Stan Lee Lied - Your Handy Guide to Every Lie in the 'Origins of Marvel Comics' 11 11

[Mmehdy]

63 pages and some folks still do not get it. I understand what has been fed to us all of those years with origin and son of origin and all sorts of stuff placed upon each other… year after year… it is now in 2024 that SM has cared enough to reconstruct what happened in the early years of the marvel big bang which I would include 61,62 and 63. It would interesting to see the debate between Stan and Jack A.I….  One heck of a fight. But I think each year 61-63 was equally important… it was not till early 62 that serious collectors.. the teenagers  in my neighborhood and I am 7… who had the big collections took real notice… I would say FF 4 and FF5  back in the old days. That’s when they introduced me to the double buy concept.. one to read and one to be unread…it wasn’t till I hit 10… that I started doing that and only on issues o really really liked.

They felt different… they proved the test of time… still great today… cheers!

Edited September 30 by Mmehdy

[Paul © ® ⚽️💙™]

On 9/30/2024 at 4:15 PM, Mmehdy said:

61 pages and some folks still do not get it. I understand what has been fed to us all of those years with origin and son of origin and all sorts of stuff placed upon each other… year after year… it is now in 2024 that SM has cared enough to reconstruct what happened in the early years of the marvel big bang which I would include 61,62 and 63. It would interesting to see the debate between Stan and Jack A.I….  One heck of a fight. But I think each year 61-63 was equally important… it was not till early 62 that serious collectors.. the teenagers  in my neighborhood and I am 7… who had the big collections took real notice… I would say FF 4 and FF5  back in the old days. That’s when they introduced me to the double buy concept.. one to read and one to be unread…it wasn’t till I hit 10… that I started doing that and only on issues o really really liked.

They felt different… they proved the test of time… still great today… cheers!

Mitch, I'm sorry but I cannot take what you say seriously on this matter. Your boyish enthusiasm is commendable and a positive review is a positive review, but you are posting definitive comments when you haven't even finished the book, and you were posting positive reviews here when you were not in possession of the book and were writing positive reviews on BLEEDING COOL before you had read it.

What is the motivation behind this manic fan-boy drum beating?

Are you on some sort of commission?  

EDIT:

Because if you are not on commission then Gower owes you several drinks.  

Edited September 30 by Paul © ® ⚽️💙™

[VintageComics]

On 9/29/2024 at 9:50 PM, Prince Namor said:

On 9/29/2024 at 7:51 PM, VintageComics said:

You must have known that your title was going to enrage people and that discussion was going to ensue on anything and everything peripheral to Stan Lee. It's the internet. You've been on the chat forums for how long?

If you don't want to discuss anything outside of the book then I would think that the only way to do that is not to engage in the discussion and promote your book in the dealer's section.

Thats not what I said. 

Then let me try to be more clear.

Your book is called "The Handy Guide To Every Lie In The Origins Of Marvel Comics" and is basically a 'collection of Stan's lies' collected to prove Stan Lee lied and stole credit. It's an expose on what Stan Lee DIDN'T do but said he did. 

You basically brought a pail of gasoline to the bonfire. 

People are countering with what he DID do as a natural counterpoint to what he didn't do. It's a natural reaction. It's expected. And in fact, since most of Stan's accomplishments are to be found outside of the book it's only natural and even necessary that people bring them in to the debate. 

Somewhere in between the collection of stories from both sides of TILTED, angled truths is the actual truth. Your book isn't interested in the truth. It's interested in 'the truths that show how Stan Lee lied', and that's the difference. 

If you wanted your book to be well received, you would have written a different book. Instead, your book acts as a cudgel to force it's beliefs into people's lives, and because of that you're going to get a strong opposition. Some people won't even want to read the book because of this.

So if you "know how this works" then you knew this was coming.

Edited September 30 by VintageComics

[Prince Namor]

On 9/30/2024 at 10:43 PM, VintageComics said:

Then let me try to be more clear.

Your book is called "The Handy Guide To Every Lie In The Origins Of Marvel Comics" and is basically a 'collection of Stan's lies' collected to prove Stan Lee lied and stole credit. It's an expose on what Stan Lee DIDN'T do but said he did. 

Not completely. But go on being an expert about a book you haven't read.

On 9/30/2024 at 10:43 PM, VintageComics said:

You basically brought a pail of gasoline to the bonfire. 

For telling the truth? 

