Comic Art Live May 2024 3 3

[Nexus]

On 5/16/2024 at 6:28 AM, Michael Browning said:

The Tradd Moore art analogy, right?

Maybe? Also, maybe not?

Every piece I've ever sold for Tradd is archived in CAF's Market Data. Taking a quick look, I've sold 500+ pieces for him over the years. Is the belief then that every single one of those buyers "overpaid" vis a vis John E.'s formula?

Because what's also archived in CAF's Market Data is the price each piece was sold for. I would wager that every single one of those Tradd pieces would have a buyer right now for, at a minimum, that original price. Hell, I'd buy a bunch of it back myself at this point. If anything, with the benefit of hindsight, buyers underpaid.

Anyway, maybe not the best example to make your case.

Edited May 17 by Nexus

[pestonaccio]

I had six pieces in my booth and I sold them all after the CAL. There was some negotiation and some trade, but at the end I was able to sell everything; the range was 1,5k-39k.

maybe my prices were too high, but if you are flexible and reasonable, you can work with people.

i haven’t sold anything at loss this time, but I don’t see why that can’t ever happen. It’s like amortization: the loss you are bearing is the price paid to enjoy the art for all those years. Like a rent. 

[John E.]

On 5/17/2024 at 1:25 AM, Nexus said:

Maybe? Also, maybe not?

Every piece I've ever sold for Tradd is archived in CAF's Market Data. Taking a quick look, I've sold 500+ pieces for him over the years. Is the belief then that every single one of those buyers "overpaid" vis a vis John E.'s formula?

Because what's also archived in CAF's Market Data is the price each piece was sold for. I would wager that every single one of those Tradd pieces would have a buyer right now for, at a minimum, that original price. Hell, I'd buy a bunch of it back myself at this point. If anything, with the benefit of hindsight, buyers underpaid.

Anyway, maybe not the best example to make your case.

That be true; my “formula” says no comps are available whereas there’s plenty of comps for Tradd Moore. Each buyer has no excuse to not make an educated purchase.  

The formula, dear everybody, of course is more satire, than scientific (duh). It’s based on a private offering someone approached me with. I went from committing to one piece, then two, then three, with the last being an unnecessary and overpaid purchase. The exuberance and the fomo got the better of me. 
 

I also want to say that overpaying isn’t always black and white. Even in the absence of comps, the price might feel fmv, but we don’t always (perhaps never) take into account a flood in the market. When prices start dropping, are we guilty of overpaying?

[Rick2you2]

On 5/17/2024 at 7:12 PM, John E. said:

That be true; my “formula” says no comps are available whereas there’s plenty of comps for Tradd Moore. Each buyer has no excuse to not make an educated purchase.  

The formula, dear everybody, of course is more satire, than scientific (duh). It’s based on a private offering someone approached me with. I went from committing to one piece, then two, then three, with the last being an unnecessary and overpaid purchase. The exuberance and the fomo got the better of me. 
 

I also want to say that overpaying isn’t always black and white. Even in the absence of comps, the price might feel fmv, but we don’t always (perhaps never) take into account a flood in the market. When prices start dropping, are we guilty of overpaying?

There are no “price drops”. Only delayed recovery.

[rsonenthal]

Really?  How's that stash of "Pogo" going for you?

[Michael Browning]

On 5/17/2024 at 2:25 AM, Nexus said:

Maybe? Also, maybe not?

Every piece I've ever sold for Tradd is archived in CAF's Market Data. Taking a quick look, I've sold 500+ pieces for him over the years. Is the belief then that every single one of those buyers "overpaid" vis a vis John E.'s formula?

Because what's also archived in CAF's Market Data is the price each piece was sold for. I would wager that every single one of those Tradd pieces would have a buyer right now for, at a minimum, that original price. Hell, I'd buy a bunch of it back myself at this point. If anything, with the benefit of hindsight, buyers underpaid.

Anyway, maybe not the best example to make your case.

