ASM #252 CGC 9.8 Record Sale - something fishy going on? - Holder Tampering Incident confirmed by CGC 50 50

[comicwiz]

On 1/9/2024 at 10:28 AM, BrashL said:

This all brings it back to what a lot of people were saying originally, you can't trust any book in the current cases unless it's your book. Even then we need an explanation from CGC how so many books passed through the business without being flagged. Once there is a good explanation for how this fraud was perpetrated under their nose for so long, we need specific actions (what process has been changed, how many people have been replaced, etc.) that have been implemented. THEN we need a new case so collectors know what books they can trust and which ones they need to research to be sure they are what's on the label. Until then you'd have to be nuts to buy a CGC book for your own collection based on the information on the slab alone. 

100% in agreement with your assessment.

I shared this statement with someone yesterday: "We have arrived at a juncture in hobbying where the enterprising and transactional dynamics have rendered systems graders invented decades ago to counter fraud and tampering exposed and vulnerable. There's so much I can expand on this point, but it would be naive to believe it's tentacles don't reach any hobby with one or more grading services at this point."

[Panda2]

Looking at the Heritage auction last night, there were some pretty soft numbers...cause and effect?

[royaluglydudes]

Can someone explain to me why the name of a store or dealer you have proof that you purchased a suspected tampered book from has to be kept a secret?  I'm not seeing how stating a verifiable fact puts any one at risk, while not naming the store puts others at risk of unknowingly buying books that have been tampered with.  Especially since if these people are trying to liquidate their stock of these books they are likely offering cut-rate prices and people are getting duped into thinking they scored a great deal.

In some cases it's coming off as people enjoying being "in the know" while keeping others in the dark.

Edited January 9 by royaluglydudes

[comicjel]

On 1/9/2024 at 9:49 AM, mrd160 said:

When someone has proven that they’ll do anything for money, anything is possible. I think this guy was likely switching books, trimming books, faking SIGs, who knows but nothing is out of the realm of possibility. What has to happen is every book he has ever submitted needs to be scrutinized and any dealer he dealt with needs to be scrutinized. it’s very possible the dealer/dealers didn’t know what was going on but it is highly highly highly likely that he submitted books through dealer account or other peoples accounts maybe with them knowing, maybe with them not knowing but this is what needs to be investigated. There shouldn’t be a rush to judgment but there needs to be a thorough investigation. 

Well said!!

[mrd160]

 

For the safety of the community all the guys associates need to come to light. I definitely don’t see CGC releasing anything right now because there is an ongoing investigation. There’s enough information out there that a lot of people know who this is and just be careful. The truth is on Instagram

[mrd160]

I understand that the investigation is going to focus on online transactions because that’s the easiest to follow but my purchase was in person and he was set up at a show so I’m sure There are other books that we know nothing about that went to other dealers and other collectors. We may never know how deep this thing goes. It is what it is but a thorough investigation needs to be done

[sledgehammer]

On 1/9/2024 at 9:48 AM, royaluglydudes said:

Can someone explain to me why the name of a store or dealer you have proof that you purchased a suspected tampered book from has to be kept a secret?  I'm not seeing how stating a verifiable fact puts any one at risk, while not naming the store puts others at risk of unknowingly buying books that have been tampered with.  Especially since if these people are trying to liquidate their stock of these books they are likely offering cut-rate prices and people are getting duped into thinking they scored a great deal.

In some cases it's coming off as people enjoying being "in the know" while keeping others in the dark.

That doesn't make sense.

Comicwiz has put a monumental amount of work in to this. Maybe you're not aware of how staggering it is.

He has urged patience, and I agree with his thoughts.

[comicginger1789]

On 1/9/2024 at 10:48 AM, royaluglydudes said:

Can someone explain to me why the name of a store or dealer you have proof that you purchased a suspected tampered book from has to be kept a secret?  I'm not seeing how stating a verifiable fact puts any one at risk, while not naming the store puts others at risk of unknowingly buying books that have been tampered with.  Especially since if these people are trying to liquidate their stock of these books they are likely offering cut-rate prices and people are getting duped into thinking they scored a great deal.

In some cases it's coming off as people enjoying being "in the know" while keeping others in the dark.

Yeah like I said I haven't had time to scroll back....someone PM me and I will keep it quiet or tag the page if you know which one outlines which business has emerged as suspect numero uno. At the very least I would like to avoid them

[royaluglydudes]

I'm completely aware, and appreciate it. I wasn't referring to him and I maintain my stance that at this point it's not helpful to keep people in the dark and risk more people falling victim to this fraud.

Edited January 9 by royaluglydudes

[sledgehammer]

On 1/9/2024 at 10:05 AM, comicginger1789 said:

Yeah like I said I haven't had time to scroll back....someone PM me and I will keep it quiet or tag the page if you know which one outlines which business has emerged as suspect numero uno. At the very least I would like to avoid them

Why would you buy anything in the near future without giving it the 3rd degree? The 10th degree?

Look at everything else in the submission, and see if it smells bad to you.

Buy things conditionally. Make people aware of the issue.

[pdags]

My wife and I planning on visiting NY this summer.  Can someone list all the reputable stores I should visit in the Queens/Brooklyn area?

[sledgehammer]

On 1/9/2024 at 10:11 AM, pdags said:

My wife and I planning on visiting NY this summer.  Can someone list all the reputable stores I should visit in the Queens/Brooklyn area?

[Heronext]

On 1/9/2024 at 11:11 AM, pdags said:

My wife and I planning on visiting NY this summer.  Can someone list all the reputable stores I should visit in the Queens/Brooklyn area?

Your wife might make a great front for a comic scam... think about it

Edited January 9 by Heronext

[pdags]

On 1/9/2024 at 11:11 AM, sledgehammer said:

Why would you buy anything in the near future without giving it the 3rd degree?

I hate to say it, but I'm not buying anything that ships from the New England area (specially NY).

[pdags]

On 1/9/2024 at 11:11 AM, pdags said:

My wife and I planning on visiting NY this summer.  Can someone list all the reputable stores I should visit in the Queens/Brooklyn area?

Is this place reputable?  Send me a PM.

https://www.comicbookstation.com

I know you all are thinking I'm playing word games, but we really are planning on visiting NYC this summer and I usually make it a point to visit a comic book store or two.  My wife likes seeing the annual clothing exhibits at the met:  https://www.metmuseum.org/press/exhibitions/2023/sleeping-beauties.

Edited January 9 by pdags

[THE_BEYONDER]

[shadroch]

On 1/9/2024 at 9:12 AM, pdags said:

I hate to say it, but I'm not buying anything that ships from the New England area (specially NY).

New York is not part of New England. I'm not sure why it isn't, but it's not.

[pdags]

On 1/9/2024 at 11:23 AM, shadroch said:

New York is not part of New England. I'm not sure why it isn't, but it's not.

I'm from the South...  Everything above Virginia counts.  

[wiparker824]

On 1/9/2024 at 9:19 AM, pdags said:

Is this place reputable?  Send me a PM.

https://www.comicbookstation.com

I know you all are thinking I'm playing word games, but we really are planning on visiting NYC this summer and I usually make it a point to visit a comic book store or two.  My wife likes seeing the annual clothing exhibits at the met:  https://www.metmuseum.org/press/exhibitions/2023/sleeping-beauties.

I’d stick with the met. 

[Gonzimodo]

Huh.  That sure looks like one of those "reputable dealers" I'm always reading about here...