Looking for appraisal 1 1

[Castle83]

I have a first issue ghost rider 1967 signed by Stan Lee and Dick Ayers CGC and authorized with a grade 7. I am trying to find what its going for and can't find a price anywhere online. Can anyone help?

[shadroch]

If it is in a yellow-labeled slab, I'd estimate between $800 and $1000plus. Less if it is in a green-labeled slab.

[Castle83]

That low? Even with signatures? Where did you find the information?

[KCOComics]

Sales data is a little tough. 

There are no recent signature series sales in 7.0. The last one was in 2017 and only signed by Stan.  That went for $230.  

A blue label 7.0 sold for $550 this month. If it's CGC signature witnessed I could see $800-$900.  

If is the other guys and unwitnessed it's likely less.   

It's a very cool book! Always loved Ayers! 

[revat]

there's a service called GPA analysis where they track sales of cgc graded comics.  That is a paid service.  But it sounds like you're somewhat new to this, I wouldn't expect you to have that service.

But I will do a breakdown for you here of what I would do in your situation:

1.  It's pretty tough to find exactly a sale with the exact grade and the exact signatures, so we should probably start with finding a comparable CGC 7.0 pricing (with no sigs).

2.  I'd start with ebay.  Its public, its known worldwide, pretty easy to search.  Initially, I didn't see any cgc ss sold or for sale

3.  There's a CGC 6.5 copy on ebay right now for $580 BIN, which means it hasn't been sold.  The seller is mycomicshop.com, which also means they are selling it for 10% less on their extremely popular website.  For simplicity, that means its on sale at approximately $525 on mycomicshop and hasn't sold.  Of course I don't know how long its been for sale.  But lets be VERY optimistic and assume it will sell for $580 on ebay in a few days.  We can reasonably assume at this point, that is the MAXIMUM that it is worth

4.  Assuming the CGC 6.5 previously mentioned is worth $580, we should extrapolate the price of how much more a 7.0 would be worth.  Generally, we might assume the price would be $30-$70 more in this price range.  So let's max it out at $650 for an unsigned CGC 7.0.

5.  Now we want to add value for the signatures.  Dick Ayers is the creator of Ghost Rider and pretty rad overall, on the high side in this grade add maybe $150-$200.

6.  Stan Lee is obviously popular and an icon, but doesn't really have anything to do with Ghost Rider, but his sig does have value, but much less value on 1st appearances of characters he didn't create.  So add $100-$150.  In this case, the addition of the Stan Lee sig almost certainly doesn't add as much value as the signature originally cost, and depending on the placement and location, could actually hurt the image.  A true Ghost Rider fan probably doesn't want the Stan sig, and certainly doesn't want to pay too much extra for it.

7.  So this rough calculation gives an absolute maximum valuation of $1,000, but most likely less.

8.  I just looked on the mycomicshop website, and they actually have another CGC 6.5 (unsigned) on sale for $427, so the above calculations are probably even more optimistic that previously thought.

9.  But you could still get lucky with a big ghost rider fan and the selling point of the Dick Ayers.

[Castle83]

Thanks for all the info. I am not new to this though, I have 3 other books signed by Stan, and one other he had nothing to do with but it's a newer comic and it is going for about 650 and it is through dynamic forces. The reason I was asking about my ghost rider comic was because I could not find the book with either one of their signatures on it let alone both of them. So I figured for that reason alone it would be worth significantly more than my other ones. Stan Lee was the editor on the book, I know he didn't create the character. I am a ghost rider fan, he is my #2 favorite character. I wouldn't have got it signed by him if I thought it would depreciate the value, which is why I got it signed by both of them. Plus seeing that it can not find it with both sigs shouldn't that make it more valuable? I found a copy about a year ago, same grade, starting bid 1500, signed by just Roy Thomas.

[shadroch]

On 5/27/2024 at 11:11 AM, Castle83 said:

Thanks for all the info. I am not new to this though, I have 3 other books signed by Stan, and one other he had nothing to do with but it's a newer comic and it is going for about 650 and it is through dynamic forces. The reason I was asking about my ghost rider comic was because I could not find the book with either one of their signatures on it let alone both of them. So I figured for that reason alone it would be worth significantly more than my other ones. Stan Lee was the editor on the book, I know he didn't create the character. I am a ghost rider fan, he is my #2 favorite character. I wouldn't have got it signed by him if I thought it would depreciate the value, which is why I got it signed by both of them. Plus seeing that it can not find it with both sigs shouldn't that make it more valuable? I found a copy about a year ago, same grade, starting bid 1500, signed by just Roy Thomas.

