Crushalot Posted February 2 Author Share Posted February 2 I am glad it got people talking at least =) ADAMANTIUM and Kripsys99 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewWorldOrder Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 On 1/26/2024 at 2:50 PM, bc said: Signed books are a binary - the book is either signed or its not. Page quality is entirely subjective. -bc No, that grader or collector just made mistake in their evaluation. Grading generally is not subjective. Not saying anyone in particular, but usually people who cant grade say "grading is subjective." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewWorldOrder Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 (edited) All I know is White Pages should always get more points for the same grade than all lower page quality destinations such as OWW or CR-OW. The market pays you more so why shouldn't the FREE registry. It's not rocket science to understand why. If you feel your book was given the wrong page destination or grade you can always resubmit or ask for a review, don't let it ruin your life. Edited February 2 by NewWorldOrder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAR1979 Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 (edited) On 2/1/2024 at 10:22 AM, Kripsys99 said: I applaud you for bringing forward a novel idea for a potential improvement of the registry, unfortunately this one just isn't a winner. And at this point, I feel like you're whistling in the wind a bit here. Seldom have I seen an idea posted on the boards that received not a single vote of support from any other boardies. But you seem firmly entrenched in your opinion (which is fair enough). I just hope majority rules in this case, because I believe the majority are right in this instance, for all of the reasons stated by all of the other posters above. and with that excellent post by @Kripsys99, 'tis time to... Edited February 2 by MAR1979 workingdog 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newshane Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 On 1/24/2024 at 9:48 AM, jstam said: @Crushalot This is an interesting proposition. I'm going to leave this thread open to see what others think. Nope. I can't even imagine trying to reset the registry to include points for page quality. MAR1979 and workingdog 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newshane Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 (edited) On 2/2/2024 at 10:05 AM, NewWorldOrder said: No, that grader or collector just made mistake in their evaluation. Grading generally is not subjective. Not saying anyone in particular, but usually people who cant grade say "grading is subjective." I would say visually matching the tone of a page to that of a printed standard is pretty darn subjective. Maybe I'm missing something? Is there a scientific tool available to assist? What, exactly, is the "black or white" objective process that should be used to determine page quality? If a grader believes that the tone of the paper is identical to the standard, then that is an OPINION, is it not? How can we prove them right or wrong? I also find your use of the word "generally" quite interesting. You said, "Grading generally is not subjective." Well, is it subjective or not? What did you mean by "generally?" Edited February 5 by newshane MAR1979 and workingdog 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimhouston1 Posted February 7 Share Posted February 7 I did a video blog where I compared the exact same issue number graded Golden Age Batman comics and page quality did not affect the points awarded. I sell mid grade White Page books to get higher graded books that do not have White Pages into my collection and the registry. I just purchased a Batman 54 graded 6.5 with Off White pages. I now have an undercopy of Batman 54 graded 5.0 with White Pages. If I got more points in the Registry set for White Pages I would not upgrade. When I tried to crack press and regrade some comics, page quality went down from White Pages so I know page quality is at the discretion of the grader. I will say there are quite a few collectors I deal with who prefer White Pages. aardvark88 and MAR1979 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yorick Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 I have no dog in this fight, but a white page book has been preserved better than it's off-white or brittle counterpart. Isn't that what the registry comes down to? A competition for the best copies? You'll just have to disregard that a 9.6 can look like a 10 and a 9.8 can look like a 9.4. bc and Crushalot 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewWorldOrder Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 (edited) On 2/5/2024 at 3:14 PM, newshane said: I would say visually matching the tone of a page to that of a printed standard is pretty darn subjective. Maybe I'm missing something? Is there a scientific tool available to assist? What, exactly, is the "black or white" objective process that should be used to determine page quality? If a grader believes that the tone of the paper is identical to the standard, then that is an OPINION, is it not? How can we prove them right or wrong? I also find your use of the word "generally" quite interesting. You said, "Grading generally is not subjective." Well, is it subjective or not? What did you mean by "generally?" Professional grading generally means you should be in the ballpark or strike zone as Steve Borock has said many times over the years and I think his logic is spot on. If you grade a book 6.0 and its comes back 6.0/6.5 that is where the slight subjectivity comes into play. Now if you graded a book NM+ (9.6) and it comes back NM- (9.2) that is not subjective. You missed something more than likely. If you want to prove them wrong you can submit the book for review or open up your own grading company and set the new standard. Also just because the grader/dealer/or seller was wrong on that certain day doesnt mean the standards changed. They just had a bad day at the office possibly. Edited February 19 by NewWorldOrder greggy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewWorldOrder Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 Greggy we talked about this @greggy Confused is not the Like button Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greggy Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 Sorry MAR1979 and NewWorldOrder 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newshane Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 On 2/19/2024 at 4:21 PM, NewWorldOrder said: Professional grading generally means you should be in the ballpark or strike zone as Steve Borock has said many times over the years and I think his logic is spot on. If you grade a book 6.0 and its comes back 6.0/6.5 that is where the slight subjectivity comes into play. Now if you graded a book NM+ (9.6) and it comes back NM- (9.2) that is not subjective. You missed something more than likely. If you want to prove them wrong you can submit the book for review or open up your own grading company and set the new standard. Also just because the grader/dealer/or seller was wrong on that certain day doesnt mean the standards changed. They just had a bad day at the office possibly. Great job in answering exactly 0% of my questions. workingdog 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewWorldOrder Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 On 2/19/2024 at 3:45 PM, newshane said: Great job in answering exactly 0% of my questions. I am assuming then you did a bad job in not reading my post correctly. I literally told you exactly the basic difference between subjective and objective grading. Instead of being passive aggressive why don't you ask me what you disagree with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator CGC Mike Posted February 20 Administrator Share Posted February 20 I think it is best that you both agree to disagree and move on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThothAmon Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 On 2/5/2024 at 6:14 PM, newshane said: Is there a scientific tool available to assist? MAR1979, bc and workingdog 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sauce Dog Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 (edited) I am all for any additional changes that can bring new paths to being competitive, and in the case of page quality I don't think it need be something as detailed as signature series points, rather just focus on the edge cases: +1 point to a book if it has WHITE PAGES, -1 point to a book if it as BRITTLE PAGES. That's it - no need for more rows for each grade/point values in between for each books as it is unified across every book regardless of grade. Everything else in between neither gains nor looses a point. This means two people competing for a common bronze set, where 9.8s are easy enough to find, can edge out the competition if they focus on finding only the best white pages. Likewise those who want to fill a golden age run with low grade white pagers might find they can compete against those who have the same books in mid grade books but with brittle pages. Edited February 23 by Sauce Dog MAR1979 and Crushalot 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmovies Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 not sure... manufacturers in the 40s had a lot of trouble keeping pages nice and pristine. had a buddy who was around back then and he said they use to spill cherry cola on the machines some times to grease it up if it was in a jam. didnt even bother cleaning because the darkened pages made your eyes less sore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
