Bidding on your own auction 8 8

[Sigur Ros]

On 6/27/2024 at 9:19 AM, Tec-Tac-Toe said:

I bid what I'm willing to pay, like most, not wining a single book for almost a decade, as, apparently, some folks "bid" amounts that obliterate mine. Still, I'm always thrilled to not have won for those amounts.

Exactly.

I have a price a book is worth to me.  If I lose to another bidder, or to the seller, it just means my bid wasn't enough.

Somehow I don't get mad or cry about it.

[Sigur Ros]

On 6/27/2024 at 3:41 PM, Lightning55 said:

 If someone is pushing the bid up fraudulently, causing you to pay $500 for something that legitimately would have ended at $400, they just stole $100 from you. So yeah, it matters, if it's rigged.

If you bid the $500 then no one stole it from you.

[Sigur Ros]

On 6/27/2024 at 3:59 PM, BlowUpTheMoon said:

What's your eBay ID? 

"VintageComics"

[wombat]

On 6/27/2024 at 5:46 PM, Sigur Ros said:

Exactly.

I have a price a book is worth to me.  If I lose to another bidder, or to the seller, it just means my bid wasn't enough.

Somehow I don't get mad or cry about it.

You are a true hero. 

[whisp]

On 6/27/2024 at 3:52 PM, Lightning55 said:

Some sites, like mycomicshop, start all auctions at $1, no reserves allowed to be placed. 

So?  Still doesn't make it right to bid on your own auctions/items.  

 

This day an age people just argue to argue.  This is one of those threads!

 

 

[Sigur Ros]

So, I shill bid on my stuff and win all the time.

I don't have a problem with that.

It's when I write and tell myself it's not as good of condition as described and try to get partial refunds from myself.

[Sigur Ros]

On 6/27/2024 at 5:58 PM, wombat said:

You are a true hero. 

I get that a lot.

[bc]

No. Just no.

If you don't want to sell an item below a reserve price, consign it to a venue that has that service.

-bc

 

[Ride the Tiger]

Anyone liking Boris The Bear is a hero!

[Darwination]

It's no secret that the way to find deals is through open auction, as these prices tend to be below BIN prices.  For the sliver of books that are truly hot, auctions can get you a better price than even a high BIN because of the emotion and competition involved. I'm an avowed sniper to avoid getting caught up in the moment.

The sellers that are using multiple shill accounts are inflating prices through the illusion of competition and desirability.  If there are three bidders on a comic and two are shills, somebody is getting tricked into thinking the book has more value than it actually has (i.e. that they could sell the comic to a willing underbidder down the road).

Edited Thursday at 10:09 PM by Darwination

[Sigur Ros]

On 6/27/2024 at 6:02 PM, Ride the Tiger said:

Anyone liking Boris The Bear is a hero!

Well thanks, but I can't do it alone.

It takes a team.

[Lightning55]

On 6/27/2024 at 5:52 PM, Sigur Ros said:

If you bid the $500 then no one stole it from you.

Yeah, they did.  You were bidding against a fictitious entity.  Basically bidding against yourself, but you don't know that.

It's real simple.  Shilling is wrong, unethical, and likely unlawful.  String 'em up, as they say in the Old West.

[bc]

On 6/26/2024 at 9:02 PM, shadroch said:

I'm not sure what ethics has to do with it.  

Suppose I consign a book to Auctionsareus.  I agree to a 10% consignment fee. It's a $500 book but everyone is sleeping and it is at $50 with one minute left.  I bid $70 and no one tops it. I pay the $70, the auction house gets it's $7 commission and I don't lose hundreds on the sale.  I have a contract with the auction house and honored it.  What contract or obligation do I owe the other potential buyers?

What????
So now you have bought the same book twice? (adding in all the shipping and other costs like the consignment fee).Unless you got a fantastic deal initially, this doesn't seem very logical.

As I said in my last post, if you needed to get a floor price to guarantee a profit, then a service that offers reserve pricing would be more appropriate.

-bc

[Lightning55]

On 6/27/2024 at 2:03 PM, whisp said:

You don't want to sell it under a certain price then put a reserve or just put a price on it and sell it straight up instead of playing games. 

On 6/27/2024 at 3:52 PM, Lightning55 said:

Some sites, like mycomicshop, start all auctions at $1, no reserves allowed to be placed. 

