Latest Scandal! Comic Book Dealer Disbarred As Lawyer!!!!

[Dad&Son-migration]

Pardon me folks, but let me see if I have the gist of this correctly: someone is trying to compare some lawyer who got nailed for blowing his clients' settlement dough on his own personal stuff with the legitimacy of Matt's pressing comics?!?!?!?!?!?!? Jesus H Christ have you people lost your F'ing minds?? That's about the stupidest thing I have ever heard.

 

The lawyer got what he deserved, and if he regrets his actions, then fine, but that will stick with him for the rest of his life. As far as trusting him as a comic book dealer, no thanks. Why would I risk doing biz with a fraudster? No need to; there are plenty of other places to snag books from.

 

As far as Matt Nelson's business: I personally see nothing wrong with pressing books; there is no alteration to the original book itself, and that's what really matters. And OBVIOUSLY the gang at CGC feel the same way. All of us old-time collector/dealers can't be wrong; it must be the hoity-toity "investors" who are clueless on this one. Matt found a great little niche and had the balls and smarts to go for it, and I applaud him for the innovation. If I stick my spine rolled ASM 5 under a 1000 pounds of stuff out in my garage to "straighten" it out, has it altered the ORIGINAL paper in any way? Of course not. It's a dumb argument....that's all.

 

Wow, it's like a message was sent out on the Vested-Interest Message Service and voila, All Those With Vested Interests immediately closed ranks. Very impressive! Could you guys sweat a little more?

 

By the way, with respect to the part of your message that I've put in bold, don't presume to tell us what matters when it comes to collecting comics, and we won't tell you either, okay?

 

Since when? Ever since I started reading these boards you have done exactly that.

 

Speaking of closing ranks. You and your cronies are just not used to the ones you pick on having allies as well, with the cahones to call BS and hypocrisy where it needs to be called.

 

Damn.. Bill you're full of fire tonight.. I like it !!! Man.. I like this guy...

 

Thanks bro. I've held my tongue long enough. There are plenty of others on the boards that feel the same way as I do about these guys. Plenty. Many of them have contacted me tonight to let me know. And contrary to their belief, I didn't even know most of the ones who sent me messages of support.

 

I'd wager that most folks tire of the tactics they employ and for the sake of civility have not fired back. I understand that, and was doing the same thing. I have just had my fill of it.

 

Well let loose and fight the good fight ... this industry is pure politics and the little people, like myself, need some strong voices.

[tb]

I Back Bill!

 

So do I.

[MrBedrock]

I guess this is the best place to ask this as there is no Manufactured Gold thread any longer. What do most of you have a problem with, pressing itself, or the lack of disclosure. I personally have no problem with pressing. And I will always disclose pressing (here's the tricky part) if asked. I always disclose restoration. I don't consider pressing restoration. If I know a book is pressed and it is important enough to a buyer to ask, I tell. If a buyer doesn't ask, and later (and I don't care how much later) is unhappy he is more than welcome to return that purchase. In fact, just so all of you know, if you are ever unhappy with a purchase from us FOR ANY REASON return it. You don't have to tell me why. (Get it, you don't have to disclose to me your reason!) But I will probably ask.

[DeeDee-migration]

Bill is a trustworthy and genuinely honorable person, I'm inclined to agree with anything he says on any topic

[Dad&Son-migration]

I guess this is the best place to ask this as there is no Manufactured Gold thread any longer. What do most of you have a problem with, pressing itself, or the lack of disclosure. I personally have no problem with pressing. And I will always disclose pressing (here's the tricky part) if asked. I always disclose restoration. I don't consider pressing restoration. If I know a book is pressed and it is important enough to a buyer to ask, I tell. If a buyer doesn't ask, and later (and I don't care how much later) is unhappy he is more than welcome to return that purchase. In fact, just so all of you know, if you are ever unhappy with a purchase from us FOR ANY REASON return it. You don't have to tell me why. (Get it, you don't have to disclose to me your reason!) But I will probably ask.

 

That's an interesting twist to rebuttle with.. I like it..

I fully shoot from the hip on this, and don't care if I burn bridges anymore.... probably because I have a career and don't need to make a livelihood on selling books so I can respect the position that dealers take on being hush.. But damn.. pressing has been around for at least 20+ years and the minority control the majority in this hobby.. I would like to take a qualifed stance on saying it's not the worst thing to happen to the hobby... why.. because it's been happening long before we wised up to it. I love.. frickin' love the way a book looks after a good pressing because I'm anal about perfection and desire it...difference is.. I don't need to make heavy cash from it.. ultimately it's not the people doing work to the books that set the price... it's "us" ... the simple collectors who want the best from a book when we look to complete titles...I will never have anything to lose when it comes to collecting comics.. it's the memories that keep me going with it.

