ASM #252 CGC 9.8 Record Sale - something fishy going on? - Holder Tampering Incident confirmed by CGC 50 50

[onlyweaknesskryptonite]

On 2/5/2024 at 12:14 AM, HighGrade said:

Just crazy, they will no doubt try to pin it all on the scammer

[comix4fun]

On 2/4/2024 at 11:43 AM, sledgehammer said:

@comix4fun

Do you have access to this, Chris?

I have the full NY suit filing downloaded now. If anyone really wants to read through it, PM me for an email of it. 

[MemorezGuy1]

Quite interesting item from the New York case:

Quote

(viii) Effecting assignments or transfers, forming new entities or associations or utilizing

any other device for the purpose of circumventing or otherwise avoiding the

prohibitions set forth in subparagraphs (i) through (vii).

Makes me wonder how liable these people are to exposure to "fraudulent conveyance" if they are trying to hide or protect their ill gotten gains (assets) inside these new LLCs they created just before or after the lawsuit filing.

[comicjel]

I guess one lesson here is that any books that are being sent to CGC should be photographed first!

[drotto]

On 2/5/2024 at 1:26 PM, MemorezGuy1 said:

Quite interesting item from the New York case:

Makes me wonder how liable these people are to exposure to "fraudulent conveyance" if they are trying to hide or protect their ill gotten gains (assets) inside these new LLCs they created just before or after the lawsuit filing.

If the LLC is formed after the fradulent activity was discovered, it would likely offer no protection. I may be wrong, but an LLC does not protect an individual from litigation if they were the guilty party.  It would protect other partners from another partner acting illegally without their involvement. If it is being used as a method to protect assets, it does not protect assets gained by illegal activity.

[mosconi]

On 2/4/2024 at 10:14 PM, HighGrade said:

As far as that store, looks like a decent operation, right? getting involved in this was certain doom. Just crazy, they will no doubt try to pin it all on the scammer, "try"
 

Yeah, I'm sure the store owner will try to plead total ignorance to the scammers activities to save his business.  If they can prove he was receiving monetary gains from these slab sales, then he may become a litigant as well.  Anyone believe this guy had no idea with what was going on behind the scenes, with hundreds if not thousands of submissions going through his company?         

[ramithard]

He had to know....all of the sudden his " friend" has mass amounts of Spidey # 300 at 9.8 ???....c'mon man

[sledgehammer]

On 2/5/2024 at 2:13 PM, mosconi said:

Yeah, I'm sure the store owner will try to plead total ignorance to the scammers activities to save his business.  If they can prove he was receiving monetary gains from these slab sales, then he may become a litigant as well.  Anyone believe this guy had no idea with what was going on behind the scenes, with hundreds if not thousands of submissions going through his company?         

I don't believe that the owner of the store will ever be able to make a reasonable argument, for applying for a new business license under a new name on December 18., other than the fact that he hoped there was going to be some potential for protecting assets.

He has owned three businesses and a restaurant

Comic book underground, there is no evidence I've seen, of a New York license.

Pressing station, there is evidence of a New York license, but it appears to be past due as of two years ago.

Comic book station, there is no evidence I've seen, of a New York license.

TC comics, the application date is noted as December 18, 2023.

On pressing stations website, there is a before, and after example of their work, where both of the comic books are in older slabs. an amazing fantasy 4.0, looks to have been pressed into an amazing fantasy 5.0. The page quality went from off-white, to cream/off-white. The after slab, has a grade date of 2013, and you can also see, what I am nearly 100% certain, is a reflection of the owner of comic book station.

clearly, the man should have a pretty substantial body of work and customers, going back for quite a while. That's why I'm so amazed, not to see any comments, reflecting his reputation.

