dbcn Posted January 18 Share Posted January 18 Presumably, performing restoration on a book costs money, yes? I just got the notification that my ASM 194 book that I sent in for the Marv Wolfman signing a while back shipped, and came back as a C-1 - tbh, it wasn't a huge investment, I was more interested in getting the 1st appearance book signed by one of the creators than 'investment' - the grade is a bit lower than I'd hoped, and very happy to have grader notes. Which is where my question comes in - the C-1 designation says 'small amount of color touch on cover' - the grader notes say 'small amount of color touch on right center back cover' - but.... the back cover is an advertisement; why on earth would someone look at that book and say 'y'know what - that back advertisement doesn't look quite right, I'm going to pay to have someone touch it up' I would understand if there was damage to the front cover that needed touching up - that seems logical - the book would present better and look nicer overall, but I have zero idea why anyone would color touch the back cover. Also if anyone can point out where the color touch is, I'd appreciate it - I have no idea what to even look for. https://www.cgccomics.com/certlookup/4297039001/ Thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lightning55 Posted January 18 Share Posted January 18 Professional restoration costs money. Anyone with a pen, pencil, marker, etc., can touch up color to hide a white area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbcn Posted January 18 Author Share Posted January 18 Gotcha @Lightning55 - follow up question: how is the touch up determined to be 'restoration' pre se, ie if it's just some dude with a marker? I've seen plenty of pen ink dates, kids writing their names on the cover etc. & those are still blue labels - even unwitnessed signatures get green labels (which could qualify under 'anyone with a pen'); is it that there is intent to hide a defect that makes it restoration rather than qualified? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KCOComics Posted January 18 Share Posted January 18 Restoration is anything added to improve the appearance of the book. So a kid writing his name or adding a mustache to a character isn't resto. But if there is place where the color faded or a color breaking cease, and a kid takes a pen or market and colors it in, even if innocently done its resto. I had a book graded 15 years or so ago. There was a spot in magic marker. I never considered it CT because it didn't match the background well. To me it looked unintentional and if anything it made the book look worse. But CGC disagreed. I called, I argued... they disagreed. And i was so disappointed I sold the book at a loss because I just couldn't look at. namisgr 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lightning55 Posted January 18 Share Posted January 18 +1 to the above. I bet every collector eventually has a resto situation that bites them in the behind. Hate it when that happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbcn Posted January 18 Author Share Posted January 18 (edited) Thx @KCOComics & @Lightning55 - gtk. I actually don't mind the purple/yellow label tbh - just more confused as to why someone would want to patch up the back cover... I can't see anything, so I guess they did a pretty good job? Oh - maybe on the 'S' in Springfield? seems like an odd choice. Edited January 18 by dbcn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marvelmaniac Posted January 18 Share Posted January 18 Just a question of curiosity, how does CGC detect color touch other than a possible bleed through on the inside cover? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lightning55 Posted January 18 Share Posted January 18 CGC does a resto check on each book. That is one reason people like to buy graded books. No surprises, you are guaranteed an authentic book. Although resto has been missed from time to time, very rare. I believe that the first thing a grader checks for is restoration, after someone has done a page count at intake to make sure the book is complete. A trained eye will find signs of it, and there are always the usual suspect areas - corners, spine tics, edges, etc. Letting light reflect off the glossy surface can show inconsistencies in that reflection, due to the original finish possibly being worn off and recolored. It's very hard to duplicate the gloss in a perfectly smooth manner. I've heard that it is all done by eye, not with a black light, but maybe a magnifying glass once you think you have found something. And of course the grader who finds it will check with others for their opinion. KCOComics 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Readcomix Posted January 18 Share Posted January 18 I’m surprised a black light isn’t used. Maybe it’s a time issue, constantly turning lights on and off in a shared work area. Maybe impractical for what amounts to a commercial setting The Lions Den and KCOComics 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Readcomix Posted January 18 Share Posted January 18 On 1/18/2024 at 8:50 AM, dbcn said: Presumably, performing restoration on a book costs money, yes? I just got the notification that my ASM 194 book that I sent in for the Marv Wolfman signing a while back shipped, and came back as a C-1 - tbh, it wasn't a huge investment, I was more interested in getting the 1st appearance book signed by one of the creators than 'investment' - the grade is a bit lower than I'd hoped, and very happy to have grader notes. Which is where my question comes in - the C-1 designation says 'small amount of color touch on cover' - the grader notes say 'small amount of color touch on right center back cover' - but.... the back cover is an advertisement; why on earth would someone look at that book and say 'y'know what - that back advertisement doesn't look quite right, I'm going to pay to have someone touch it up' I would understand if there was damage to the front cover that needed touching up - that seems logical - the book would present better and look nicer overall, but I have zero idea why anyone would color touch the back cover. Also if anyone can point out where the color touch is, I'd appreciate it - I have no idea what to even look for. https://www.cgccomics.com/certlookup/4297039001/ Thoughts? I can’t tell from the picture but the book has a wrap that goes around to the back a bit. Maybe they see something in that right edge on the back? