Ditko Spiderman Pin-up on Comiclink 3 3

[buttock]

On 2/23/2024 at 6:08 PM, The Voord said:

For those struggling to compare . . . looks like they re-jigged Spidey's limbs, otherwise quite close.

Personally, I'd class the Spidey pin-up as published (in altered format).

 

One thing supporting this is that his armpit webbing in the published version extends to his forearm.  That's not how it was intended to be, so if you bent the arm down after the original was drawn, it would end up there.  

[grapeape]

On 2/27/2024 at 2:19 AM, The Voord said:

Hey, Mike

My question was a rhetorical one, asked for effect, and aimed at those wondering if a CCA stamp was on the back of the artwork.  That is, if Lee decided (for whatever reason) not to publish the art in any of his books, why would it ever have been submitted to the CCA for censorship scrutiny/publication green-light?

I get that you're curious if anything was on the back of the art (it's not uncommon to find thumbnail sketches and the like, or maybe notes).  That's a different kind of interest.

Normally I'm sharper minded. Apologies my friend.

[delekkerste]

On 2/27/2024 at 9:04 AM, F For Fake said:

Hater alert: What on god's green earth is going on with the anatomy over all? That intersection of thigh and waist is a trainwreck. It's like one big fused glob of muscle.  Of course, I'm not in the buyer pool for something like this anyway, so it doesn't matter what I think.

I've heard it referred to as "Porno Thigh".  

Once seen, it cannot be unseen.  

[F For Fake]

On 2/27/2024 at 4:01 PM, delekkerste said:

I've heard it referred to as "Porno Thigh".  

Once seen, it cannot be unseen.  

Ok, well NOW I'm into it!

[Silver Surfer]

On 2/18/2024 at 11:50 AM, grapeape said:

Being unpublished I think will temper the bidding. It's one of the best Spidey pinups by the late great Ditko though.

My guess is $395,000. I'll be surprised if it goes way over, but not surprised if it goes lower.

if it were a published pinup from the era of 1-37 I'd have it at $673,012.49.

So here's a thought. If grapeape wins this, is there a way to make this available to Marvel so it could be published in Amazing Spider-Man?

How about a tribute issue ASM #37 B with this pinup used on either cover or title splash, or center of comic! A 56 year old boy can dream:-)

 

I have no clue as to its value but if it fetches $200K I would be shocked. I only say this because it's an unpublished piece and I figured that for that price you could fetch an iconic published piece. 

[grapeape]

On 2/27/2024 at 8:45 PM, Silver Surfer said:

I have no clue as to its value but if it fetches $200K I would be shocked. I only say this because it's an unpublished piece and I figured that for that price you could fetch an iconic published piece. 

It's going to be interesting to watch. In most cases I would agree that an "iconic" published page is king. In this case though we have an iconic non published piece by a comic art legend, drawing the most iconic hero in comic history (with no disrespect to Supes and Batman).

The quality, large drawn Spidey by Ditko....... published or not it's like finding an unbelievable treasure. The pin up I think matches or surpasses any page Ditko ever drew, and he displayed Amazing quality in his work in 1-37 and AF15.

[pemart1966]

On 2/28/2024 at 12:27 AM, grapeape said:

It's going to be interesting to watch. In most cases I would agree that an "iconic" published page is king. In this case though we have an iconic non published piece by a comic art legend, drawing the most iconic hero in comic history (with no disrespect to Supes and Batman).

The quality, large drawn Spidey by Ditko....... published or not it's like finding an unbelievable treasure. The pin up I think matches or surpasses any page Ditko ever drew, and he displayed Amazing quality in his work in 1-37 and AF15.

...and don't forget the quality work in Annuals 1 & 2 ...

[glendgold]

Do people remember these? In 1966, Marvel released some "life-sized" posters of their characters that were drawn by unknown hands - possibly Marie Severin? [EDIT: looking at them now, I wonder if Syd Shores drew them. Was he around then?] Each pose is based on an existing cover or splash (the Hulk is from TTA 67) by Kirby, Dikto, Everett, Colan (I think), etc. The ASM was always the wild card, as the source wasn't obvious. I wouldn't be surprised if Ditko's pin up was from 1966 also, given that the other images seem to date from around then. And it's very cool, very exciting, but I also think it shows signs (like where the concentric webbing ends) of Ditko being ready to book.  That doesn't make it any less desirable - just trying to date it. 

