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Newsstand Copies. My New favorite topic.
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Started by Kramerica,

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Kramerica

Kramerica

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In this next episode of Festivus and the Airing of Grievances I would like like to talk about the latest craze that all the cool kids are talking about: newsstand variants and their increased value.

I see more & more people adjusting their listings to highlight the increased value that their newsstand copy carries. Now, there are plenty of newsstand copies from 2012 or 2013 that are downright scarce and probably deserve whatever premium the buyer is asking for.

But when 95% or more of the issues published WERE newsstands it's (IMO) disingenuous to talk up your newsstand copy using scarcity or rarity as a selling point. For reference, May 1979 (example ASM #192) was the first month that direct market copies were shipped. Also the first month that comics transitioned from a .35 cent to a .40 cent cover price. Looks like I was in error here. There is proof of earlier such copies with the large diamond price box. 

The most frequent argument used by defenders of this is that newsstand copies were heavily thumbed through so there are less NM copies of Newsstand books. A lot less. And that's true. I'm going to guess that of the 280,000 or so printed that at LEAST 200,000 copies of Amazing Spider-Man #192 have no chance of being NM. So, the seller of the NM newsstand copy on eBay would have you believe it is worth so much more. And those Direct Edition copies? Those same sellers of the "rare newsstand" copies will have you believe that every single one is in NM condition and as plentiful as can be. And the more people notice the more they turn around and label their auction "NEWSSTAND" & "RARE" And this is so butt-backwards.

But now we've crossed another line in the sand. I noticed CGC is notating certain books as "Newsstand Copy." I don't know if they are notating the Direct Market copies.

Then, the other day I noticed a large retailer of back issues created a separate spot in their inventory for both Newsstand and Direct Edition copies of ASM #192 and are pricing them differently. Now, most people don't care. But when the collector learns they didn't find a nice copy of Amazing Spider-Man #192 because they weren't looking under both entries/sku's for Amazing Spider-Man #192. It's sort of a bummer.

And how does GPA address this now?

Do other dealers now follow suit? Do we then go searching out dealers based on this to try and score a cool flip of a cheap priced book?

But the real bummer is that anyone who owns a Amazing Spider-Man #194 CGC 9.8 Direct Market copy (or even 9.4) is getting the shaft. Because as you can see from the graph below the available pool of Direct Editions than Newsstands to pull from is 95% smaller.

I'm sure I've made a mistake or perhaps overweighed the importance of something(s) here but I'd love to hear from folks, especially those who have more insight on this.

image.thumb.png.36c910c2a1e38b1be47ee2d8b9399792.png

 

Edited by Kramerica
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Gator Guru

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On 6/26/2024 at 10:44 PM, Kramerica said:

In this next episode of Festivus and the Airing of Grievances I would like like to talk about the latest craze that all the cool kids are talking about: newsstand variants and their increased value.

I see more & more people adjusting their listings to highlight the increased value that their newsstand copy carries. Now, there are plenty of newsstand copies from 2012 or 2013 that are downright scarce and probably deserve whatever premium the buyer is asking for.

But when 95% or more of the issues published WERE newsstands it's (IMO) disingenuous to talk up your newsstand copy using scarcity or rarity as a selling point. For reference, May 1979 (example ASM #192) was the first month that direct market copies were shipped. Also the first month that comics transitioned from a .35 cent to a .40 cent cover price.

The most frequent argument used by defenders of this is that newsstand copies were heavily thumbed through so there are less NM copies of Newsstand books. A lot less. And that's true. In fact, I'm going to guess that at LEAST 300,000 copies of Amazing Spider-Man #192 have no chance of being NM. So, the NM newsstand copy on eBay is worth so much more. And those Direct Edition copies? I'm sure many sellers of "rare newsstand" copies will have you believe that every single one is in NM condition. And the more people notice the more they turn around and do it. And this is so butt-backwards.

But now we've crossed another line in the sand. I noticed CGC is notating certain books as "Newsstand Copy." I don't know if they are notating the Direct Market copies.

Then, the other day I noticed a large retailer of back issues created a separate spot in their inventory for both Newsstand and Direct Edition copies of ASM #192 and are pricing them differently. Now, most people don't care. But when the collector learns they didn't find a nice copy of Amazing Spider-Man #192 because they weren't looking under both entries/sku's for Amazing Spider-Man #192. It's sort of a bummer.

And how does GPA address this now?

Do other dealers now follow suit? Do we then go searching out dealers based on this to try and score a cool flip of a cheap priced book?

But the real bummer is that anyone who owns a Amazing Spider-Man #194 CGC 9.8 Direct Market copy (or even 9.4) is getting the shaft. Because as you can see from the graph below the available pool of Direct Editions than Newsstands to pull from is 95% smaller.

