The Greatest Copper Age Character

[Jayman]

 

My top 6 picks:

 

1. Miracleman

2. Sandman (Gaiman)

3. John Constantine

4. Venom

5. Hobgoblin

6. Beta Ray Bill

 

Beta Ray Bill over the Hobgoblin??

 

I guess he stuck in my mind cause of the recent mini series.

But OK its corrected...

[Marvel 25th-migration]

"It's interesting that we still don't have any consesus as to who was Copper's great contribution to ComicBookDom. Does Copper have a character that can sit at the podium with Wolverine, Superman, Batman, and Spidey?"

 

Of course the answer is no. However, there were very creative things happening during the Copper Age, and some of the best dealt with those characters. Wolverine came into his own during this period with the limited series and his origin started to come into focus. Superman is Superman, kind of a boring character IMHO. Batman: The Dark Knight Returns was maybe the essential book of the period. Spidey gained two new hugely popular villians (Hobgoblin and Venom) a new costume, and a revolutionary new artist.

 

Also, just because a character first appeared during a certain "Age" doesn't mean that age defined them. I will always consider Punisher and Sabretooth 80s characters and therefore "Copper Age". Nobody cared about Punisher until the limited series and Sabretooth appeared in more books in 1986 than the previous 9 years combined.

 

That said, Copper's greatest contribution to ComicBookDom was that whether it was good (Squadron Supreme) or bad (New Universe) anything unknown or edgy was probably not going to be profitable. That is why we had 4 Spidey titles, 3 Wolverines, 2 Punishers, and so on.

 

Copper's most important character is the "Electric Company Spidey" at Wall Street when Marvel went public.

[october]

Bah.

 

1. Usagi Yojimbo

2. Usagi Yojimbo

3. Sandman

4. Venom

5. The Tick

6. Beta Ray Bill

[micmack]

Don't forget Rogue :-)

[CJ]

Gambit

Venom

Are the biggest two single characters from the Copper age in my opinion

 

If its "books" we are talking about then put

TNMT and GI JOE at the top of the list

[joe_collector]

It's interesting that we still don't have any consesus as to who was Copper's great contribution to ComicBookDom. Does Copper have a character that can sit at the podium with Wolverine, Superman, Batman, and Spidey?

 

Or has Copper simply (in some particular way) redefined the traditional comic book character(s)?

 

I've said this before, and I'll say it again...

 

Once kids started leaving the comic book market en masse (late-80's) with them went any chance of new or interesting characters (at least at DC or Marvel) gaining any sort of popularity.

 

Instead, the aging fanboys wanted "new takes" on thei rexisting favorites, which is a big reasoin why Dark Knight Returns and Watchmen were so popular. That brought on the Deconstruction Phase, and both Marvel and DC continued to experiment with ways of changing and adapting SA characters without losing these old school readership. Valiant brought back many old favorites as well, and basically it became an adult market designed to maintain the status quo of SA and some BA characters.

 

Even today, Marvel is trying a new angle with the "everything is the same, only slightly different" with the Silver Age revival in the Ultimate Universe - nothing is new, old timers are still buying, and it's just the SA being retold. But that's apparently what the aging fanbase wants and I can't see that changing.

 

In my opinion, we'll never see another character at Marvel or DC that has the popularity of a Punisher or Wolverine, just as we have not seen one for the past 32 years.

 

Yes, 32 years.

[joe_collector]

Wolverine came into his own during this period with the limited series and his origin started to come into focus.

 

Nobody cared about Punisher until the limited series...

 

I have to dispute these two bizarre statements, as this is a total misrepresentation of what was going on.

 

Punisher was one of the most popular characters in the Bronze Age ASM line-up, and reponses were incredibly positive in each appearance. Hardly a lettercol went by without someone requesting another Punisher appearance or a peek at his origin, but back then, Marvel didn't over-expose their characters. But even so, Punny appeared pretty regularly compared to other villains or anti-heroes co-stars.

 

Wolverine is the same way, and even in the Byrne run, was by far the favorite X-Men. His solo appearance in X-Men 133 got rave reviews and he was a featured player into the 1980's. This isn't even up for debate, as both Byrne and Claremont have stated it on several occasions.

 

Now as for the mini-series and the collecting heat, you had to be around then to understand how much has changed. On average, late-Silver and Bronze first appearances weren't actively collected, and first issues were the big deal. These Limited Series looked to make money based on the "Fixation on #1 Issues" by releasing a ton of them, and when Punisher #1 came out, it was worth more than ASM 129.

 

(About 1988-89, the sportscard "rookie" phenomenon entered comics and changed it to a "first appearances" market, but #1 issues were king in the 70's and 80's.)