Edited February 5 by sledgehammer

[comicjel]

On 2/5/2024 at 3:13 PM, mosconi said:

Yeah, I'm sure the store owner will try to plead total ignorance to the scammers activities to save his business.  If they can prove he was receiving monetary gains from these slab sales, then he may become a litigant as well.  Anyone believe this guy had no idea with what was going on behind the scenes, with hundreds if not thousands of submissions going through his company?         

I do not know this store owner from Adam, and I have never had any dealings with him or his store to my knowledge, but I feel it is more likely than not that he was duped by the scammer.

His store is effectively providing the vehicle for getting the books graded and likely selling many of them (basically adding credibility to the scammer) - I can not imagine an owner of a brick and mortar store risking his own reputation or subjecting his families financial well being to a scam like this.

Unless they invented this reholder scam together, at what point does the scammer go up to him and say... I have this great scam with CGC, and I need you to help add credibility to it!... and at what point does the store owner agree to do it?

I think it is much more likely that the scammer told him that he scored a great collection of multiple ungraded ASM 300s, etc.

I may be proved wrong here soon, but my nickel is that this guy was duped. 

Edited February 5 by comicjel

[awakeintheashes]

On 2/5/2024 at 4:42 PM, comicjel said:

His store is effectively providing the vehicle

Based on a photo or two, providing the heat gun as well…

[Mdesimone]

There is a photo of the 2 scammers with the store owner and his family on thanksgiving having turkey, there’s photo proof the store was bidding on the scammers auctions likely shilling, they’re also photos of them skiing together….

[EastEnd1]

On 2/5/2024 at 4:42 PM, comicjel said:

I do not know this store owner from Adam, and I have never had any dealings with him or his store to my knowledge, but I feel it is more likely than not that he was duped by the scammer.

His store is effectively providing the vehicle for getting the books graded and likely selling many of them (basically adding credibility to the scammer) - I can not imagine an owner of a brick and mortar store risking his own reputation or subjecting his families financial well being to a scam like this.

Unless they invented this reholder scam together, at what point would the scammer go up to him and say... I have this great scam with CGC, and I need you to help add credibility to it!

I think it is much more likely that the scammer told him that he scored a great collection of multiple ungraded ASM 300s, etc.

I may be proved wrong here soon, but my nickel is that this guy was dupped. 

Maybe... but that photo someone posted a ways back from the store's social media showing a display of books next to what appear to be a heat gun and a trimming table certainly have me wondering. 

[comicjel]

On 2/5/2024 at 4:48 PM, EastEnd1 said:

Maybe... but that photo someone posted a ways back from the store's social media showing a display of books next to what appear to be a heat gun and a trimming table certainly have me wondering. 

... yes, you make a good point!, there was that heat gun!

It just seems like the type of scam, that once you start successfully pulling it off, you would keep it to yourself.  There does not appear to be an aspect of it that requires two "outside" people to make it work.

I guess I want to believe that a business owner, with a pretty good gig, would not mess around with something like this!

 

[THE_BEYONDER]

On 2/5/2024 at 4:42 PM, comicjel said:

I do not know this store owner from Adam, and I have never had any dealings with him or his store to my knowledge, but I feel it is more likely than not that he was duped by the scammer.

His store is effectively providing the vehicle for getting the books graded and likely selling many of them (basically adding credibility to the scammer) - I can not imagine an owner of a brick and mortar store risking his own reputation or subjecting his families financial well being to a scam like this.

Unless they invented this reholder scam together, at what point does the scammer go up to him and say... I have this great scam with CGC, and I need you to help add credibility to it!... and at what point does the store owner agree to do it?

I think it is much more likely that the scammer told him that he scored a great collection of multiple ungraded ASM 300s, etc.

I may be proved wrong here soon, but my nickel is that this guy was duped. 

The store had pics on their Instagram page showing multiples of the books that the scammer was using.  I don’t think there’s any way that CBS wasn’t involved in this reholdering scam .