BTW, I've always wondered what is up with the cover to ASM Annual 2. A Ditko Doctor Strange/Spidey cover would have been like a five-alarm fire of coolness.

 

 

Edited February 28 by glendgold

[artdealer]

My personal opinion is that those Marvel posters were drawn by Everett. 

Look at the line work on those figures. Look at Hulk’s face. 
 

I’m sure Marvel told Everett to tone down his style and make it more generic looking, while copying the figures from particular books/issues. 

[PhilipB2k17]

On 2/17/2024 at 1:22 PM, glenbru said:

An actual vintage Ditko Spidey Pin Up that no one even knew existed.

I'm blown away! It's stunning!

And, of course, a big Stan Lee signature in the middle of the art. 

[PhilipB2k17]

On 2/28/2024 at 2:15 PM, artdealer said:

My personal opinion is that those Marvel posters were drawn by Everett. 

Look at the line work on those figures. Look at Hulk’s face. 
 

I’m sure Marvel told Everett to tone down his style and make it more generic looking, while copying the figures from particular books/issues. 

I rule out Everett because I don't think the Namor looks like Everett's Namor. I agree on the Marie Severin attribution. 

[Unca Ben]

On 2/23/2024 at 5:08 PM, The Voord said:

For those struggling to compare . . . looks like they re-jigged Spidey's limbs, otherwise quite close.

Personally, I'd class the Spidey pin-up as published (in altered format).

 

This. 

I think this pinup is the original drawing that ended up being the 6 foot poster.  Either Ditko himself reworked the drawing or it was done in production.  Ditko could have light boxed the original and made the adjustments, or a photostat could have been cut and pasted to achieve the final composition.

I submit that they are too similar to be coincidence.

If the pinup is rotated about 20-some degrees to the left and a vertical line bisects the figure we can make some observations on both compositions.  

Ignore the left leg and the right arm just for a moment.

The line bisects the face the same.  it brushed up against the tips of the legs of the chest spider-symbol the same.  it goes thru just left of the crotch the same.  The space between the line and the left thumb is the same.  the space between the line and the right foot is the same.  Think "negative space".  The two negative spaces created by the bisecting line in the lower half of the figure are exactly the same.  The webbing thru the face, torso, belt, left arm, right boot are exact.  Muscles in the chest left arm and right leg are the same.  The right underarm spotted black could have been whited out or ignored on the new light boxed drawing.

Once again, the compositions and details are just too similar to be coincidence so I submit this is the original drawing (or the "original" original drawing) for the famous 6 foot pinup.  If my observations prove to be correct and I were the seller, I'd really want this stuff to be mentioned.

Has anyone ever seen the drawing for the 6 foot pin up?  I'd be willing to bet that it is either: a cut and pasted Photostatted version of this pin-up, or a second drawing that was light boxed from the first.
 

Edited March 2 by Unca Ben

[Unca Ben]

oh, and i think  that the pin up is awesome among the best ditko spideys that i've seen.  i would give my left nut to own this.

[Unca Ben]

...even the left leg looks to be the exact same drawing just re-positioned. same as the right forearm.

[The Voord]

On 3/2/2024 at 9:36 AM, Unca Ben said:

oh, and i think  that the pin up is awesome among the best ditko spideys that i've seen.  i would give my left nut to own this.

Absolutely, and good to see someone else paying close attention to what should be oh-so-obvious!  Once you've done your homework and come to the realization that Ditko's original drawing served as the basis (in altered format) for the single-figure poster and Marvel Super Heroes group shot . . . it's probably one of the most iconic images of Spidey ever seen. 

Published as originally illustrated, no.

Published in altered format, yes

Definitely of its era, how can anyone claim otherwise, lol!.

Oh, and I don't see this as being some kind of rejected (alternative) art for the ASM #3 pin-up that Mandel owns.  You just have to see the way Ditko inked Spidey's webbing in the early issues with thicker line-work in particular.. The webbing became more delicately-inked later on in the run.

Edited March 2 by The Voord

[grapeape]

On 3/2/2024 at 1:30 AM, Unca Ben said:

This. 

I think this pinup is the original drawing that ended up being the 6 foot poster.  Either Ditko himself reworked the drawing or it was done in production.  Ditko could have light boxed the original and made the adjustments, or a photostat could have been cut and pasted to achieve the final composition.

I submit that they are too similar to be coincidence.

If the pinup is rotated about 20-some degrees to the left and a vertical line bisects the figure we can make some observations on both compositions.  

