ASM #252 CGC 9.8 Record Sale - something fishy going on? - Holder Tampering Incident confirmed by CGC 50 50

[jsilverjanet]

CGC is a corporation and like all corporations it's goal is to make money

sometimes that involves making things more efficient

sometimes quality is sacrificed for efficiency (aka profits)

I have seen enough in the past 3 years that suggest to me quality is no longer their priority

why should they, books keep coming in

mistakes keep going out

[sledgehammer]

On 12/20/2023 at 4:54 PM, jsilverjanet said:

you don't have to fill out a form for them to add something they made a mistake on

you can just call them, tell the problem and they will notate it on the account

 

Even if you weren't the customer when they made the mistake?

He (our crooked seller) was saying that the mistake was made, a different time that the book was graded.

Why draw attention to that?

[MAR1979]

On 12/20/2023 at 3:54 PM, VintageComics said:

Dude, why are you always so negative toward CGC? Did they spit in your cornflakes? 

Twas Raisin Bran, still how on earth did you know ahout the spiddle?

[jsilverjanet]

On 12/20/2023 at 4:57 PM, sledgehammer said:

Even if you weren't the customer when they made the mistake?

He (our crooked seller) was saying that the mistake was made, a different time that the book was graded.

Why draw attention to that?

i don't think they track things down to that degree (are you the original owner? he can easily say yes)

again they get 100s of calls, 1000s of orders daily,

move in and move out

it's a asm252 not an amazing fantasy 15

this is not something someone would stop what they are doing to make sure everything is on the up and up

I've seen many examples where the customer has been taken at their word

I've had happen to me a few times

 

[VintageComics]

On 12/20/2023 at 5:59 PM, MAR1979 said:

Twas Raisin Bran, still how on earth did you know ahout the spiddle?

I'm going to label you, Thoth, Sigur and Sledge as the Four Horsemen of Doom.

 

[MAR1979]

On 12/20/2023 at 5:57 PM, sledgehammer said:

Even if you weren't the customer when they made the mistake?

He (our crooked seller) was saying that the mistake was made, a different time that the book was graded.

Why draw attention to that?

Peeps get brazen when they are positive they will get away with it. Conversely stupidity is most plentiful commodity in history

 

BTW this thread has legs

Edited December 20, 2023 by MAR1979

[VintageComics]

On 12/20/2023 at 6:00 PM, jsilverjanet said:

i don't think they track things down to that degree (are you the original owner? he can easily say yes)

again they get 100s of calls, 1000s of orders daily,

move in and move out

it's a asm252 not an amazing fantasy 15

this is not something someone would stop what they are doing to make sure everything is on the up and up

I've seen many examples where the customer has been taken at their word

I've had happen to me a few times

 

If I understand your point correctly, it doesn't matter who the owner of the book is any more than who owns a car if the car is in need of a recall.

If there's a recall on a car, the recall gets fixed regardless of who the owner is. The recall is linked to the VIN, not the customer. 

This book's history is linked to the cert number and that will be enough for them to investigate what happened along the way.

[jsilverjanet]

isn't it said that the reason crooks get caught is because they get greedy and keep doing the same thing over and over

I doubt that CGC tracks # of reholders, changes to labels, mechanical errors by the customer

of course if they did, they would see a pattern but no one is looking for that because their QC is only on the product going out

they have QC for the product coming in (raw books) but i doubt there is any QC for the categories these books are being submitted by

 

[jsilverjanet]

On 12/20/2023 at 5:03 PM, VintageComics said:

If I understand your point correctly, it doesn't matter who the owner of the book is any more than who owns a car if the car is in need of a recall.

If there's a recall on a car, the recall gets fixed regardless of who the owner is. The recall is linked to the VIN, not the customer. 

This book's history is linked to the cert number and that will be enough for them to investigate what happened along the way.

what is more likely

do you think they have the time to do that level of investigation for a copper book?

or

they take a customers word?

I honestly doubt they even ask - they probably think Timmy in grading or labeling screwed up again and I have to fix his/her mistake

 

Edited December 20, 2023 by jsilverjanet

[Chip Cataldo]

On 12/20/2023 at 6:03 PM, jsilverjanet said:

of course if they did, they would see a pattern but no one is looking for that because their QC is only on the product going out

they have QC for the product coming in (raw books) but i doubt there is any QC for the categories these books are being submitted by

They barely have any QC at all that matches the volume of product they handle, so this is really a moot point.