On 6/27/2024 at 6:00 PM, whisp said:

So?  Still doesn't make it right to bid on your own auctions/items.  

 

This day an age people just argue to argue.  This is one of those threads!

It isn't right, no argument there. 

I was responding to your comment to "just put a reserve".  There are sites where you can't put a reserve, so your "simple solution" is bogus.

[Sigur Ros]

On 6/27/2024 at 6:11 PM, Lightning55 said:

Yeah, they did.  You were bidding against a fictitious entity.  Basically bidding against yourself, but you don't know that.

It's real simple.  Shilling is wrong, unethical, and likely unlawful.  String 'em up, as they say in the Old West.

Understood, but..

You agreed to pay the $500.

That's what you felt the book was worth. Just because you didn't get it for less doesn't mean it was stolen.

Not really arguing, I just see it different.

Not the shill bidding itself, just the "stolen" comment.

 

 

[Lightning55]

On 6/27/2024 at 6:19 PM, Sigur Ros said:

Understood, but..

You agreed to pay the $500.

That's what you felt the book was worth. Just because you didn't get it for less doesn't mean it was stolen.

Not really arguing, I just see it different.

Not the shill bidding itself, just the "stolen" comment.

 

 

It's like being in a rigged roulette game at the casino. If you found out you were a victim of that type of fraud, you'd be all over it. 

This is the same thing, a rigged game aimed at extracting more money from you than would happen naturally.  It's theft.

[bc]

On 6/27/2024 at 6:22 PM, Lightning55 said:

It's like being in a rigged roulette game at the casino. If you found out you were a victim of that type of fraud, you'd be all over it. 

This is the same thing, a rigged game aimed at extracting more money from you than would happen naturally.  It's theft.

 

On 6/27/2024 at 6:19 PM, Sigur Ros said:

Understood, but..

You agreed to pay the $500.

That's what you felt the book was worth. Just because you didn't get it for less doesn't mean it was stolen.

Not really arguing, I just see it different.

Not the shill bidding itself, just the "stolen" comment.

 

 

So, shilling/fraud is bad. I think we all agree  

Placing a maximum bid in an auction and losing it legitimately (no shill bidding taking place) just happens 

-bc

[shadroch]

On 6/27/2024 at 2:28 PM, Nick Furious said:

Do you feel the other potential bidders should have knowledge that they may be bidding against the seller in the auction?  If that were stated up front, I could see it as acceptable, same as a reserve is acceptable.  But I would avoid that auction in the same way that I avoid reserve-price auctions.   

Absolutely.  If the auction rules allow it, I have no issue doing it.   If the rules forbid it, I don't.  I'm not sure what could be more explicit.  People need to read the rules and not be upset when other people follow them. 

[whisp]

On 6/27/2024 at 6:17 PM, Lightning55 said:

It isn't right, no argument there. 

I was responding to your comment to "just put a reserve".  There are sites where you can't put a reserve, so your "simple solution" is bogus.

Sure its simple.  Go elsewhere if you don't like the terms of the auction.

Anyways I am done with this thread I have better things to do.

[jcjames]

On 6/27/2024 at 3:22 PM, Lightning55 said:

It's like being in a rigged roulette game at the casino. If you found out you were a victim of that type of fraud, you'd be all over it. 

This is the same thing, a rigged game aimed at extracting more money from you than would happen naturally.  It's theft.

One may say that, "Well, all casino games are "rigged" in favor of the house and everyone knows the odds (or should know) going in - so what's the difference between gambling and shill bidding?".

But playing a casino game is not purchasing an item for sale - the game itself is the entertainment. Winning any money while playing the game is a lucky bonus and enticement to continue playing. 

Auctions are not games of entertainment, they are attempts to purchase a product from another party.

If the seller is manipulating the price during the transaction, without the buyer being specifically aware that it is actually happening, then that is dishonest and fraud. 

Comparing again to casinos, if the house changed odds in craps during the roll of the dice, that would be pretty much what's happening with shill bidding.

Manipulating the odds during the game is like manipulating the price during the transaction. 

Simply pointing to the fine print and saying "Well, it says here sellers MIGHT be bidding against you" is not an out - it's an admission of dishonest practices. It basically says, "Seller can change the price during the transaction and you'll never know." 

What is "legal" is sometimes not what is honest, moral or ethical. This is one of those cases. 

 

Edited Thursday at 10:50 PM by jcjames