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ASM #252 CGC 9.8 Record Sale - something fishy going on? - Holder Tampering Incident confirmed by CGC
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Started by spidermanbeyond,

9,028 posts in this topic

bc

bc

Posted
Posted
On 1/9/2024 at 6:16 PM, NewWorldOrder said:

You mean the video that showed with the heat gun and how easy it was for even a novice to spot it was tampered with?

That one?

Not really sure that matters if he damages the corner and claims an ME or shipping damage after the swap.

-bc

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mrd160

mrd160

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On 1/9/2024 at 6:18 PM, NewWorldOrder said:

It was lol

I give him that.

Yes I mean it wouldn't surprise me if they gotten it past some collectors for sure, but again who knows the real number.

Since I don’t really do slabs….it would have gotten by me. 

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comicjel

comicjel

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On 1/9/2024 at 6:18 PM, bc said:

Not really sure that matters if he damages the corner and claims an ME or shipping damage after the swap.

-bc

At this point, even if nothing else is changed, CGC will need to review the photo they kept of the original book before they put in new holder without regrading - I can't imagine they have not already implemented that procedure.

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mrd160

mrd160

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On 1/9/2024 at 6:19 PM, NewWorldOrder said:

Right, but I think he was referring to more getting it by buyers via sales.

I honestly never thought something like this was even possible. No other way to say it….this is terrible 

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NewWorldOrder

NewWorldOrder

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On 1/9/2024 at 3:21 PM, comicjel said:

At this point, even if nothing else is changed, CGC will need to review the photo they kept of the original book before they put in new holder without regrading - I can't imagine they have not already implemented that procedure.

totally agree

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skybolt

skybolt

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On 1/9/2024 at 4:29 PM, BrashL said:

That's a good point, so far as I know no one to this day knows exactly how Ewert got the results he did. That's rocket science compared to what this group was up to.

Not to mention that CGC actually did spot some of the trimming and gave him qualified grades. I just wish they had put 2 and 2 together quicker.

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mrd160

mrd160

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On 1/9/2024 at 6:21 PM, NewWorldOrder said:

IDK I am sure your life-long skills in the hobby would have sniffed it out. 2c

I will share this here I met the alleged scammer in person and it really set off red flags for me, something about him, and I bought from them anyway which I’m still kicking myself on. We need to trust our judgment when it comes to people and  I did a fairly big deal with him privately and I’m lucky that it turns out my book is probably legit. But that’s just luck because he offered me a bunch more books at the same time some of which are on the hot 350 list. I will say this in CGC‘s defense matter what they do scammers are always going to try to scam. I just want this whole thing routed out because based on information I have (which I have already shared with CGC), It is very unlikely he acted alone. For the record that is not speculation that is based on my actual real life interaction. And believe me I have the receipts

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NewWorldOrder

NewWorldOrder

Posted
Posted (edited)
On 1/9/2024 at 3:22 PM, skybolt said:

Not to mention that CGC actually did spot some of the trimming and gave him qualified grades. I just wish they had put 2 and 2 together quicker.

Didn't you just prove my point with some?

Zero chance you can stop micro-trimming consistently with out the help of maybe AI.

I have no proof it is still happening and I hope to God it is not, but there stopping a professional seems impossible unlike this current scandal at the CGC level.

Edited by NewWorldOrder
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NewWorldOrder

NewWorldOrder

Posted
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On 1/9/2024 at 3:26 PM, mrd160 said:

I will share this here I met the alleged scammer in person and it really set off red flags for me, something about him, and I bought from them anyway which I’m still kicking myself on. We need to trust our judgment when it comes to people and  I did a fairly big deal with him privately and I’m lucky that it turns out my book is probably legit. But that’s just luck because he offered me a bunch more books at the same time some of which are on the hot 350 list. I will say this in CGC‘s defense matter what they do scammers are always going to try to scam. I just want this whole thing routed out because based on information I have (which I have already shared with CGC), It is very unlikely he acted alone. For the record that is not speculation that is based on my actual real life interaction. And believe me I have the receipts