I cannot find a single example of Tradd Moore art reselling for the huge amounts people have said they resell for. None. I saw a lot of Tradd Moore art UNsold at CA Live and I've seen a lot sit unsold online. HA has sold nine pieces of Moore art with the Vote Loki #4 cover selling the highest at $5,040. I watched that cover sell and it just didn't hit the highs that it should have hit if his art is selling SO high. A rising tide raises all boats, right? The Vote Loki #4 cover is a great example of his work, but it sure finished at a very low price. That's lower than the prices for individual pages from his Dr. Strange miniseries that are still available on your site. Nowhere near the $30,000 and $40,000 people SAY that Tradd Moore art resells for. I just don't believe it. Having said all that: I admit that you have done a fantastic job selling his artwork. If I was a new artist who had a popular style, I'd sure want you as my rep/agent. And his art is beautiful. I liked his art when I first read the new Ghost Rider that he drew and it was just so wildly different than anything else being published at the time. But, do I believe that a page of Tradd Moore art is REselling at McFarlane levels? No way. You can't prove to me that any of those pages resell even at Todd McFarlane All-Star Squadron art prices. I've also seen too much of it sit unsold or be offered for sale on social media by people who are needing quick cash and most of those pages don't even get much interest, which tells me that not every buyer of his art reaps a huge ROI when they resell.

[Dr. Balls]

On 5/18/2024 at 7:20 AM, Michael Browning said:

I cannot find a single example of Tradd Moore art reselling for the huge amounts people have said they resell for.

I'm a novice in this arena, but I spent about 45 minutes banging away on the internets trying to find some information as well - and I came to the same conclusion.

Tradd Moore's art is cool. Are people stepping on handicapped grandmothers to buy it? It doesn't seem like it, but $25k modern pages are not my thing, so my perspective is limited. I do know that big art purchases are a tax deduction for some people who use it as part of their business endeavor, and that capital gains on reselling the art are at a punishing 28% - which are both great reasons to buy and hold. Maybe this is where they ended up.

[JC25427N]

[Michael Browning]

On 5/18/2024 at 11:11 AM, Dr. Balls said:

I'm a novice in this arena, but I spent about 45 minutes banging away on the internets trying to find some information as well - and I came to the same conclusion.

Tradd Moore's art is cool. Are people stepping on handicapped grandmothers to buy it? It doesn't seem like it, but $25k modern pages are not my thing, so my perspective is limited. I do know that big art purchases are a tax deduction for some people who use it as part of their business endeavor, and that capital gains on reselling the art are at a punishing 28% - which are both great reasons to buy and hold. Maybe this is where they ended up.

Nah, every time I post something like my above comments, the Legion of Tradd followers always come out to tell me how they have all sold their pieces for high five figures to low six figures and they're all collectors I have never heard of in my time in the hobby. They're usually all newbie collectors who just got into buying art because they were so moved by Silver Surfer Black that they mortgaged their homes to buy just one, single piece and then resold it to buy a mansion in the Hollywood hills and they're living a life of rich retirement. I'm exaggerating quite a bit, but that's generally how this goes for me.

[RICKYBOBBY]

On 5/18/2024 at 7:20 AM, Michael Browning said:

I cannot find a single example of Tradd Moore art reselling for the huge amounts people have said they resell for. None. I saw a lot of Tradd Moore art UNsold at CA Live and I've seen a lot sit unsold online. HA has sold nine pieces of Moore art with the Vote Loki #4 cover selling the highest at $5,040. I watched that cover sell and it just didn't hit the highs that it should have hit if his art is selling SO high. A rising tide raises all boats, right? The Vote Loki #4 cover is a great example of his work, but it sure finished at a very low price. That's lower than the prices for individual pages from his Dr. Strange miniseries that are still available on your site. Nowhere near the $30,000 and $40,000 people SAY that Tradd Moore art resells for. I just don't believe it. Having said all that: I admit that you have done a fantastic job selling his artwork. If I was a new artist who had a popular style, I'd sure want you as my rep/agent. And his art is beautiful. I liked his art when I first read the new Ghost Rider that he drew and it was just so wildly different than anything else being published at the time. But, do I believe that a page of Tradd Moore art is REselling at McFarlane levels? No way. You can't prove to me that any of those pages resell even at Todd McFarlane All-Star Squadron art prices. I've also seen too much of it sit unsold or be offered for sale on social media by people who are needing quick cash and most of those pages don't even get much interest, which tells me that not every buyer of his art reaps a huge ROI when they resell.

Here is one example. Not on comicarttrackker any more but comicconnect sold this privately.

66k

In addition to this, not sure if anyone noticed but a Dr Strange page from issue one that was marked at 17.5 k was sold by Sunday at CAF live. 

 

 

Edited May 18 by RICKYBOBBY

[Michael Browning]

On 5/18/2024 at 11:46 AM, RICKYBOBBY said:

Here is one example. Not on comicarttrackker any more but comicconnect sold this privately.