Ignore the left leg and the right arm just for a moment.

The line bisects the face the same.  it brushed up against the tips of the legs of the chest spider-symbol the same.  it goes thru just left of the crotch the same.  The space between the line and the left thumb is the same.  the space between the line and the right foot is the same.  Think "negative space".  The two negative spaces created by the bisecting line in the lower half of the figure are exactly the same.  The webbing thru the face, torso, belt, left arm, right boot are exact.  Muscles in the chest left arm and right leg are the same.  The right underarm spotted black could have been whited out or ignored on the new light boxed drawing.

Once again, the compositions and details are just too similar to be coincidence so I submit this is the original drawing (or the "original" original drawing) for the famous 6 foot pinup.  If my observations prove to be correct and I were the seller, I'd really want this stuff to be mentioned.

Has anyone ever seen the drawing for the 6 foot pin up?  I'd be willing to bet that it is either: a cut and pasted Photostatted version of this pin-up, or a second drawing that was light boxed from the first.
 

Excellent case made here. Your logic is sound. This is a special piece no doubt. My brother has the 6ft poster and I can see it. If only Stan were around to confirm it. If I could afford the piece at auction I would give my....ahhhh, Uncle Ben, you're a brave man then ole grapeape.

[pemart1966]

On 3/2/2024 at 4:36 AM, Unca Ben said:

oh, and i think  that the pin up is awesome among the best ditko spideys that i've seen.  i would give my left nut to own this.

Is this an example of "trading up"?    

[Unca Ben]

On 3/2/2024 at 2:40 AM, The Voord said:

Absolutely, and good to see someone else paying close attention to what should be oh-so-obvious!  Once you've done your homework and come to the realization that Ditko's original drawing served as the basis (in altered format) for the single-figure poster and Marvel Super Heroes group shot . . . it's probably one of the most iconic images of Spidey ever seen. 

Published as originally illustrated, no.

Published in altered format, yes

Definitely of its era, how can anyone claim otherwise, lol!.

Oh, and I don't see this as being some kind of rejected (alternative) art for the ASM #3 pin-up that Mandel owns.  You just have to see the way Ditko inked Spidey's webbing in the early issues with thicker line-work in particular.. The webbing became more delicately-inked later on in the run.

Yeah. His drawing style on Spider-Man was much different from ish 3 to issue 28 or 30 ( or thereabouts when this poster was first mentioned as a "mystery mailing tube" on the Bullpen Bulletins page).

[Unca Ben]

On 3/2/2024 at 4:18 AM, grapeape said:

Excellent case made here. Your logic is sound. This is a special piece no doubt. My brother has the 6ft poster and I can see it. If only Stan were around to confirm it. If I could afford the piece at auction I would give my....ahhhh, Uncle Ben, you're a brave man then ole grapeape.

I'm jealous of your brother.  

I got this poster in third grade and it resided on my bedroom wall until I moved out and then it graced my first couple bachelor pads until it found its way - creased and somewhat torn - rolled up in my closet.  But I stared at his thing in admiration every day for over 15 years so it was easy for me to recognize the pin up as the Spidey poster as soon as I saw it in this thread. 
I recall bringing this poster to show and tell in 3rd grade.

It is truly iconic of the innovations by Marvel Comics at the time. 

In 1965, who would have thought of a (relatively) slightly-known but ever growing-in-popularity Super Hero 6-foot wall poster?  And it's unique in its own way - the thick paper stock and almost chalky thick inks that brought a special "smell" to the poster when it was new- way different than other posters.  If you've been around one in person you know what I mean.

It truly cemented my interest in Marvel Comics - I had been regularly reading them for 5-6 months as best I could (no store nearby that I could patronize on my own - I had to buy my comics when accompanying my parents shopping). 
But to be introduced to Marvel during those months with Spidey and JJJ's robot and Mysterio and the Crime Master and the Green Goblin, and FF fighting the evil FF with the Thing's betrayal and Reed and Sue's Wedding and the intro of the Inhumans, while the X-Men were fighting the Juggernaut for the first time then the Sentinels, and Thor up against the Destroyer and then Absorbing Man, and The Avengers and the Swordsman, and Iron Man vs Titanium Man, and Capt. America and the Red Skull, and the Sub-Mariner on his quest, and S.H.I.E.L.D. …

Man, what a time to really enter comics.
And this Spidey poster symbolizes that for me.  So I'm a bit biased.  (which means I should fit in rather well around here). 