[comicjel]

On 2/5/2024 at 5:15 PM, THE_BEYONDER said:

The store had pics on their Instagram page showing multiples of the books that the scammer was using.  I don’t think there’s any way that CBS wasn’t involved in this reholdering scam .

Maybe I did not understand the Instagram photo... I thought it was showing books that were being offered for sale in the store, and if so, I could easily see the scammer consign many of his reholdered books there.  However, if the instagram page was displaying them as if belonging to the CBS owner, and not for sale, then I retract my comment!

I was also reminded about the heat gun!

[sledgehammer]

On 2/5/2024 at 4:15 PM, comicjel said:

 

It just seems like the type of scam, that once you start successfully pulling it off, you would keep it to yourself.  There does not appear to be an aspect of it that requires two "outside" people to make it work.

 

at this point, there is no indication that anybody wasn't able to keep it to themselves. If it wouldn't have been, for the certification numbers. showing up on GPA, and CGC deciding to start putting scans in the graders notes last summer, there is almost no chance that anybody would be the wiser today.

Until I hear differently, the fact that everybody involved, started creating corporations, within seven, to 10 days of this being outed, makes it seem iincredibly naïve, to think that the first one that did is not heavily involved.

Edited February 5 by sledgehammer

[shadroch]

On 2/5/2024 at 2:48 PM, Mdesimone said:

There is a photo of the 2 scammers with the store owner and his family on thanksgiving having turkey, there’s photo proof the store was bidding on the scammers auctions likely shilling, they’re also photos of them skiing together….

If I had a customer who submitted millions of dollars worth of books through my store, I'd invite him for Thanksgiving and Christmas.  Most shops operate on thin margins, and a steady flow of income for submitting the guy's books would seem like a godsend.  

I'd like to give the shop owner the benefit of the doubt, for now. 

[comicjel]

On 2/5/2024 at 5:29 PM, sledgehammer said:

at this point, there is no indication that anybody wasn't able to keep it to themselves. If it wouldn't have been, for the certification numbers. showing up on GPA, and making zero sense, and CGC deciding to start putting scans in the graders notes last summer, there is almost no chance that anybody would be the wiser today.

Until I hear differently, the fact that everybody involved, started creating corporations, within seven, to 10 days of this being outed, makes it seem iincredibly naïve, to think that the first one that did is not heavily involved.

I think about all those Hulk 181s that went from green to blue - I would think those would have led CGC to figuring this out eventually (at least internally) when buyers eventually tried CPR on them.

I also think buyers would start to figure the scam out when they went back to see if their recently purchased book had been previously sold, and see a different book.

It was far from a perfect crime - the more they sold, the more bread crumbs were being left.

But everyone is convincing me, I probably am being incredibly naive to think he was duped!

 

[Mdesimone]

On 2/5/2024 at 5:39 PM, shadroch said:

If I had a customer who submitted millions of dollars worth of books through my store, I'd invite him for Thanksgiving and Christmas.  Most shops operate on thin margins, and a steady flow of income for submitting the guy's books would seem like a godsend.  

I'd like to give the shop owner the benefit of the doubt, for now. 

Curious do shop owners make millions by submitting customer books to cgc for them? 

[sledgehammer]

On 2/5/2024 at 4:42 PM, comicjel said:

I think about all those Hulk 181s that went from green to blue - I would think those would have led CGC to figuring this out eventually (at least internally) when buyers eventually tried CPR on them.

I also think buyers would start to figure the scam out when they went back to see if their recently purchased book had been previously sold, and see a different book.

It was far from a perfect crime - the more they sold, the more bread crumbs were being left.

But everyone is convincing me, I probably am being incredibly naive to think he was duped!

 

just making the case as I see it. I did the same thing with O.J. Simpson. Lol.

Just remember, it's a pretty small percentage of comic books, I would think, like Hulk High value 181s, that come out of the slabs.

my guess is, the same, applies to 9.8 Spider-Man comics

Generally, you can count on them being sold as slabs, for years and years.