I'm sure I've made a mistake or perhaps overweighed the importance of something(s) here but I'd love to hear from folks, especially those who have more insight on this.

image.thumb.png.36c910c2a1e38b1be47ee2d8b9399792.png

 

With the rise of 9.9s the whole newsstand (oh wow a barcode) craze will likely die off to a large degree. Much better to have the extra artwork in a rare 9.9 grade over a 9.8 newsie.

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LordRahl

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Posted (edited)
On 6/26/2024 at 7:44 PM, Kramerica said:

In this next episode of Festivus and the Airing of Grievances I would like like to talk about the latest craze that all the cool kids are talking about: newsstand variants and their increased value.

I see more & more people adjusting their listings to highlight the increased value that their newsstand copy carries. Now, there are plenty of newsstand copies from 2012 or 2013 that are downright scarce and probably deserve whatever premium the buyer is asking for.

But when 95% or more of the issues published WERE newsstands it's (IMO) disingenuous to talk up your newsstand copy using scarcity or rarity as a selling point. For reference, May 1979 (example ASM #192) was the first month that direct market copies were shipped. Also the first month that comics transitioned from a .35 cent to a .40 cent cover price.

The most frequent argument used by defenders of this is that newsstand copies were heavily thumbed through so there are less NM copies of Newsstand books. A lot less. And that's true. In fact, I'm going to guess that at LEAST 300,000 copies of Amazing Spider-Man #192 have no chance of being NM. So, the NM newsstand copy on eBay is worth so much more. And those Direct Edition copies? I'm sure many sellers of "rare newsstand" copies will have you believe that every single one is in NM condition. And the more people notice the more they turn around and do it. And this is so butt-backwards.

But now we've crossed another line in the sand. I noticed CGC is notating certain books as "Newsstand Copy." I don't know if they are notating the Direct Market copies.

Then, the other day I noticed a large retailer of back issues created a separate spot in their inventory for both Newsstand and Direct Edition copies of ASM #192 and are pricing them differently. Now, most people don't care. But when the collector learns they didn't find a nice copy of Amazing Spider-Man #192 because they weren't looking under both entries/sku's for Amazing Spider-Man #192. It's sort of a bummer.

And how does GPA address this now?

Do other dealers now follow suit? Do we then go searching out dealers based on this to try and score a cool flip of a cheap priced book?

But the real bummer is that anyone who owns a Amazing Spider-Man #194 CGC 9.8 Direct Market copy (or even 9.4) is getting the shaft. Because as you can see from the graph below the available pool of Direct Editions than Newsstands to pull from is 95% smaller.

I'm sure I've made a mistake or perhaps overweighed the importance of something(s) here but I'd love to hear from folks, especially those who have more insight on this.

image.thumb.png.36c910c2a1e38b1be47ee2d8b9399792.png

 

GPA notes newsstand if they know it's a newsstand that sold. They didn't do that until the last couple of years, same as CGC. From my experience newsstands in 9.8 are harder to find than direct. I looked at this a couple of weeks ago because of a similar thread... this is obviously a small sample size so take it for what it's worth but I've sold 78 copies of New Mutants 98 in 9.8 over the years and I keep scans of everything I sell. The vast majority of those sales occurred prior to 2022, when I paid no attention to direct vs newsstand. Care to guess how many were newsstand out of 78? 

I should do this exercise for all of the books I've sold over the years but it's thousands of books at this point and it sounds like a lot of work.

Edited by LordRahl
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Kramerica

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On 6/26/2024 at 8:44 PM, LordRahl said:

GPA notes newsstand if they know it's a newsstand that sold. They didn't do that until the last couple of years, same as CGC. From my experience newsstands in 9.8 are harder to find than direct. I looked at this a couple of weeks ago because of a similar thread... this is obviously a small sample size so take it for what it's worth but I've sold 78 copies of New Mutants 98 in 9.8 over the years and I keep scans of everything I sell. The vast majority of those sales occurred prior to 2022, when I paid no attention to direct vs newsstand. Care to guess how many were newsstand out of 78? 

I should do this exercise for all of the books I've sold over the years but it's thousands of books at this point and it sounds like a lot of work.

What is your experience with ASM #238, Thor #337, Wolverine (1982) #1 and X-Men #141? Because 1/10th of the copies printed were Direct Editions. There's a big difference between New Mutants #98 and these books. By 1991 nearly 90% of the New Mutants #98 printed were Direct Editions. So, I'd hazard that close to 10 out of 10 of your New Mutants were Direct Editions. The population pool is overwhelmingly Direct Edition.

I apologize if I wasn't clear with the thrust of my argument. It's not that it was just a Newsstand Edition, it's WHEN it was printed. Not all newsstands are printed equal. By 1991 comic books were huge and stores were plentiful all across the USA which is why 9 out of 10 New Mutants #98's are Direct Editions - not just 9.8's but the 2.0's too.