On 9/30/2024 at 10:43 PM, VintageComics said:

People are countering with what he DID do as a natural counterpoint to what he didn't do. It's a natural reaction. It's expected. And in fact, since most of Stan's accomplishments are to be found outside of the book it's only natural and even necessary that people bring them in to the debate. 

They've done what they've always done. Try and suffocate the truth.

On 9/30/2024 at 10:43 PM, VintageComics said:

Somewhere in between the collection of stories from both sides of TILTED, angled truths is the actual truth. Your book isn't interested in the truth. It's interested in 'the truths that show how Stan Lee lied', and that's the difference. 

The TRUTH is he DID lie. How is that different than telling the truth?

If I run a red light, I don't go before a judge with 20 people telling him about all the good things I've done in life - none of that matters - I still ran a red light.

Stan Lee blatantly lied in a book he presented as the truthful story of the Origins of Marvel Comics.

How is this so lost on you?

I did my job - I exposed it as a LIE. 

On 9/30/2024 at 10:43 PM, VintageComics said:

If you wanted your book to be well received,

Got news for you - the people who've read it have all been positive. It's only the people who HAVEN'T EVEN READ IT that have been negative.

On 9/30/2024 at 10:43 PM, VintageComics said:

you would have written a different book. Instead, your book acts as a cudgel to force it's beliefs into people's lives, and because of that you're going to get a strong opposition. Some people won't even want to read the book because of this.

The people who aren't going to read it, knew they weren't going to read it before they knew a damn thing about it.

On 9/30/2024 at 10:43 PM, VintageComics said:

So if you "know how this works" then you knew this was coming.

It's not a biography of Stan Lee. 

It's about the LIES he told in the Origins of Marvel Comics.

What people feel are his 'positive accomplishments' have been well documented for 60+ years. 

What hasn't been are the lies he told in stealing credit and pay from his artists. 

I wrote the book how I chose to write it - not to please Stan Lee fans who only want smoke blown up their butt.

Edited September 30 by Prince Namor

[lostboys]

I dont think the goal of this book is to make money.

Stan Lee fans wont read it.

Stan lee haters will read it.

Basic comic book collectors, like me, could not care less.

 

Hugh Heffner = Nudie books

Walt Disney = Animated movies

Stan Lee = Comic Books

 

[Prince Namor]

On 9/30/2024 at 10:21 PM, Paul © ® ⚽️💙™ said:

Mitch, I'm sorry but I cannot take what you say seriously on this matter. 

What is the motivation behind this manic fan-boy drum beating?

Are you on some sort of commission?  

It's just amazing what you get away with.

[Prince Namor]

On 10/1/2024 at 12:11 AM, lostboys said:

I dont think the goal of this book is to make money.

Stan Lee fans wont read it.

Stan lee haters will read it.

Basic comic book collectors, like me, could not care less.

 

Hugh Heffner = Nudie books

Walt Disney = Animated movies

Stan Lee = Comic Books

 

Available now at Amazon!

[Prince Namor]

It's strange to me this... idolization of people. I can't remember ever... idolizing anybody THAT much. 

When I was a younger man, I remember Albert Goldman wrote a book on John Lennon, and it revealed some things that were not flattering. Lennon's work both with the Beatles and after is very important to me, but... it really didn't bother me. It bothered a lot of other people. But as an adult, I could separate the speculation or truth of who he was as a man vs what he created as an artist. 

I never understood people who hung on to what they felt as a boy (or girl) and just clung to that. I have nostalgic feelings for things that happened in my childhood, but I would never want to be delusional about reality in protecting it. That seems weird to me. And unhealthy. 

I see fans do it with Prince and Morrissey... two more musicians whose work is very important to me. Yet I just... don't really care to defend THEM. The Beatles and the Smiths are two of my favorite groups of all time, but... whatever they had going on in their personal lives... I mean, ok. Someone once asked me in a discussion of Morrissey how he'd said some awful thing (he's said so many, I'm not even sure I remember which awful thing it was) and was waiting for me, I guess, to defend it or give a condemnation of it and... I said, 'maybe you should ask Morrissey.' I'm not HIM. I don't represent him. He's free to feel whatever he wants. It has nothing to do with my enjoyment of his music.

I'm not saying this as a way to say how I think people should or shouldn't feel or if I'm right about it and they're not. 

Feel how you want to feel, I don't really care either way.

Just know that... as the truth comes out about Stan Lee... and it will continue to come out... it doesn't have to change how what happened in the Silver Age made you feel or the way he spoke to you in those Bullpen Bulletins and how it made you love those comics. You don't ever have to let go of that. It doesn't have to be one of the other - the truth or your nostalgia. You can actually have both. 

