company after they take their fees is the same principle. All this because I think your offer of buying my entire collection for 50% FMV was not that bad of an offer.

[CHASEnBLUE]

On 1/1/2024 at 7:28 PM, onlyweaknesskryptonite said:

At least we almost have a way to fix these issues at home without being detected.  

Not to mention that they still cannot resolve the "residue" issue with many of the foil slabs...just sayin'...

[gmasstermcd]

On 1/4/2024 at 9:10 PM, NewWorldOrder said:

Where are they getting the ASM #300 % from?  That seems really high.

Well there are 350 books on the list 104 of them are ASM #300 and when you do the math 104/350 = 0.297 * 100 = 29.7. So I believe that's where they get it from.

The scary part is that 86 of the 104 are 9.8's which works out to 5.57% of the 1543 universal 9.8's that are potentially fraudulent. About 1 in 20.

[Sigur Ros]

On 1/4/2024 at 9:57 PM, Buzzetta said:

How did the scammer scam the Yellow Label SS?  Are we suggesting that he forged signatures?

He can't forge, because then the inner well would be open/missing  (please tell me CGC would catch that 🙏).

Maybe he's not doing anything, or maybe he's swapping out for lesser grade or green label SS.

[Sigur Ros]

On 1/4/2024 at 11:30 PM, BrashL said:

First of all, this scam devalues CGC, not comics in general. 

Exactly.

He's working so hard to cover for CGC he's missing the entire point.

This doesn't diminish the value of comic books.  It dimishes the value of CGC.

Just like all the missed resto with Ewert.

[sledgehammer]

Sep-05

$13500

4036499008

4 different copies of ASM 300 in this one submission, all on the list, and this was the newstand reported sale of one of them.

I'm thinking scamboy had prime rib at the crime family Thanksgiving dinner at his house.

[sledgehammer]

Josh-

Any chance that you can put up the photos that you believe show that there is no chance that there is something wrong with the Avengers 8.5 #57 that you reviewed?

I think it might be helpful if everyone can see that there is clearly a way that you can confirm there is nothing wrong with it.

I'm still concerned about the recent listing put up, for a 9.0 ASM 129 with an MJ insert, that Roy said he called you (comiclink) about, and was told "A-OK".

@COMICLINK

[comicwiz]

On 1/5/2024 at 1:10 AM, ExNihilo said:

I've been on holiday since this whole thing exploded and there's no way I'm reading nearly 300 pages to get caught up on it.  I get the gist of it though...someone found a way to open cases, swapped to lesser books, sent for reholder, and rinsed and repeated.  How this was all figured out is lost on me.  As are any other deeper points.  At this point...

...i'm too afraid to ask.

 

[sledgehammer]

Damn.

If scamboy is still holding that yellow 6.5 AF 15, putting it on the list could have quite a punishing affect.

It has quite the "silver letter" quality to the back cover now.

[comicwiz]

Deleted

 

 

Edited February 15 by comicwiz

[pdags]

On 1/5/2024 at 8:01 AM, sledgehammer said:

putting it on the list could have quite a punishing affect.

That's an interesting thought.  Maybe CGC put certain comics on their list as a way to take Briva3 off the market as best they can without identifying him.

[pdags]

On 1/5/2024 at 8:13 AM, comicwiz said:

it's $175,634. This is only 17 books out of the approximate 350 comics on CGC's list of "impacted" books.

I know it's not as easy as that total, but still... 

Thanks for getting some early estimates on cost/loss, etc.

[THE_BEYONDER]

On 1/5/2024 at 8:13 AM, pdags said:

That's an interesting thought.  Maybe CGC put certain comics on their list as a way to take Briva3 off the market as best they can without identifying him.

Isn’t it just a list of all the reholders that Briva3 submitted?

[comicwiz]

Information withheld.

 

Edited February 15 by comicwiz

[comicwiz]

On 1/5/2024 at 8:26 AM, THE_BEYONDER said:

Isn’t it just a list of all the reholders that Briva3 submitted?

It's appearing more widespread than this

Edited January 5 by comicwiz

[drotto]

On 1/5/2024 at 8:26 AM, THE_BEYONDER said:

Isn’t it just a list of all the reholders that Briva3 submitted?

Possibly, but the sequential certificate numbers confuse things.  The only way you get sequential numbers is if all those books are from the same original grading submission, and originate from the same person. Since reholders keep their number, all the  numbers would be random in theory.  Unless, the scammer is submitting multiple copies of legitimate 9.8 comics at one time. Getting those back, swapping the books, and then personally sending in those swapped books for reholder. Then the sequential numbering would be retained. 

 

If this is the case, it means he has multiple legitimate 9.8 copies, and when you see runs of sequential 9.8's, this is him rolling those legit books for repeated submission. Current books within those sequential certificate numbers are therefor the most likely to be fraudulent. So yes, out of those 80 or so 9.8 ASM 300's, likely 75 are not real 9.8's. The 9.6's are likely just bad luck that on that run through, where his good 9.8 either received a lower score (we know things are subjective), or possible had minor damage in the process at some point. Again so much of this depended on hiding in the numbers, so the real reason those ASM books were targeted.

 

The Hulk 181's are a bit less obvious, because of the need for the qualified books, and the expense of obtaining Ultra high grade legitimate books.  Maybe seeing 4 x 9.8's at one time was seen as too obvious or was just too expensive. He does not own multiple 9.8 or even 9.6 Hulk 181's. But the price bump from green to blue is still there. Where the real price bump on something like ASM 300 really requires that 9.8.

[drotto]

On 1/5/2024 at 7:34 AM, sledgehammer said:

Sep-05

$13500

4036499008

4 different copies of ASM 300 in this one submission, all on the list, and this was the newstand reported sale of one of them.

I'm thinking scamboy had prime rib at the crime family Thanksgiving dinner at his house.

That run a 4 consecutive ASM 300 is what makes me think he has at least 4 real 9.8's, certainly enough to really keep this rolling.

 

Still astounds me that one person submitting that many high grades from two or three issues would not raise any red flags. Who has that kinda supply of ultra high grades.  I have heard of people hoarding copies of key books, but never of that consistent quality level. 

Edited January 5 by drotto

[sledgehammer]

On 1/5/2024 at 8:13 AM, drotto said:

On 1/5/2024 at 6:34 AM, sledgehammer said:

Sep-05

$13500

4036499008

4 different copies of ASM 300 in this one submission, all on the list, and this was the newstand reported sale of one of them.

I'm thinking scamboy had prime rib at the crime family Thanksgiving dinner at his house.

That run a 4 consecutive ASM 300 is what makes me think he has at least 4 real 9.8's, certainly enough to really keep this rolling.

 

Still astounds me that one person submitting that many high grades from two or three issues would not raise any red flags. Who has that kinda supply of ultra high grades.  I have heard of people hoarding copies of key books, but never of that consistent quality level. 

Especially with the way that prices has been dropping over the last couple of years.

Non-stop reholders/custom labels, on books that are potentially/are already worth thousands of dollars.

it's not a good look.

[THE_BEYONDER]

What’s the cost of getting a reholder with a custom label?