 

Marvel was also pumping out these Limited Series like crazy, going so far as to release editions of second-stringers like Iceman, Falcon and Beast. It was a real fad at the time, and Wolvie and Punisher, due to their immense popularity, just happened to sell the best and create a demand for back issues. That popularity didn't just materialize out of nowhere, but changing trends in publishing exposed it.

 

Readers were NOT saying "Wow, who is this cool Punisher character I've never heard of" but instead "Thank God, Marvel finally gave Punisher his own mag". It was the same story with Wolverine - a lot of pent-up demand to see him appear solo.

 

Wolverine was one of THE most popular characters through the CA, but didn't even get his own series until 1988. Same with the Punisher. Why? Because publishing trends changed yet again, and in the late-80's and 1990's, EVERYONE got their own book.

 

So to state that Punisher and Wolverine were not popular until after their Limited Series is pretty simplistic to say the least. The characters were always popular, but Marvel just evolved in how they used and promoted them.

[Jayman]

Bah.

 

1. Usagi Yojimbo

2. Usagi Yojimbo

3. Sandman

4. Venom

5. The Tick

6. Beta Ray Bill

 

Didn't you get a full run of Miracleman yet?

[Bonds25]

Concrete!

 

[supapimp]

frank miller reintroduced the punisher in DD 182-184, then after that the mini series came out by mike zeck which sent the punisher & ASM 129 into the stratosphere.

[october]

Bah.

 

1. Usagi Yojimbo

2. Usagi Yojimbo

3. Sandman

4. Venom

5. The Tick

6. Beta Ray Bill

 

Didn't you get a full run of Miracleman yet?

 

Yeah, I read the first ten issues. I didn't really care for it. {commence slamming}

[joe_collector]

frank miller reintroduced the punisher in DD 182-184, then after that the mini series came out by mike zeck which sent the punisher & ASM 129 into the stratosphere.

 

Sorry, but that's incorrect. It was the sportscard collectors invading the market circa 1988 or so that caused virtually all late-SA and BA first appearances to skyrocket. Without those guys creating a "rookie card" mentality, ASM 129 and many others might never have broken out.

 

Like I said before, when the Punisher mini came out, the #1 issue was worth MORE than ASM 129.

 

I know it seems strange to us in 2006, but that's the way it was in the mid-80's. Everyone was buying cases of each #1 issue, and Micronauts #1, Ka-Zar #1, GI Joe #1 and others were the "hot ticket" for the future.

 

You guys really don't need a history lesson do you?

[Norrin_Radd]

In my opinion, we'll never see another character at Marvel or DC that has the popularity of a Punisher or Wolverine, just as we have not seen one for the past 32 years.

 

Yes, 32 years.

 

There have been several characters as popular since Wolverine debuted. Plus, Wolverine isn't that great anyway.

[joe_collector]

There have been several characters as popular since Wolverine debuted.

 

I'd love to know what they are. Wolverine and Punisher stand alone in the Marvel DC characters over the past 30+ years. Both have headlined multiple books, their first apps are among the most popular back issues, and they are part of major comic book movie franchises.

 

What other new Marvel or DC character can match that record?

[FlyingDonut]

There have been several characters as popular since Wolverine debuted.

 

I'd love to know what they are. Wolverine and Punisher stand alone in the Marvel DC characters over the past 30+ years. Both have headlined multiple books, their first apps are among the most popular back issues, and they are part of major comic book movie franchises.

 

What other new Marvel or DC character can match that record?

 

In the aggregate, the X-Men.

[joe_collector]

In the aggregate, the X-Men.

 

I don't like that example, since the *concept* of the X-Men was done in the 1960's and the 1970's iteration was just a new team. Same Prof X, same school, same team concept, same mutants, just different members, the most important of all being Wolverine.

 

If Wolverine did not happen to be a founding member of the New X-Men, then I'd be more willing to accept it.

[Timulty]

Dream of the Endless, Death of the Endless and John Constantine. Last time, I checked Ole JC in Hellblazer is still going strong.

[awe4one]

Dream of the Endless, Death of the Endless and John Constantine. Last time, I checked Ole JC in Hellblazer is still going strong.

 

Of these examples, only Death may have some widespread appeal. Regardless, the appeal of all of these characters pales in comparison to Wolverine or Punisher.

 

Not their fault mind you...all of these are stuck in a publisher (Vertigo) with a built in niche reading audience...

 

Jim

[awe4one]

I know I'm going to catch hell for this...but Cable had great potential before being overexposed...

 

Jim

[joe_collector]

I know I'm going to catch hell for this...but Cable had great potential before being overexposed...

 

I totally agree, and he was actually the closest to Wolverine of any new character. Unfortunately, due to the different era, his origin was outlined quickly, the characters was over-exposed and then interest just died off.

 

If Punisher or Wolverine came out in the late-80's, neither of them would be popular, because the "man with a mysterious past" part would not exist, as their origins would be done 5 months after they first appeared.