[lostboys]

On 9/30/2024 at 1:16 PM, Prince Namor said:

Available now at Amazon!

 

There are literally thousands of other books Id rather read if I had the time.

Edited September 30 by lostboys

[lostboys]

On 9/30/2024 at 1:41 PM, Prince Namor said:

It's strange to me this... idolization of people. I can't remember ever... idolizing anybody THAT much. 

When I was a younger man, I remember Albert Goldman wrote a book on John Lennon, and it revealed some things that were not flattering. Lennon's work both with the Beatles and after is very important to me, but... it really didn't bother me. It bothered a lot of other people. But as an adult, I could separate the speculation or truth of who he was as a man vs what he created as an artist. 

I never understood people who hung on to what they felt as a boy (or girl) and just clung to that. I have nostalgic feelings for things that happened in my childhood, but I would never want to be delusional about reality in protecting it. That seems weird to me. And unhealthy. 

I see fans do it with Prince and Morrissey... two more musicians whose work is very important to me. Yet I just... don't really care to defend THEM. The Beatles and the Smiths are two of my favorite groups of all time, but... whatever they had going on in their personal lives... I mean, ok. Someone once asked me in a discussion of Morrissey how he'd said some awful thing (he's said so many, I'm not even sure I remember which awful thing it was) and was waiting for me, I guess, to defend it or give a condemnation of it and... I said, 'maybe you should ask Morrissey.' I'm not HIM. I don't represent him. He's free to feel whatever he wants. It has nothing to do with my enjoyment of his music.

I'm not saying this as a way to say how I think people should or shouldn't feel or if I'm right about it and they're not. 

Feel how you want to feel, I don't really care either way.

Just know that... as the truth comes out about Stan Lee... and it will continue to come out... it doesn't have to change how what happened in the Silver Age made you feel or the way he spoke to you in those Bullpen Bulletins and how it made you love those comics. You don't ever have to let go of that. It doesn't have to be one of the other - the truth or your nostalgia. You can actually have both. 

You wrote a book, White Knighting for someone you idolize...

[Prince Namor]

On 10/1/2024 at 12:57 AM, lostboys said:

You wrote a book, White Knighting for someone you idolize...

I don't idolize Kirby. I appreciate what he's done, and I greatly enjoy his work. But by no means do I idolize him. 

My personal favorite comic book artists might surprise some, but... I guess most people just feel favoritism is what drives people. Again, I find that weird.

I ran a music store back in the mid-late 80's, and my Regional Director was in, and as we were going through stock, he said, "Man, you must really love Country Music."

I said, "No. I actually don't care for it at all." 

He looked at me funny. "Then why do you carry so much of it?"

I looked back at HIM funny, "Uh... because we SELL it."

 

Kirby was the King. Plain and simple. 

 

And White Knighting?

I presented the truth, as told by the people who were there.

Another expert on my book who hasn't read it. 

[Mmehdy]

On 9/30/2024 at 8:21 AM, Paul © ® ⚽️💙™ said:

Mitch, I'm sorry but I cannot take what you say seriously on this matter. Your boyish enthusiasm is commendable and a positive review is a positive review, but you are posting definitive comments when you haven't even finished the book, and you were posting positive reviews here when you were not in possession of the book and were writing positive reviews on BLEEDING COOL before you had read it.

What is the motivation behind this manic fan-boy drum beating?

Are you on some sort of commission?  

EDIT:

Because if you are not on commission then Gower owes you several drinks.  

I have finished the book a long time ago...check on page 20... or something like that, and I have gone back to reread some of the portions that I am most interested in...I confirmed that on a post on this thread, Please read my early posts about how much I can about the true origins of marvel comics....I was a part of that history, I lived thru it...it blew my young mind....there was nothing like before....EC was before my time, I got paperbacks and said wow...that is another story.

 The most controversial book in comic book history for 2024 by a mile.

I was digging for this story many many years ago with Greg and his pure images mags at SDCC...some of the best stuff ever written...I think the key here is we were getting a bunch of BS on the Marvel Masteworks introductions which were just too perfect.....a sort of a Con.

Imagine to my surprise ...we are revisiting it 20 years later...of course I am excited.

But here is my question to you Paul...have you read it, even the free on Kindle or even the preview.....please say that you have!!!!! 

If not, do it and you will come back on this board and say...OK...I get it now....you guys were 100% spot on....amazing...

[Mmehdy]

On 9/30/2024 at 10:55 AM, lostboys said:

 

There are literally thousands of other books Id rather read if I had the time.