Prices are down from last year.  You asked for an appraisal and have gotten several.  Dynamic Forces markets books at prices they decide. Most DF books sell on the secondary market at steep discounts from their original price.

[KCOComics]

On 5/27/2024 at 2:11 PM, Castle83 said:

Thanks for all the info. I am not new to this though, I have 3 other books signed by Stan, and one other he had nothing to do with but it's a newer comic and it is going for about 650 and it is through dynamic forces. The reason I was asking about my ghost rider comic was because I could not find the book with either one of their signatures on it let alone both of them. So I figured for that reason alone it would be worth significantly more than my other ones. Stan Lee was the editor on the book, I know he didn't create the character. I am a ghost rider fan, he is my #2 favorite character. I wouldn't have got it signed by him if I thought it would depreciate the value, which is why I got it signed by both of them. Plus seeing that it can not find it with both sigs shouldn't that make it more valuable? I found a copy about a year ago, same grade, starting bid 1500, signed by just Roy Thomas.

 Stan's signatures generally increase the value a bit, but he signed so many books it doesn't appreciate the way one would expect.

As for "Darlin" Dick Ayers, I'm not sure how much demand is out there, but personally I would be more excited to own an Ayers signature than Stan's.

There just aren't as many Ayer's signatures out there.  

[revat]

On 5/27/2024 at 11:11 AM, Castle83 said:

Thanks for all the info. I am not new to this though, I have 3 other books signed by Stan, and one other he had nothing to do with but it's a newer comic and it is going for about 650 and it is through dynamic forces. The reason I was asking about my ghost rider comic was because I could not find the book with either one of their signatures on it let alone both of them. So I figured for that reason alone it would be worth significantly more than my other ones. Stan Lee was the editor on the book, I know he didn't create the character. I am a ghost rider fan, he is my #2 favorite character. I wouldn't have got it signed by him if I thought it would depreciate the value, which is why I got it signed by both of them. Plus seeing that it can not find it with both sigs shouldn't that make it more valuable? I found a copy about a year ago, same grade, starting bid 1500, signed by just Roy Thomas.

He I do see some logic in your thinking, with the rarity and the double sigs.  But sometimes rarity doesn’t coincide with premium, but rather indifference.  

and it sounds like to some extent you’re letting your own feelings and/or your knowledge of the costs factor into the MARKET PRICING of the book.  
 

you’ve heard what people here have to say and why. You may be tempted to argue some of the points, but to what end?  This isn’t the marketplace.  We’re not arguing to lowball you or drive the price down.  
 

there are literally tens of  thousands of comics that were not worth Stan Lee signing And grading, including drek, minor keys, and major keys.

the situations of sale could be wildly different as well.

lets say someone was wiling to $1500 on a major auction site.

it might be 30% commission so now you’ve got $1,050. And then you’re taxed on your profit.  Maybe your basis is zero (original owner), your signing and grading fees were $300 so now your profit is $750.

so you get hit w 30% state and federal tax, so that’s $225 off. 
 

so you’re essentially left w $800.  But you had to wait for auction and file tax paperwork.

or you could sell for cash for like $750 and save a bunch of hassle.  
 

who knows 

 

 

 

 

[Castle83]

I didn't come on here to sell this book on this site or to argue. Just looking for some info. To be honest I don't even want to sell the book. The reason I was asking for prices is because I saw a first issue ghost rider from the mid 2000s going for over 100,000 on ebay with just Stans sig on it so I figured it would stand to reason that since I had a first issue a silver age ghost rider with 2 sigs from golden age legends who are no longer with us that it would at the very least be near the same amount as the newer one i saw on ebay that was not even 20 yrs old not to mention the guy at cgc recommended i get it signed by both of them when i was at comic con because it would double the value and because ayers wasn't in the best of health he actually died a year after i met him thats why i was asking idk i guess the market just throws me off at times besides all this stuff is just worth what we think it is maybe there's someone out there who would pay that much i won't know til i try. Thanks for the help!