Well I really hope the information you provided CGC really helped.  Thanks for calling in and helping. ^^

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mrd160

mrd160

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Posted

Here’s another take that may not be that popular here,CGC is technically the victim. What’s happening here is not their fault they have to take responsibility, I get it, but the companies been taking advantage of by a bad actor. That’s not me being a CGC apologist it happens to be a fact

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mrd160

mrd160

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On 1/9/2024 at 6:27 PM, NewWorldOrder said:

Well I really hope the information you provided CGC really helped.  Thanks for calling in and helping. ^^

You don’t get it I hate social media and I hate all this mess 😀 I only did this to help my fellow collectors which I do genuinely want to see do well lol I hate this mess. and I’ll say this, I’m a doctor, I’m unbelievably busy and my wife is an attorney and I had her take time out of her schedule to draft a stupid email and to deal with Matt Nelson and Company only to help other people because it looks like I’m in the clear. Thank God. 

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comicjel

comicjel

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On 1/9/2024 at 6:28 PM, mrd160 said:

Here’s another take that may not be that popular here,CGC is technically the victim. What’s happening here is not their fault they have to take responsibility, I get it, but the companies been taking advantage of by a bad actor. That’s not me being a CGC apologist it happens to be a fact

There are plenty of victims to go around - heck, anyone who has a high grade ASM #300 or #194 has likely realized an economic loss because of this, but I would have expected CGC to have better procedures with their reholdering - I trust that they will fix it, but I also hope they think out of the box at what the next type of scam could be.  

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NewWorldOrder

NewWorldOrder

Posted
Posted (edited)
On 1/9/2024 at 3:28 PM, mrd160 said:

Here’s another take that may not be that popular here,CGC is technically the victim. What’s happening here is not their fault they have to take responsibility, I get it, but the companies been taking advantage of by a bad actor. That’s not me being a CGC apologist it happens to be a fact

Well the other factor I am not seeing people really talk about here is these tampered books still have value.

Just take the 350 books total market value lets say is $1 million (just making this number up it up for example).

Some will get a clean bill of health and the value is still there (CGC owns nothing besides reholder/shipping/worker wages of that book)

Others will get a new grade and CGC has to decide how to pay the difference/credit.  Example ASM #300 CGC 9.8, but is really a CGC 9.2.  They have to buy the book, but still have a legit CGC 9.2 in a new tamper-free holder.

So it could be CGC would only owe half of that amount in buybacks.

Crude example but I think you get my point.

Edited by NewWorldOrder
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Ron C.

Ron C.

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Posted (edited)

CGC does need to update their slab though. The books that came in today from them (at least the ones that were not cracked....one small piece of bubble wrap for 5 books) all look like they were put together by a pre-school class with a glue gun. Even legitimate books look like they have been tampered with.

Edited by Ron C.
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wiparker824

wiparker824

Posted
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On 1/9/2024 at 4:30 PM, mrd160 said:

You don’t get it I hate social media and I hate all this mess 😀 I only did this to help my fellow collectors which I do genuinely want to see do well lol I hate this mess. and I’ll say this, I’m a doctor, I’m unbelievably busy and my wife is an attorney and I had her take time out of her schedule to draft a stupid email and to deal with Matt Nelson and Company only to help other people because it looks like I’m in the clear. Thank God. 

There are things about your case that are unique and largely important even if the book you bought happens to be legit. A lot of the sales of these books were funneled thru an eBay account or two or three, which are also important but don’t have the same interactions as a private sale. I really do hope the effort was not wasted and that it’s being investigated. 

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BrashL

BrashL

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On 1/9/2024 at 5:01 PM, NewWorldOrder said:

You keep coming back to doom and gloom and how your collecting life is over, which most think is silly.

Man you love those straw men don't you. So easy to knock down.

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