[Sid]

Although the reason for this thread seems to be getting twisted, like majority of any good discussions in this place, the original post made me very upset. I don't quite enjoy the idea of people like this running around. It seems a little disturbing to know, you can't trust someone you are forced to put faith in. Either way, the last few hundred posts have been entertaining. I don't want to 'pick' sides because both parties have people I've come to respect. Everyone that has shed an opinion has a right to it, and I also fully support Matt in what he does. He's been very kind and friendly to me and above all professional which is all that matters. If people can put faith in CGC for grades and resto. but can't fathom the idea of someone who is just following their guidelines then I'd suggest not buying any slabbed books at all. Okay, carry on.

[Scheradon]

I guess this is the best place to ask this as there is no Manufactured Gold thread any longer. What do most of you have a problem with, pressing itself, or the lack of disclosure. I personally have no problem with pressing. And I will always disclose pressing (here's the tricky part) if asked. I always disclose restoration. I don't consider pressing restoration. If I know a book is pressed and it is important enough to a buyer to ask, I tell. If a buyer doesn't ask, and later (and I don't care how much later) is unhappy he is more than welcome to return that purchase. In fact, just so all of you know, if you are ever unhappy with a purchase from us FOR ANY REASON return it. You don't have to tell me why. (Get it, you don't have to disclose to me your reason!) But I will probably ask.

 

Personally, I don't really care for pressing, but I know it's prevalent and not going to go away. What I'd really like to see is up front disclosure as I discussed in my response to Dad & Son.

 

Many buyers, don't know to ask about pressing. Many times, there isn't always time to ask. You see a 9.8 with a reasonable BIN and to ask means waiting for a response that may or may not come before the book gets snatched up.

 

Before I joined these boards, I had already been buying 9.8s for some time. I was under some vien of naivity that had me believing that CGC noted pressing and put those books in purple labels. Why? Because I had remembered seeing "pressed" on a purple label. I didn't know about there being two different types of pressing (one being okay and the other not). I had no idea how they were able to detect it, but trusted that these experts had some microscopic way of doing it I guess.

 

I soon found out how blissfully ignorant I had been in this hobby. That feeling leaves a bad taste in a collectors mouth. It's a feeling of being had.

 

This is why I say Paul (Dad & Son) will only have happy customers. There are no surprises. Not everybody cares, but why take the chance of scorning someone who does or will?

 

BTW: I have purchased one book from you not too long ago. It was a Machine Man #3 CGC 9.8 white. In the spirit of asking...Was it pressed?

[MrBedrock]

I guess this is the best place to ask this as there is no Manufactured Gold thread any longer. What do most of you have a problem with, pressing itself, or the lack of disclosure. I personally have no problem with pressing. And I will always disclose pressing (here's the tricky part) if asked. I always disclose restoration. I don't consider pressing restoration. If I know a book is pressed and it is important enough to a buyer to ask, I tell. If a buyer doesn't ask, and later (and I don't care how much later) is unhappy he is more than welcome to return that purchase. In fact, just so all of you know, if you are ever unhappy with a purchase from us FOR ANY REASON return it. You don't have to tell me why. (Get it, you don't have to disclose to me your reason!) But I will probably ask.

 

Personally, I don't really care for pressing, but I know it's prevalent and not going to go away. What I'd really like to see is up front disclosure as I discussed in my response to Dad & Son.

 

Many buyers, don't know to ask about pressing. Many times, there isn't always time to ask. You see a 9.8 with a reasonable BIN and to ask means waiting for a response that may or may not come before the book gets snatched up.

 

Before I joined these boards, I had already been buying 9.8s for some time. I was under some vien of naivity that had me believing that CGC noted pressing and put those books in purple labels. Why? Because I had remembered seeing "pressed" on a purple label. I didn't know about there being two different types of pressing (one being okay and the other not). I had no idea how they were able to detect it, but trusted that these experts had some microscopic way of doing it I guess.

 

I soon found out how blissfully ignorant I had been in this hobby. That feeling leaves a bad taste in a collectors mouth. It's a feeling of being had.

 

This is why I say Paul (Dad & Son) will only have happy customers. There are no surprises. Not everybody cares, but why take the chance of scorning someone who does or will?