[jsilverjanet]

let's say for arguments sake, that they do all the things that we would like them to do

ask the questions, inspect the books then it's even worse

they should have caught this a long time ago (if those processes/procedures are in place)

ignorance is one thing, negligence on the other hand....

 

[jsilverjanet]

sooner or later there is going to be a class action lawsuit commercial playing at 3am in the morning

have you or someone you know been victim of CGC

call 1-800-Greggy

[AbsoluteCarnage]

I remember Still only 20cents posting this not too long ago in the where's the quality thread, and i do see "reholder comic" as one of the submissions so it should just be a matter of going into that specific submitter's account and the info should be there.........

Shouldn't take a team of 47 ppl and Sherlock Holmes captaining the event to get the info they need to see if there's a pattern.

 

[jsilverjanet]

On 12/20/2023 at 5:13 PM, AbsoluteCarnage said:

I remember Still only 20cents posting this not too long ago in the where's the quality thread, and i do see "reholder comic" as one of the submissions so it should just be a matter of going into that specific submitter's account and the info should be there.........

Shouldn't take a team of 47 ppl and Sherlock Holmes captaining the event to get the info they need to see if there's a pattern.

 

correct so it begs the question

did they know (see the info above)

or did they not know?

this shows that their quality/shipping/case (newton rings) has created this issue to begin with

this one customer is taking advantage that now they need to verify the issues with customers like the one above?

if they had been doing a better job, then issues like the one would be easier to spot

[jsilverjanet]

looks like it's negligence if they are pulling up the customers account- the pattern should be easy to spot

CGC has some of the blame no matter which way you look at it

 

[AbsoluteCarnage]

On 12/20/2023 at 6:16 PM, jsilverjanet said:

correct so it begs the question

did they know (see the info above)

or did they not know?

this shows that their quality/shipping/case (newton rings) has created this issue to begin with

this one customer is taking advantage that now they need to verify the issues with customers like the one above?

if they had been doing a better job, then issues like the one would be easier to spot

Yeah I wasn't debating what you were getting at. Just pointing out that the access is there for them to further inspect the current scenario. Easier to say they should have done it retroactively but who would be looking for that unless there was some sort of fault trip system set in place for repeat submissions or something to that effect.

[sledgehammer]

On 12/20/2023 at 5:00 PM, VintageComics said:

I'm going to label you, Thoth, Sigur and Sledge as the Four Horsemen of Doom.

 

Gee. What a nice thing to say about one of your former customers.

Maybe if I had spent more than $450, you could manage to be a little more polite?

[jsilverjanet]

On 12/20/2023 at 5:19 PM, AbsoluteCarnage said:

Yeah I wasn't debating what you were getting at. Just pointing out that the access is there for them to further inspect the current scenario. Easier to say they should have done it retroactively but who would be looking for that unless there was some sort of fault trip system set in place for repeat submissions or something to that effect.

no worries, my point is that CGC has some culpability. It's their product, they are the ones making the change to the book and putting it back out there

 

[comicwiz]

On 12/20/2023 at 6:13 PM, AbsoluteCarnage said:

I remember Still only 20cents posting this not too long ago in the where's the quality thread, and i do see "reholder comic" as one of the submissions so it should just be a matter of going into that specific submitter's account and the info should be there.........

Shouldn't take a team of 47 ppl and Sherlock Holmes captaining the event to get the info they need to see if there's a pattern.

 

Hate to say it, but CGC long ago revealed what type of "examination" they felt was "not a good business decision" for them. They lost my business after that.

Comparing that situation to this - I get people will note the pattern, but there is a level of human review and judgement which I doubt exists to even notice it. You can add this to the column of let's get an algorithm to alert us of such anomalous patterns, and if it costs us too much to code that algo, add it to the column of "not a good business decision" for us to do it.

Edited December 21, 2023 by comicwiz

[AbsoluteCarnage]

On 12/20/2023 at 6:23 PM, comicwiz said:

Hate to say it, but CGC long ago revealed what type of "examination" they felt was "not a good business decision" for them. They lost my business after that.

Comparing that situation to this - I get people will note the pattern, but there is a level of human review and judgement which I doubt exists to even notice it. You can add this to the column of let's get an algorithm to alert us of such anomalous patterns, and if it costs us to much to code that algo, add it to the column of "not a good business decision" for us to do it.

It's a doozy of a situation. That much is for sure.