66k

In addition to this, not sure if anyone noticed but a Dr Strange page from issue one that was marked at 17.5 k was sold by Sunday at CAF live. 

 

 

Again, that's NOT proof. A listing doesn't prove a sale. Sorry, but you'll have to try harder.

@Dr. Balls I told you this would happen ...  

[Dr. Balls]

On 5/18/2024 at 9:18 AM, Michael Browning said:

They're usually all newbie collectors who just got into buying art because they were so moved by Silver Surfer Black that they mortgaged their homes to buy just one, single piece and then resold it to buy a mansion in the Hollywood hills and they're living a life of rich retirement.

Tradd Moore collectors:

Jack Kirby collectors:

90's Art Collectors:

[Michael Browning]

On 5/18/2024 at 11:59 AM, Dr. Balls said:

Tradd Moore collectors:

Jack Kirby collectors:

90's Art Collectors:

So accurate.

[RICKYBOBBY]

On 5/18/2024 at 9:57 AM, Michael Browning said:

Again, that's NOT proof. A listing doesn't prove a sale. Sorry, but you'll have to try harder.

@Dr. Balls I told you this would happen ...  

 not sure that that means but I could care less about his art. 
What’s proof for you? Only heritage listings ?

[Michael Browning]

On 5/18/2024 at 12:02 PM, RICKYBOBBY said:

 not sure that that means but I could care less about his art. 
What’s proof for you? Only heritage listings ?

So, you COULD care less or could NOT care less. Because, it seems to me, you entering this argument with no solid sales data/proof means you care a lot.

To answer your question: Watching the last couple of years on CAF, Heritage, other auction houses and on social media. Sorry, but I've been at this awhile, which caused me to KNOW FOR A FACT that the Legion of Felix Followers couldn't help themselves and would have to jump into this with listings of unsold art from around the globe to "prove" that people are getting rich off that art. Tulipmania, indeed.

There are a couple more who usually jump in, too, and I'm sure I won't have to wait long for them to enter the fray. I'm shocked that the private messages haven't started flooding in.

[Dr. Balls]

On 5/18/2024 at 10:02 AM, RICKYBOBBY said:

 not sure that that means but I could care less about his art. 
What’s proof for you? Only heritage listings ?

Here's a better screen capture of the ComicConnect listing in English. It was also a cover:

[Michael Browning]

On 5/18/2024 at 12:13 PM, Dr. Balls said:

Here's a better screen capture of the ComicConnect listing in English. It was also a cover:

There we go! Thank you. The Legion always rush into this fight. Okay, so there's that one. But, if I'm not mistaken, I don't think that one sold for a profit, but I'll let @Nexus correct me on that because he would know how much that initially sold for from his site. If it did, I will admit defeat and stand corrected.

[RICKYBOBBY]

On 5/18/2024 at 10:12 AM, Michael Browning said:

So, you COULD care less or could NOT care less. Because, it seems to me, you entering this argument with no solid sales data/proof means you care a lot.

To answer your question: Watching the last couple of years on CAF, Heritage, other auction houses and on social media. Sorry, but I've been at this awhile, which caused me to KNOW FOR A FACT that the Legion of Felix Followers couldn't help themselves and would have to jump into this with listings of unsold art from around the globe to "prove" that people are getting rich off that art. Tulipmania, indeed.

There are a couple more who usually jump in, too, and I'm sure I won't have to wait long for them to enter the fray. I'm shocked that the private messages haven't started flooding in.

I couldn’t care less. All I am saying is I saw that comiconnect sale and to me that is a sale. May not be proof to you but not here to change your mind.

Edited May 18 by RICKYBOBBY

[Dr. Balls]

On 5/18/2024 at 10:12 AM, Michael Browning said:

Tulipmania, indeed.

I, for one, enjoy this reference.

I still don't understand the valuation of Tradd Moore's pieces at this level - but I also don't understand why people watch The Kardashians, so I'll just shrug my shoulders at this point.

[RICKYBOBBY]

On 5/18/2024 at 10:16 AM, Michael Browning said:

There we go! Thank you. The Legion always rush into this fight. Okay, so there's that one. But, if I'm not mistaken, I don't think that one sold for a profit, but I'll let @Nexus correct me on that because he would know how much that initially sold for from his site. If it did, I will admit defeat and stand corrected.

Yup. Not sure if it sold for a profit.