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lightning55 Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 On 1/18/2024 at 5:30 PM, Readcomix said: I can’t tell from the picture but the book has a wrap that goes around to the back a bit. Maybe they see something in that right edge on the back? The notes said where it was, in the text you quoted: "the grader notes say 'small amount of color touch on right center back cover" Readcomix 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Readcomix Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 On 1/18/2024 at 7:14 PM, Lightning55 said: The notes said where it was, in the text you quoted: "the grader notes say 'small amount of color touch on right center back cover" They could mean the middle of that edge, by that language. I have seen that construction with horizontal tears from an edge in — “right center cover” etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lightning55 Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 On 1/18/2024 at 7:19 PM, Readcomix said: They could mean the middle of that edge, by that language. I have seen that construction with horizontal tears from an edge in — “right center cover” etc. Could be. You would think, though, that they would say "center of back spine". Somebody should help us all out and standardize the descriptive order for cover locations. Like front or back first, top or bottom next, finishing with left, center or right. Then we could all be on the same "page". Maybe there's already a rule in place, and I'm the last to know. Readcomix 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Readcomix Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 On 1/18/2024 at 7:34 PM, Lightning55 said: Could be. You would think, though, that they would say "center of back spine". Somebody should help us all out and standardize the descriptive order for cover locations. Like front or back first, top or bottom next, finishing with left, center or right. Then we could all be on the same "page". Maybe there's already a rule in place, and I'm the last to know. Move over, I’m in the same boat. Lightning55 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougC Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 "Restoration" can also include accidental marks. I used to have a Hulk #5 with a very old green felt pen mark (on the white area) CGC deemed as being restored, I argued with them for months to no avail. I have seen the same with other random colors in a spot that is obviously not resto and just a scribble, accidental mark, or ink bleed transfer. It is CGC's decision what to call resto and they do a great job at seeing almost everything, but I disagree with their judgement sometimes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Lions Den Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 On 1/18/2024 at 8:50 AM, dbcn said: Presumably, performing restoration on a book costs money, yes? I just got the notification that my ASM 194 book that I sent in for the Marv Wolfman signing a while back shipped, and came back as a C-1 - tbh, it wasn't a huge investment, I was more interested in getting the 1st appearance book signed by one of the creators than 'investment' - the grade is a bit lower than I'd hoped, and very happy to have grader notes. Which is where my question comes in - the C-1 designation says 'small amount of color touch on cover' - the grader notes say 'small amount of color touch on right center back cover' - but.... the back cover is an advertisement; why on earth would someone look at that book and say 'y'know what - that back advertisement doesn't look quite right, I'm going to pay to have someone touch it up' I would understand if there was damage to the front cover that needed touching up - that seems logical - the book would present better and look nicer overall, but I have zero idea why anyone would color touch the back cover. Also if anyone can point out where the color touch is, I'd appreciate it - I have no idea what to even look for. https://www.cgccomics.com/certlookup/4297039001/ Thoughts? Since the book has a bit of a mis-wrap, the black border line along the spine is wrapped over to the back cover, and it's very common to see color touch on that black border. Since notes these days are generally selected from a menu, it's often tough to pinpoint the exact location the graders are referring to, but that black line would be my first choice... Lightning55 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbcn Posted January 19 Author Share Posted January 19 On 1/19/2024 at 9:34 AM, The Lions Den said: Since the book has a bit of a mis-wrap, the black border line along the spine is wrapped over to the back cover, and it's very common to see color touch on that black border. Thx @The Lions Den - still seems like an odd choice to me - I could understand doing restoration on the cover to make the book present better, but color touching the spine of a book that is not in great condition to begin with seems weird. Maybe I just got somebody's book they were practicing restoration on? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yorick Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 Could be that the book was set down on an unclean table and picked up something... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Lions Den Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 On 1/19/2024 at 9:41 AM, dbcn said: Thx @The Lions Den - still seems like an odd choice to me - I could understand doing restoration on the cover to make the book present better, but color touching the spine of a book that is not in great condition to begin with seems weird. This is actually one of the most common locations for color touch... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lightning55 Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 On 1/19/2024 at 9:41 AM, dbcn said: Thx @The Lions Den - still seems like an odd choice to me - I could understand doing restoration on the cover to make the book present better, but color touching the spine of a book that is not in great condition to begin with seems weird. Maybe I just got somebody's book they were practicing restoration on? A 7.0 is still a quality grade. You will never know what was in the amateur restorer's head. Probably the most basic of motivations - "This could look a lot better if that white spot wasn't there. Where's my pen?" The Lions Den 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
