The 'I submited a CGC 9.8 to be signed, and got back a Lower Grade' Mega Thread 2 2

[ShaggyB]

Typically, we discuss in the main signature thread our results from signing submissions.

However, there has been an alarming amount of people submitting 9.8 graded books and recieving 9.6 or lower books back with little to no grader notes to indicate why.

To highlight this problem, hopefully get some attention to it within CGC, and to de-clutter the main thread.. lets discuss these results here.

Try to have pics of before and after if you can. Share the notes if you can.

 

So to start, ill show Superman #75. Below is the unsigned book submitted

Here is what came back:

Grader note says "small bend left top of back cover".

So to make things worse, i sent back to press the commented light bend to back left corner, and recieved back spine stress that was not present before

You can see the stress on the back best near the '!' And you can compare to the og signing and note its not there.

 

What examples do you all have?

Edited December 21, 2023 by ShaggyB

[ShaggyB]

Ok adding to the list with my two Spawn J. Scott Campbell signings

Here is what i sent:

And with no notes on why, here is what came back:

Not seeing a reason why, corners look good, spine has no stress, no bends.... 

We really really need notes on this stuff

Edited December 21, 2023 by ShaggyB

[AbsoluteCarnage]

Wish I still had scans of books from 2010 or or around that time when I submitted an ASM 229 and 230 combo both perfect looking books and they came back 9.4 and 9.6 SS JRJR. They still looked perfect in the cases. Eventually years later when I sold about 20-30 SS 9.8 ASMs I ended up giving them both away for free to buyers that bought multiples of my other books as they were starting to drive me nutty just having them take that grade drop both books costing me $350-450 CAD in CGC 9.8 blue. To be honest though that was the only instance of any of my 9.8 blues going below a 9.6 with that 1 9.4 yellow from blue to SS I believe. Just had to be those 2 beautiful Juggernaut books

[ShaggyB]

Yeah i know that feeling... did you get grader notes?

 

I got 1 more campbell shipment of 8 coming tomorrow where ASM 601 went down to 9.6.

The other 7 kept the 9.8... so 30% of my campbell order dropped to 9.6.... so far no grader notes on why

Edited December 21, 2023 by ShaggyB

[wiparker824]

This is why I always send 9.4’s and 9.6’s for signings… or just raw high grade. I think the thing nobody wants to say is that 9.8’s on any given day by another grader often become 9.6’s. Even in cases where there is nothing additional that happens like a bend during handling.9.8’s are just so risky to send because they can only go one direction (barring the miracle 9.9/10.0.). Just not worth the risk to me. Just my 2 cents.

[ShaggyB]

On 12/21/2023 at 10:05 PM, wiparker824 said:

This is why I always send 9.4’s and 9.6’s for signings… or just raw high grade. I think the thing nobody wants to say is that 9.8’s on any given day by another grader often become 9.6’s. Even in cases where there is nothing additional that happens like a bend during handling.9.8’s are just so risky to send because they can only go one direction (barring the miracle 9.9/10.0.). Just not worth the risk to me. Just my 2 cents.

Ultimately, i think they need to tighten up the process and require notes that detail exactly why something isnt a higher grade.

To me, this feels like the grader just decided on a whim to call it 9.6 today.

That superman #75 really pissed me off because the one note i got was well within the limits they decribbed in their book to be a 9.8.

Then when it gets pressed its damaged further. I can see the new note about spine stress and can see the spine stress.

So yeah it should be a 9.6 now.... before, not so much.

 

Again, it comes down to they dont give eniugh detail on why something went down and it warrants it if the book is coming in as a regrade due to the signing.

That previous grade should hold a very high standing with the grader to prove why it has gone down or maintain it.

Again, my pressed supes 75 has spine stess caused by cgc that wasnt there on the original or the after grade version that dropped from 9.8 to 9.6.

I can see the issues on it after resubmission #2 w/ pressing and they should be called out and would warrant the grader making the overrule and lowering the grade. But i expect full notes on why. And if a grader cant or doesnt want to do that.. it should keep the O.G. grade

Edited December 22, 2023 by ShaggyB

[wiparker824]

On 12/21/2023 at 10:29 PM, ShaggyB said:

That previous grade should hold a very high standing with the grader to prove why it has gone down or maintain it.

Yeah, that’s not how it works in the slightest though. The previous grade is unknown to the graders. They don’t know if it’s been pressed, graded previously, who submitted, or anything else about the book on a submission. The only time the previous grade has any carryover is on a reholder. Which is why I said on any given day a 9.6 can be a 9.8, and a 9.8 can be a 9.6. The difference in these 2 grades is razor thin, subjective in nature and very easy to flip from one to the other. And again why Id never recommend sending 9.8’s in for signing. The odds of devaluing the book are way too high. 