[shadroch]

If you will try and get prices from eBay, check out the sold items, not the newly listed ones. Anyone can list an item at any price.

[DougC]

On 5/27/2024 at 11:30 PM, Castle83 said:

I saw a first issue ghost rider from the mid 2000s going for over 100,000 on ebay with just Stans sig on it.. not to mention the guy at cgc recommended i get it signed by both of them when i was at comic con because it would double the value..

You are smarter than this.

You absolutely know the difference between inflated ebay random asking price and actual sold value. CGC also does not give "value" advice at the booth especially future guaranteed speculative market advice outside of determining FMV for grading.

I am sorry you are disappointed in the appraisals that you asked for; but a lesson in market value is never bad to learn.

[thehumantorch]

On 5/27/2024 at 10:30 PM, Castle83 said:

I didn't come on here to sell this book on this site or to argue. Just looking for some info. To be honest I don't even want to sell the book. The reason I was asking for prices is because I saw a first issue ghost rider from the mid 2000s going for over 100,000 on ebay with just Stans sig on it so I figured it would stand to reason that since I had a first issue a silver age ghost rider with 2 sigs from golden age legends who are no longer with us that it would at the very least be near the same amount as the newer one i saw on ebay that was not even 20 yrs old not to mention the guy at cgc recommended i get it signed by both of them when i was at comic con because it would double the value and because ayers wasn't in the best of health he actually died a year after i met him thats why i was asking idk i guess the market just throws me off at times besides all this stuff is just worth what we think it is maybe there's someone out there who would pay that much i won't know til i try. Thanks for the help!

This book?  You say you're not new to this but do you really think he has a chance to sell it for $175,000?  It's a delusional price and you can't use it as a comp.  In CGC 9.8 the book sells for about $150 and the Stan Lee sig might add a couple hundred.  And for approximate price confirmation I see the sketch variant of this book signed by Stan Lee sold for $645 in 2022 and would likely sell for about 1/2 of that today.  

https://www.ebay.com/itm/394441692439?itmmeta=01HYZ3V89X2A0KJVJT547EZHKH&hash=item5bd68e9517:g:MCwAAOSw94JjWczq&itmprp=enc%3AAQAJAAAA0E%2FNDR8y5sJDn220qK7P9jZ9LDXB024Gf60StV8HgPyal4nSx24%2FnjeqQI4ctDTDo0ROJW02uxAQS4LyxJFBQpqwiJuDrgeto5i9%2BbsZh%2BBkp3G1UPpcDMTsvXXgxKx38XGyt14FI4xfYdIAJ66u5qWMlX7AdnE3dN55JCJUiSpdKudrusNp2id1SEcdX%2BVP5vn6XKWNsvnb8s%2BhjEclZ9anrP9AwsVt3s0tqZcbMaiyOCmDQ0pM0Roi%2BdGPaj5vMsmRDRKSypqwrXduqJqAUOc%3D|tkp%3ABk9SR4CF7eP3Yw

If we agree with your logic that an Ayers signature added to a Stan Lee signature would double the value of the book we can look at the 7.5 that sold in 2021 for $1560 and price it down a bit for the grade reduction and then double it for the Ayers sig and we'd be lucky to hit $3k.  You'll never get close to crazy money.

[thehumantorch]

And if two GA legends sigs are worth crazy money how would you value this? 

1972 Comic Art Convention program book with a Frazetta cover signed by:

Jack Kirby -worth more than Stan any day
Neal Adams
Jim Steranko
Larry Ivie
Mike Royer
Murphy Anderson
Gary Morrow

If a 2004 Ghost Rider signed by Stan Lee is worth $175,000 my book with a Kirby sig must be worth more and I should be able to double it for each additional sig which runs it up to $11, 200,000

 

[seanfingh]

On 5/28/2024 at 6:27 AM, Fat Izzy said:

Ayers is not a Golden Age legend, sorry.

He is more of a Golden Age journeyman third baseman.