 

BTW: I have purchased one book from you not too long ago. It was a Machine Man #3 CGC 9.8 white. In the spirit of asking...Was it pressed?

 

Thanks for asking, and I promise you it wasn't. One of my personal policies is that I don't feel a book under $1000 is worth pressing (unless it's Golden Age and something for my collection and really needs it). I don't know how to do it, and the economics of paying for a pressing and grading fees, along with my original purchase costs, only add up on something expensive.

[toro]

Admit it you *spoon*ing dealer you pressed that book!

[Red Hook]

Thanks bro. I've held my tongue long enough. There are plenty of others on the boards that feel the same way as I do about these guys. Plenty. Many of them have contacted me tonight to let me know. And contrary to their belief, I didn't even know most of the ones who sent me messages of support.

 

I'd wager that most folks tire of the tactics they employ and for the sake of civility have not fired back. I understand that, and was doing the same thing. I have just had my fill of it.

 

That's too bad, because you're going to keep getting more of it. And you're going to keep hearing more about it. Whether you like it or not doesn't make a whit of difference.

 

Have you actually read through the Manufactured Gold thread? Have you checked out the Gallery of Disclosure? I'm sure you haven't. Don't let the facts get in the way of your outrage.

 

Distort the opposition's arguments all you want. Act outraged. Act fed up.

 

It doesn't matter. My concern is for the buyer. Not for the dealers with an overblown sense of entitlement. Sorry to pisss in your little pond.

 

You're more than a day late on this. You're about a year late. If you have anything of substance, we're all still waiting. He's actually done a much better job of stating his position on these boards than you're obviously capable of doing. With friends like you, Matt doesn't need any detractors.

 

I do want to thank you for making me realize that there is a lot more work to be done to get the word out to the general public about the deceptive practices going on in the hobby. You seem to think that an attempt at a personal attack is a substitute for debate. It isn't. It simply reeks of desperation.

[ShoNuff-migration]

[FFB]

Thanks bro. I've held my tongue long enough. There are plenty of others on the boards that feel the same way as I do about these guys. Plenty. Many of them have contacted me tonight to let me know. And contrary to their belief, I didn't even know most of the ones who sent me messages of support.

 

I'd wager that most folks tire of the tactics they employ and for the sake of civility have not fired back. I understand that, and was doing the same thing. I have just had my fill of it.

 

That's too bad, because you're going to keep getting more of it. And you're going to keep hearing more about it. Whether you like it or not doesn't make a whit of difference.

 

Have you actually read through the Manufactured Gold thread? Have you checked out the Gallery of Disclosure? I'm sure you haven't. Don't let the facts get in the way of your outrage.

 

Distort the opposition's arguments all you want. Act outraged. Act fed up.

 

It doesn't matter. My concern is for the buyer. Not for the dealers with an overblown sense of entitlement. Sorry to pisss in your little pond.

 

You're more than a day late on this. You're about a year late. If you have anything of substance, we're all still waiting. He's actually done a much better job of stating his position on these boards than you're obviously capable of doing. With friends like you, Matt doesn't need any detractors.

 

I do want to thank you for making me realize that there is a lot more work to be done to get the word out to the general public about the deceptive practices going on in the hobby. You seem to think that an attempt at a personal attack is a substitute for debate. It isn't. It simply reeks of desperation.

 

Speaking of the Gallery of Disclosure and deceptive practices, the Gallery of Disclosure contains quite a few mistakes (including false positives) which I pointed out at least twice on the boards, plus again in an email to an NOD member. I notice that none of the mistakes have been corrected. Am I surprised? Nope. I guess at this point, the "deception" apparent in the Gallery is intentional?

 

If you guys are going to parade the Gallery of Disclosure around as some educational tool, you owe it to the viewers to make sure you're making accurate calls. Because right now, you're not. And you're doing that to other people's books. And yet you don't care? Why not? If it was YOUR book falsely identified as being restored by the Gallery, would you be so careless about making a call like that? I'm guessing not. And yet the "collectors" (remember? the people whose side you are supposedly on!! ) who own those books are having their books misidentified as having restoration on them -- and when those mistakes are pointed out, what do you guys do? You ignore it. My, what a huge champion of the collectors you are!

 

P.S. I support Bill too.

[Red Hook]

Yep, put the knife down Bill and back away from the computer.

