ASM #252 CGC 9.8 Record Sale - something fishy going on? - Holder Tampering Incident confirmed by CGC 50 50

[Superman2006]

On 1/9/2024 at 7:28 PM, GDN said:

On 1/9/2024 at 5:52 PM, Superman2006 said:

Not just directed to you since everyone seems to have read the gocollect statement in the same way, but I don't see where gocollect's statement indicates that they will be deleting records, instead they state they will "remove the threat" of buying a book that isn't what it claims to be by providing you with prior scans for a given cert #. At least that's the way I read it.

"Any fraudulent sales can be reported directly to GoCollect for removal from our database"

That is the line I and others have issue with.  Not the "remove the threat" line.

Thanks, I didn't see that verbiage in the post that I responded to, but looking back at GoCollect's full comments in Adamantium's original post I see that now.

[THE_BEYONDER]

On 1/9/2024 at 7:28 PM, GDN said:

Edit:  I see GoCollect has responded on IG to Comicwiz and they state: "We agree these kinds of records should not be deleted.  They will be segregated and removed only from impacting the valuation of a particular item"

So all should be well.

[bc]

On 1/9/2024 at 7:27 PM, Stefan_W said:

 

The topic I brought up was restored comics that were identified as being restored on the slab, and when you look up the book in the CGC registry, but the label color was not purple. This was specific to that generation of custom labels where they were all blue. From the perspective of the topic I was bringing up (and that you cited) I do not see the issue as being the same as the current topic of a fraudulent seller duping people. Having said this I am sure a few people who were not paying attention may have paid full price for these books because they were blue label, but the info was there for them had they looked. 

My point in reposting that was to bring up the historic precedence that the elective reholdering process has been compromised for years in one way or another with little change to processes or QC.

-bc

[THE_BEYONDER]

On 1/9/2024 at 7:40 PM, bc said:

My point in reposting that was to bring up the historic precedence that the elective reholdering process has been compromised for years in one way or another with little change to processes or QC.

-bc

I blame this whole mess on the introduction of theses vanity custom labels.  Without them, we wouldn’t be where we are currently.

[agamoto]

On 1/9/2024 at 2:59 PM, comicjel said:

I would agree - and do think CGC will do what is needed to have this type of scam stopped (hopefully resulting in a safer holder in the long run).

I guess I will just stay concerned until we know more and hopefully see someone / people indicted! 

On 1/9/2024 at 3:16 PM, NewWorldOrder said:

You mean the video that showed with the heat gun and how easy it was for even a novice to spot it was tampered with?

That one?

No, the sequel where he put the slab in a commercial lab oven and found the exact temperature required to pop a slab apart with your fingernails. 

[THE_BEYONDER]

On 1/9/2024 at 7:43 PM, agamoto said:

No, the sequel where he put the slab in a commercial lab oven and found the exact temperature required to pop a slab apart with your fingernails. 

[agamoto]

On 1/9/2024 at 3:26 PM, mrd160 said:

I will share this here I met the alleged scammer in person and it really set off red flags for me, something about him, and I bought from them anyway which I’m still kicking myself on. We need to trust our judgment when it comes to people and  I did a fairly big deal with him privately and I’m lucky that it turns out my book is probably legit. But that’s just luck because he offered me a bunch more books at the same time some of which are on the hot 350 list. I will say this in CGC‘s defense matter what they do scammers are always going to try to scam. I just want this whole thing routed out because based on information I have (which I have already shared with CGC), It is very unlikely he acted alone. For the record that is not speculation that is based on my actual real life interaction. And believe me I have the receipts

On 1/9/2024 at 3:31 PM, mrd160 said:

CGC is not the bad guy here. It’s the scammer/scammers

If you actually want to see someone criminally investigated, you... and CGC... Might want to file a report. https://reportfraud.ftc.gov/

On 1/9/2024 at 4:18 PM, THE_BEYONDER said:

Would take some balls to crack an actual 9.8 Hulk 181

What’s a blue label 9.6 go for?

Good question, but I have found two 9.6 IH181's sold on eBay by our New York friend.