Most of the emphasis of my post is railing against all of the people selling 1979-1986 and in all CAPS writing NEWSSTAND COPY in the title as if it was gold.

My argument is that if you're holding an ASM #194 Direct Edition in CGC 9.8 you're holding the true rare book with its black cover.

DirectvsNewsstand.thumb.png.6259069d42ec4461ff7c42667f38f720.png

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Kramerica
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LordRahl

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On 6/26/2024 at 9:26 PM, Kramerica said:

What is your experience with ASM #238, Thor #337, Wolverine (1982) #1 and X-Men #141? Because 1/10th of the copies printed were Direct Editions. There's a big difference between New Mutants #98 and these books. By 1991 nearly 90% of the New Mutants #98 printed were Direct Editions. So, I'd hazard that close to 10 out of 10 of your New Mutants were Direct Editions. The population pool is overwhelmingly Direct Edition.

I apologize if I wasn't clear with the thrust of my argument. It's not that it was just a Newsstand Edition, it's WHEN it was printed. Not all newsstands are printed equal. By 1991 comic books were huge and stores were plentiful all across the USA which is why 9 out of 10 New Mutants #98's are Direct Editions - not just 9.8's but the 2.0's too.

Most of the emphasis of my post is railing against all of the people selling 1979-1986 and in all CAPS writing NEWSSTAND COPY in the title as if it was gold.

My argument is that if you're holding an ASM #194 Direct Edition in CGC 9.8 you're holding the true rare book with its black cover.

DirectvsNewsstand.thumb.png.6259069d42ec4461ff7c42667f38f720.png

 

 

 

 

 

Let me look them up. No where near the same numbers of NM 98's in terms of total sold but no idea on direct/ns split. I'll report back.

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LordRahl

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On 6/26/2024 at 9:26 PM, Kramerica said:

What is your experience with ASM #238, Thor #337, Wolverine (1982) #1 and X-Men #141? Because 1/10th of the copies printed were Direct Editions. There's a big difference between New Mutants #98 and these books. By 1991 nearly 90% of the New Mutants #98 printed were Direct Editions. So, I'd hazard that close to 10 out of 10 of your New Mutants were Direct Editions. The population pool is overwhelmingly Direct Edition.

I apologize if I wasn't clear with the thrust of my argument. It's not that it was just a Newsstand Edition, it's WHEN it was printed. Not all newsstands are printed equal. By 1991 comic books were huge and stores were plentiful all across the USA which is why 9 out of 10 New Mutants #98's are Direct Editions - not just 9.8's but the 2.0's too.

Most of the emphasis of my post is railing against all of the people selling 1979-1986 and in all CAPS writing NEWSSTAND COPY in the title as if it was gold.

My argument is that if you're holding an ASM #194 Direct Edition in CGC 9.8 you're holding the true rare book with its black cover.

 

 

 

 

 

 

6 of the 78 were Newsstand. Interestingly, far fewer 9.4's and 9.6's with a higher percentage of NS. Only 6 9.4's with 3 of them being NS and 27 9.6's with 4 NS

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Lazyboy

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On 6/26/2024 at 11:59 PM, LordRahl said:

ASM 238 3 in 9.4 NS 1 / D 2, 6 in 9.6 NS 1 / D 5, 4 in 9.8 all D.

Thor 337 9 in 9.8 all D ( I knew this one I wouldn't have any NS as they all came from one guy and I know all his stuff was Direct)

Wolvie 1 4 in 9.6 NS 1 D 3, 24 in 9.8 with 2 NS

X Men 141 4 in 9.6 NS 2 / D 2, 8 in 9.8 NS 3 D 5

There we go. What you've sold isn't nearly as relevant as where you got them.

But it's still funny that, out of those issues, Thor 337 is the one of which you had no Newsstands.

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DC#

DC#

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A year ago I posted this in the Bronze forum on an ASM 194 thread.   

Just looking at prior 12 months sales on GPA for 194 the ratio is 1:1.4 on 9.8s in favor of direct.  Extrapolating that with census counts - it means there might be around 315 direct copies and 210 newsstand for the 9.8.  

My point in that thread was that issue in particular had no real reason for price difference based on scarcity.   It is not the same as ASM 300 where the ratio is 1:50 or more.  

Edited by DC#
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Kramerica

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On 6/26/2024 at 10:04 PM, LordRahl said:

6 of the 78 were Newsstand. Interestingly, far fewer 9.4's and 9.6's with a higher percentage of NS. Only 6 9.4's with 3 of them being NS and 27 9.6's with 4 NS

Thanks for looking at all of those :headbang: And to everyone who has added info here, snarky or not. I included too much info in my initial post and should and focused simply on the actual scarcity/rarity and how people are using the "Newsstand" heading to infer that something is rare when it is not.

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