Should they handle books without ever creating damage? Yes. Should a 9.8 stay a 9.8? Yes. Should you have notes on every book not a 9.8? Yes. Will any of those ever happen? No. You got to understand the game you’re playing. 

[ShaggyB]

Oh i know that... but until they figure out how to grade more accurately or give proper notes for why a 9.6 isnt a 9.8, i feel they should see whats going on.

And the frequency it happens is simply too high. So instead of it getitng burried in the other thread, we can show it

Edited December 23, 2023 by ShaggyB

[ShaggyB]

ASM 601 before

and after.

Still no notes and nothing that looks like it would de-value it that wasnt there before.

[Ryan.]

For half a second I considered sending in a Matt Groening 9.8 for the Bill Morrison signing but this thread is a good reminder not to. 

[Gator Guru]

On 12/28/2023 at 7:58 AM, Ryan. said:

For half a second I considered sending in a Matt Groening 9.8 for the Bill Morrison signing but this thread is a good reminder not to. 

The other issue is you may get a bad signature. I have gotten upside down signatures as well as smeared signatures. Then there is the oddly placed signature. I even had peter david sign in black and then he did a very odd and weird wolverine claw sketch that looked awful. At conventions it is in-person so even though it seems riskier you have a better chance of getting a solid signature. Ive done so many signings by now I can tell you all about the signing style of these guys and gals.

[Le Chat Noir]

Had it happen a couple times (9.8 -> 9.6). Both managed to bump back to 9.8 after sending for a second press + regrade. If it bothers you, take the gamble.

Edited December 28, 2023 by Le Chat Noir

[Gator Guru]

On 12/28/2023 at 1:35 PM, Le Chat Noir said:

Had it happen a couple times (9.8 -> 9.6). Both managed to bump back to 9.8 after sending for a second press + regrade.

Have gone this route as well but always worried about the additional handling. Good to know its been a solid strategy thats worked for quite a few.

[ShaggyB]

On 12/28/2023 at 1:35 PM, Le Chat Noir said:

Had it happen a couple times (9.8 -> 9.6). Both managed to bump back to 9.8 after sending for a second press + regrade. If it bothers you, take the gamble.

Went that route on superman #75 and pressing cause damage to the book. It now has visible spine stress and that does deserve the 9.6 rating

Edited December 28, 2023 by ShaggyB

[Le Chat Noir]

On 12/28/2023 at 12:41 PM, ShaggyB said:

Went that route on superman #75 and pressing cause damage to the book. It now has visible spine stress and that does deserve the 9.6 rating

It's definitely a gamble. I've had stuff get damaged from grading/reholders, but not pressing (yet). 

[ShaggyB]

On 12/28/2023 at 2:04 PM, Le Chat Noir said:

It's definitely a gamble. I've had stuff get damaged from grading/reholders, but not pressing (yet). 

Yeah first post you can see before and after on the yellow slabs. Thats all pressing

[ivdyer]

On 12/28/2023 at 1:04 PM, Le Chat Noir said:

It's definitely a gamble. I've had stuff get damaged from grading/reholders, but not pressing (yet). 

I recently sent in a yellow label 9.6 for pressing and got back a qualified 9.4.  The qualification was a mistake on the part of CGC but grader notes indicated a fingerprint/crease that was NOT indicated on the grader notes on the 9.6.  While this certainly could have been missed on initial grading I am more inclined to believe that the book was damaged by CGC during pressing.  I am now getting a 9.4   

Edited December 28, 2023 by ivdyer

[Ron C.]

Black covers are really tough to keep 9.8s.... it's just too easy to scratch the inks.

This is one of the few of mine (also a black back cover) to go from 9.8 to 9.6 after signature.

[ShaggyB]

On 12/28/2023 at 5:11 PM, Ron C. said:

Black covers are really tough to keep 9.8s.... it's just too easy to scratch the inks.

This is one of the few of mine (also a black back cover) to go from 9.8 to 9.6 after signature.

Just a quick glance at the front... not seeing enough to warant 9.6

Slight corner on bottom left but thats mostly normal... so not sure if its something on the back causing it.

Nice book though

Edited December 29, 2023 by ShaggyB

[ShaggyB]

Well sending a few more in to signing events.

To Ramos and Slott:

And to Daniel Warren Johnson for sign and remarque:

Lets see what comes back.

 

Edit -

9.8 for spider-man #7

So thats a plus. I think this comes down to older graded books being a higher likelyhood of dropping

Edited April 12 by ShaggyB