On 1/9/2024 at 4:48 PM, THE_BEYONDER said:

Oh yes, quite serious. 

 

[Stefan_W]

On 1/9/2024 at 7:40 PM, bc said:

My point in reposting that was to bring up the historic precedence that the elective reholdering process has been compromised for years in one way or another with little change to processes or QC.

-bc

Fair enough, I apologize if I misrepresented what you were trying to get across. 

[THE_BEYONDER]

On 1/9/2024 at 7:54 PM, agamoto said:

 

Oh yes, quite serious. 

 

I hope our prep isn’t using that oven method 

[bc]

On 1/9/2024 at 7:56 PM, Stefan_W said:

Fair enough, I apologize if I misrepresented what you were trying to get across. 

It's all good man, no need to apologize  

-bc

[agamoto]

On 1/9/2024 at 5:01 PM, THE_BEYONDER said:

I hope our prep isn’t using that oven method 

Well, with a decent calibrated lab oven going for around $1K, the barrier to entry isn't too high. 

[THE_BEYONDER]

On 1/9/2024 at 8:06 PM, agamoto said:

Well, with a decent calibrated lab oven going for around $1K, the barrier to entry isn't too high. 

Have we ruled out the idea that the perp has acquired the equipment and supplies to manufacture their own slabs?

[mjoeyoung]

On 1/9/2024 at 6:01 PM, THE_BEYONDER said:

I hope our prep isn’t using that oven method 

THIS is the thing that upsets me the most.  All of these restorations (pressing, bleaching, trimming, etc., etc., etc.) all to get a .2 or .4 grade bump may be irreparably damaging the long term stability of these books.  

[bc]

On 1/9/2024 at 8:07 PM, THE_BEYONDER said:

Have we ruled out the idea that the perp has acquired the equipment and supplies to manufacture their own slabs?

I personally don't believe that is an option.

He/They manipulated a vulnerable process/system/product for financial gain. Why invest in all that when they could have CGC "validate" their work?

-bc

[agamoto]

On 1/9/2024 at 5:07 PM, THE_BEYONDER said:

Have we ruled out the idea that the perp has acquired the equipment and supplies to manufacture their own slabs?

We may never know, because there's no active criminal investigation that I'm aware of, and if there were, they would have thrown the thing in the East River by now.

[mjoeyoung]

On 1/9/2024 at 6:10 PM, bc said:

I personally don't believe that is an option.

He/They manipulated a vulnerable process/system/product for financial gain. Why invest in all that when they could have CGC "validate" their work?

-bc

But others have shown that the slabs are available for sale.  If they are for sale, somebody is probably buying them.

[THE_BEYONDER]

On 1/9/2024 at 8:10 PM, bc said:

I personally don't believe that is an option.

He/They manipulated a vulnerable process/system/product for financial gain. Why invest in all that when they could have CGC "validate" their work?

-bc

I’m suggesting that may be how the scammer continued to get the books past CGC. 

[bc]

On 1/9/2024 at 8:11 PM, mjoeyoung said:

But others have shown that the slabs are available for sale.  If they are for sale, somebody is probably buying them.

I agree 100%.

Just don't think the scamming party is doing a full-blown recreation of the slabbing process. Doesn't make sense to me. Too big of a footprint/investment when all thats needed is a heat gun and a nice screwdriver to swap in the donor book and then send them off to CGC.

-bc

[THE_BEYONDER]

On 1/9/2024 at 8:14 PM, bc said:

I agree 100%.

Just don't think the scamming party is doing a full-blown recreation of the slabbing process. Doesn't make sense to me. Too big of a footprint/investment when all thats needed is a heat gun and a nice screwdriver to swap in the donor book and then send them off to CGC.

-bc

Those videos haven’t convinced me that CGC wouldn’t catch the work

[bc]

On 1/9/2024 at 8:11 PM, mjoeyoung said:

But others have shown that the slabs are available for sale.  If they are for sale, somebody is probably buying them.

I'm 100% sure that this reholdering scam exposed in this thread is not the only one happening in the collectibles world right now. 

Having a blank slab is quite a bit different than swapping books and taking advantage of a compromised process.

-bc