[seanfingh]

Also, for that book the grade is not high enough that there would be an extra premium for being double signed or anything.  Stan adds $250-300 and Ayers about $150.  FMV in this market is $1000-1100 and it may be worth more to the right buyer, say $1200-1500

[Castle83]

On 5/28/2024 at 3:39 AM, thehumantorch said:

This book?  You say you're not new to this but do you really think he has a chance to sell it for $175,000?  It's a delusional price and you can't use it as a comp.  In CGC 9.8 the book sells for about $150 and the Stan Lee sig might add a couple hundred.  And for approximate price confirmation I see the sketch variant of this book signed by Stan Lee sold for $645 in 2022 and would likely sell for about 1/2 of that today.  

https://www.ebay.com/itm/394441692439?itmmeta=01HYZ3V89X2A0KJVJT547EZHKH&hash=item5bd68e9517:g:MCwAAOSw94JjWczq&itmprp=enc%3AAQAJAAAA0E%2FNDR8y5sJDn220qK7P9jZ9LDXB024Gf60StV8HgPyal4nSx24%2FnjeqQI4ctDTDo0ROJW02uxAQS4LyxJFBQpqwiJuDrgeto5i9%2BbsZh%2BBkp3G1UPpcDMTsvXXgxKx38XGyt14FI4xfYdIAJ66u5qWMlX7AdnE3dN55JCJUiSpdKudrusNp2id1SEcdX%2BVP5vn6XKWNsvnb8s%2BhjEclZ9anrP9AwsVt3s0tqZcbMaiyOCmDQ0pM0Roi%2BdGPaj5vMsmRDRKSypqwrXduqJqAUOc%3D|tkp%3ABk9SR4CF7eP3Yw

If we agree with your logic that an Ayers signature added to a Stan Lee signature would double the value of the book we can look at the 7.5 that sold in 2021 for $1560 and price it down a bit for the grade reduction and then double it for the Ayers sig and we'd be lucky to hit $3k.  You'll never get close to crazy money.

 

[Castle83]

I agree it's a crazy amount of money, the only reason I was asking is because I couldn't find the book with either one of their signatures. I've seen books that I didn't think were worth much from the 90s that were signed by Stan getting sold for a few thousand dollars. So figured that my book would be more rare with the two sigs on it. Plus Ayers is a co creator of Ghost Rider. Not mad about it but doesn't mean I can't be a little disappointed. And like I said before, this stuff is only worth what we as people, as collectors, decide its worth. Thanks to everyone for the advice. Ayers is a golden age legend to me. 

[rumrunner71]

On 5/28/2024 at 2:33 PM, Castle83 said:

I agree it's a crazy amount of money, the only reason I was asking is because I couldn't find the book with either one of their signatures. I've seen books that I didn't think were worth much from the 90s that were signed by Stan getting sold for a few thousand dollars. So figured that my book would be more rare with the two sigs on it. Plus Ayers is a co creator of Ghost Rider. Not mad about it but doesn't mean I can't be a little disappointed. And like I said before, this stuff is only worth what we as people, as collectors, decide its worth. Thanks to everyone for the advice. Ayers is a golden age legend to me. 

I'm sorry you're disappointed. Many of us have been there before, too. But, hey, you got a cool book of one of your favorite characters, signed by one of your "legends" right before he died, and signed by Stan Lee. And it's worth near or more than $1000, which might not be 100k but is still pretty valuable. Treasure the book and the memory of meeting the signers. Gotta look on the positive sometimes.

[revat]

On 5/28/2024 at 11:33 AM, Castle83 said:

I agree it's a crazy amount of money, the only reason I was asking is because I couldn't find the book with either one of their signatures. I've seen books that I didn't think were worth much from the 90s that were signed by Stan getting sold for a few thousand dollars. So figured that my book would be more rare with the two sigs on it. Plus Ayers is a co creator of Ghost Rider. Not mad about it but doesn't mean I can't be a little disappointed. And like I said before, this stuff is only worth what we as people, as collectors, decide its worth. Thanks to everyone for the advice. Ayers is a golden age legend to me. 

The market is always changing and honestly for your comic, if they announced a western ghost rider movie (which would be cool and honestly not a terrible idea for a self-contained marvel genre movie) there's probably a window after the first trailer drops where you could get $5- $10K+ for it, with the rareness and double sigs.