Not like this one....if you care at all, about comic book history...a must read....for 2024 for sure!

[Paul © ® ⚽️💙™]

On 9/30/2024 at 6:15 PM, Prince Namor said:

On 9/30/2024 at 4:21 PM, Paul © ® ⚽️💙™ said:

Mitch, I'm sorry but I cannot take what you say seriously on this matter. 

What is the motivation behind this manic fan-boy drum beating?

Are you on some sort of commission?  

It's just amazing what you get away with.

You keep banging on about the truth.....how you seek it, and that's what you are presenting.

You do not have a monopoly on the truth.

Mitch wrote a review on your book BEFORE he read it.  TRUTH

[Albert Tatlock]

Truth will out, but it may take time.

Some 60 years ago, Buffy Sainte-Marie claimed to have been born on a reservation in Saskatchewan, was orphaned and raised by relatives in the US.

The story served her well, as it singled her out from a host of other wannabees in the burgeoning folk/rock music scene.

Her widely recognised talent (no-one has ever doubted that she and usually she alone wrote her own songs) won her a place in the industry, and she was showered with awards and their associated financial prizes.

However, a recent journalistic probe outed her as not only not only not a First Nations woman, but as not even Canadian, having been born into an Italian-American family in a suburb of Boston.

Now, at the age of 83, she is retired. living in Hawaii, and facing demands to disown her awards, so that those who would rightfully have been entitled to them can be belatedly credited, in a similar fashion to how false Olympic champions (Ben Johnson and Flo-Jo, among others, come to mind) are justly dethroned.

It is a little off-thread, so I will not post a link, but a quick Google of Pretendian Buffy will lead to several cans of worms.

Stan Lee unmasked as having cut himself a larger slice of the cake than he was entitled to is no surprise, although his remaining acolytes can at least claim that he did strain every sinew to increase the overall size of the cake.

You can fool all of the people some of the time.................

[VintageComics]

On 9/30/2024 at 12:58 PM, Prince Namor said:

On 9/30/2024 at 11:43 AM, VintageComics said:

You basically brought a pail of gasoline to the bonfire. 

For telling the truth? 

As someone who has studied and debated / discussed biblical texts for decades (even pre internet), without trying to be critical of you personally, in general how you tell the truth matters, and actually matters more than the truth itself if you want people to hear it.

I had a lot more typed but I don't want to make this the focus of the discussion. 

[Mmehdy]

On 9/30/2024 at 12:06 PM, Paul © ® ⚽️💙™ said:

You keep banging on about the truth.....how you seek it, and that's what you are presenting.

You do not have a monopoly on the truth.

Mitch wrote a review on your book BEFORE he read it.  TRUTH

No and you know that is not a fact....I read it over a number of days..carefully....please see my earlier posts.....and you still have not answered my question...."Have you dared to read it yourself"

Edited September 30 by Mmehdy

[Mmehdy]

On 9/30/2024 at 12:09 PM, Paul © ® ⚽️💙™ said:

You keep banging on about the truth.....how you seek it, and that's what you are presenting.

You do not have a monopoly on the truth.

I stand by what I said above because it is the TRUTH.

Anyone reading the thread from a neutral perspective would easily reach that conclusion.

Anyone reading this book, will come to a different conclusion on Stan Lee..that is a fact

[Paul © ® ⚽️💙™]

On 9/30/2024 at 8:10 PM, Mmehdy said:

No and you know that is not a fact....I read it over a number of days..carefully....please see my earlier posts.....and you still have not answered my question...."Have you dared to read it yourself"

You posted a review on BLEEDING COOL immediately the book appeared there, ergo you could not have read it. What you actually commented on is how you feel about the subject.

If of course you received a copy from the author in advance of sale and therefore read it some weeks ago, and then wrote the review, then of course I would retract my statement.

Did that happen?

[Paul © ® ⚽️💙™]

On 9/30/2024 at 8:13 PM, Mmehdy said:

Anyone reading this book, will come to a different conclusion on Stan Lee..that is a fact

Only people living under a rock do not know (within the comic community) about Stan's Shenanigans.

There are undiscovered Amazonian tribes who know it.

People outside the business, don't care.

It's old news.

My issue has only ever been about the complete vitriol that the author has shown in going after the man. I mean why?

And what staggers me, and I will re-iterate this for anyone unclear...I have never ever known any book promoted in such an arrogant and dismissive manner by an author when held up to even the most mildest of scrutiny.

Maybe that approach sells books now, I dunno.