[Ze-man]

Personally I hope there will come a day when the word zealot or fraud need not be mentioned when we talk about pressing. Both are too extreme, but both words obviously fit the bill depending on ones understanding or perspective of the situation.

 

Everyone wants disclosure, yet once disclosed, that disclosure is pointless unless the buyer turned seller discloses it to the person they are selling it to. (that is the tricky part)

 

I dont think anyone here is really overly zealous in their attempts at discovering what was done to a book,they want information nothing more. But at the same time comics are a business, and the bottom line obviously has to be acknowledged as part of the selling equation.

 

Both sides exist, but as time goes on both sides should try to understand and perhaps respect the others perspective. People chase HG comics, a 9.4 comic is a kittens breath away from being a 9.8. Whether you unfurl an outer edge with your finger, or a press. It's all manipulation and smacks of Scott's argument about what the difference was if you wiped off a smudge with your finger or un-bended a crease with your hand or a press. I argued it was intention, and tools. But in the end.. both intentions were the same. Only the tools were better, and safer. So in the end why disclose one and not the other? Both were manipulated.

 

And lastly Bill was perfectly within his right to call Brad out for being hypocritical, and Brad was well within his right to tell him he was batty. What I took away from the exchange was personal relationships obviously have a huge impact on how one might view a given situation. And that in itself should be commended, be it Brad standing by Doug, or Bill by Matt.

 

Both stood up for their convictions.

 

Ze-

[Red Hook]

Who did you send those emails to?

[FFB]

Who did you send those emails to?

 

I sent an email to Brent and posted twice, both times in threads that YOU read.

[Red Hook]

Who did you send those emails to?

 

I sent an email to Brent and posted twice, both times in threads that YOU read.

 

Links? Sorry, but I've had you on ignore for months.

[Davenport]

I guess this is the best place to ask this as there is no Manufactured Gold thread any longer. What do most of you have a problem with, pressing itself, or the lack of disclosure.

Pressing is what it is, an alteration. Disclosed, a consumer can decide what value they place on the alteration. If a seller withholds secret facts to tilt a transaction in their favor, that transaction is no longer mutual. It's predatory.

[Red Hook]

I guess this is the best place to ask this as there is no Manufactured Gold thread any longer. What do most of you have a problem with, pressing itself, or the lack of disclosure.

Pressing is what it is, an alteration. Disclosed, a consumer can decide what value they place on the alteration. If a seller withholds secret facts to tilt a transaction in their favor, that transaction is no longer mutual. It's predatory.

 

Exactly. Bill probably missed my recent post where I mentioned that I'd asked Matt whether a particular Green River book he had up on Ebay had been pressed. He got back to me and told me that it had. I threw in a couple of pretty healthy bids on it anyway, the point being that I now had the info I needed to make a choice. I didn't win it, but would have added it to my collection with no problems if I had.

 

But the distinctions of that position are completely lost on these other guys, who think the call for the disclosure of pressing and othe forms of restoration is some threat to their livelihood. Talk about myopic.

[MrBedrock]

Thanks bro. I've held my tongue long enough. There are plenty of others on the boards that feel the same way as I do about these guys. Plenty. Many of them have contacted me tonight to let me know. And contrary to their belief, I didn't even know most of the ones who sent me messages of support.

 

I'd wager that most folks tire of the tactics they employ and for the sake of civility have not fired back. I understand that, and was doing the same thing. I have just had my fill of it.

 

That's too bad, because you're going to keep getting more of it. And you're going to keep hearing more about it. Whether you like it or not doesn't make a whit of difference.

 

Have you actually read through the Manufactured Gold thread? Have you checked out the Gallery of Disclosure? I'm sure you haven't. Don't let the facts get in the way of your outrage.

 

Distort the opposition's arguments all you want. Act outraged. Act fed up.

 

It doesn't matter. My concern is for the buyer. Not for the dealers with an overblown sense of entitlement. Sorry to pisss in your little pond.

 

You're more than a day late on this. You're about a year late. If you have anything of substance, we're all still waiting. He's actually done a much better job of stating his position on these boards than you're obviously capable of doing. With friends like you, Matt doesn't need any detractors.

 

I do want to thank you for making me realize that there is a lot more work to be done to get the word out to the general public about the deceptive practices going on in the hobby. You seem to think that an attempt at a personal attack is a substitute for debate. It isn't. It simply reeks of desperation.

 

And who are you? I'm just asking as someone newer to the boards. You seem to talk alot and act with some kind of authority. I'm wondering how and where you got it.