Edited March 3 by Unca Ben

[grapeape]

On 3/3/2024 at 6:36 AM, Unca Ben said:

I'm jealous of your brother.  

I got this poster in third grade and it resided on my bedroom wall until I moved out and then it graced my first couple bachelor pads until it found its way - creased and somewhat torn - rolled up in my closet.  But I stared at his thing in admiration every day for over 15 years so it was easy for me to recognize the pin up as the Spidey poster as soon as I saw it in this thread. 
I recall bringing this poster to show and tell in 3rd grade.

It is truly iconic of the innovations by Marvel Comics at the time. 

In 1965, who would have thought of a (relatively) slightly-known but ever growing-in-popularity Super Hero 6-foot wall poster?  And it's unique in its own way - the thick paper stock and almost chalky thick inks that brought a special "smell" to the poster when it was new- way different than other posters.  If you've been around one in person you know what I mean.

It truly cemented my interest in Marvel Comics - I had been regularly reading them for 5-6 months as best I could (no store nearby that I could patronize on my own - I had to buy my comics when accompanying my parents shopping). 
But to be introduced to Marvel during those months with Spidey and JJJ's robot and Mysterio and the Crime Master and the Green Goblin, and FF fighting the evil FF with the Thing's betrayal and Reed and Sue's Wedding and the intro of the Inhumans, while the X-Men were fighting the Juggernaut for the first time then the Sentinels, and Thor up against the Destroyer and then Absorbing Man, and The Avengers and the Swordsman, and Iron Man vs Titanium Man, and Capt. America and the Red Skull, and the Sub-Mariner on his quest, and S.H.I.E.L.D. …

Man, what a time to really enter comics.
And this Spidey poster symbolizes that for me.  So I'm a bit biased.  (which means I should fit in rather well around here). 

My brother is a supreme collector of all things Spider-Man. He has the original web shooters, you name it he's got it.

There was a big hole however. The 6ft poster, which he looked for year after year with no luck. I made it my personal, private mission to fill that hole.

There was a convention in Los Angeles, about 4-5 years ago. I met a friend there and took my wife along. The week before I took my time showing my wife what the poster looked like and the size. She goes antiquing here and there and you never know.

At the convention, my wife was taking a breather when my pal and I met up with her. We were going to have lunch, but my wife asked me, "can you watch our stuff while I take a look around for 5 minutes."

Ten minutes later she comes back. 
"You need to come with me. I think I found something." I followed her down an aisle, and she pointed to a booth. Behind the seller I could see the colors, so familiar, but was it the one? I asked to see it fully and once he started unrolling it I knew the search was over. Those two images I sent a few clicks back in this thread are of the actual poster my wife found.

What did he want for it? $1500

What was the wiggle room? Okay, $1300 cash money. Great except I was only carrying $500. I'd come to sell more than buy. I would have to leave the convention, go to a bank and get the money.

The guy was cool though, as he was selling it on consignment. He kept looking at me and he said, "you bought something from me in 98. I remember your face." That blew me away.

He asked, "did you bring a check?"

I did. The last hurdle, "the seller is here, let me call him over."

The consignee showed up ten minutes later. Would he accept a check? Yes, because this guy remembered me from 20 freaking years ago.

"I'll vouch for him. It's a good check."

I wrote a check for $1300 and took the poster home. My brother had given me discretion many years ago to act on his behalf. I wanted to find a way to make it free for my bro but I couldn't quite get there. I sold $800 worth of art to recoup some of what I paid. A week later I drove many, many miles with my wife to surprise my brother. Boy was he excited and surprised. I have a video of the moment he unfurled it with his girlfriend on the living room carpet. The joy was electric. We celebrated with a homemade spaghetti dinner with a fantastic gravy (nowhere near the poster mind you).

My brother only had to pay me $500. He did the right thing and invested in a beautiful fitted frame of high archival quality. I can't find a pic of that at the moment.

Speaking to my brother, yesterday I was telling him about your excellent CSI like breakdown of the poster and the unpublished Ditko giveaway. The talk turned to the poster specifically ,and my brother, the fanatic, a guy who once watched Stan Lee drink coffee for an hour, waited for him to leave, paid a busboy $5 to take the cup, and have Stan Lee sign it. Stan said, " I think you might be nuts" haha. Anyway, my brother says the 6ft Spidey poster is the quintessential holy grail for serious Spidey collectors, as far as collectibles are concerned.