Latest Scandal! Comic Book Dealer Disbarred As Lawyer!!!!

[Red Hook]

There's nothing specific in that thread at all. And of course you'd have to buy the fact that Scott knows infinitely more about restoration than anyone else on the boards. But then, Scott knows infinitely more about everything than anyone else on the boards. That's why we love him.

 

That isn't the thread I was talking about. And I clearly know more about restoration than anyone who is deciding to put these books on the Gallery of Misinformation.

 

It may be clear to you. But that's all that matters, right?

 

Scott, don't you get just a little tired once in a while of playing your imaginary game of king-of-the-hill? I mean for even a minute? I know for a fact you're over ten years old. Give it a rest.

[FFB]

There's nothing specific in that thread at all. And of course you'd have to buy the fact that Scott knows infinitely more about restoration than anyone else on the boards. But then, Scott knows infinitely more about everything than anyone else on the boards. That's why we love him.

 

That isn't the thread I was talking about. And I clearly know more about restoration than anyone who is deciding to put these books on the Gallery of Misinformation.

 

It may be clear to you. But that's all that matters, right?

 

Scott, don't you get just a little tired once in a while of playing your imaginary game of king-of-the-hill? I mean for even a minute? I know for a fact you're over ten years old. Give it a rest.

 

Nice deflection. Several eliminated NHL teams could use a guy like you. You're a master of misdirection when you don't like the issue and/or question.

[Scheradon]

There's nothing specific in that thread at all. And of course you'd have to buy the fact that Scott knows infinitely more about restoration than anyone else on the boards. But then, Scott knows infinitely more about everything than anyone else on the boards. That's why we love him.

 

Here is another. Normally I wouldn't bother, but I would rather hear a debate than bickering over who has to use the search function.

 

http://boards.collectors-society.com/sho...rt=251&vc=1

 

I agree with Brad on the first thread. There was nothing of substance in there.

 

I do remember this second one and it was the one I was basically referring to in my previous post.

[Scheradon]

There's nothing specific in that thread at all. And of course you'd have to buy the fact that Scott knows infinitely more about restoration than anyone else on the boards. But then, Scott knows infinitely more about everything than anyone else on the boards. That's why we love him.

 

That isn't the thread I was talking about. And I clearly know more about restoration than anyone who is deciding to put these books on the Gallery of Misinformation. Let me guess -- you're one of the committee members? You could fill Lake Michigan with what you don't know about restoration.

 

Calling it the "Gallery of Misinformation" is misinformation.

[FFB]

There's nothing specific in that thread at all. And of course you'd have to buy the fact that Scott knows infinitely more about restoration than anyone else on the boards. But then, Scott knows infinitely more about everything than anyone else on the boards. That's why we love him.

 

Here is another. Normally I wouldn't bother, but I would rather hear a debate than bickering over who has to use the search function.

 

http://boards.collectors-society.com/sho...rt=251&vc=1

 

I agree with Brad on the first thread. There was nothing of substance in there.

 

I do remember this second one and it was the one I was basically referring to in my previous post.

 

Leaving aside the fact that I already said that isn't the thread where I detailed the problems with the Gallery, if you are going to interject yourself as judge over the controversy, why don't you look at the Gallery itself and see if you agree with the calls made there.

[FFB]

There's nothing specific in that thread at all. And of course you'd have to buy the fact that Scott knows infinitely more about restoration than anyone else on the boards. But then, Scott knows infinitely more about everything than anyone else on the boards. That's why we love him.

 

That isn't the thread I was talking about. And I clearly know more about restoration than anyone who is deciding to put these books on the Gallery of Misinformation. Let me guess -- you're one of the committee members? You could fill Lake Michigan with what you don't know about restoration.

 

Calling it the "Gallery of Misinformation" is misinformation.

 

No, it is appropriate and accurate.

[Johnny G]

Well, I'd have to say that this thread was an interesting read! Thanks to all those who participated.

 

John

[Scrooge]

I guess this is the best place to ask this as there is no Manufactured Gold thread any longer. What do most of you have a problem with, pressing itself, or the lack of disclosure. I personally have no problem with pressing. And I will always disclose pressing (here's the tricky part) if asked. I always disclose restoration. I don't consider pressing restoration. If I know a book is pressed and it is important enough to a buyer to ask, I tell. If a buyer doesn't ask, and later (and I don't care how much later) is unhappy he is more than welcome to return that purchase. In fact, just so all of you know, if you are ever unhappy with a purchase from us FOR ANY REASON return it. You don't have to tell me why. (Get it, you don't have to disclose to me your reason!) But I will probably ask.

 

Richard, I guess that's part of why some people are up in arms (apart from the fact that they fire up in a split second about a lot of topics) but why not make it a policy to disclose always? That's the part that would bother me. Since you're willing to disclose if asked, why not just disclose? From your end as a dealer, do you consider that disclosing as a default has an adverse economic impact on how much you could sell the book? Is that a secondary reason to the fact that you don't consider pressing restoration? From my perspective, it seems that the pressing is not restoration position is simply a straw man to the fact that a disclosed-as-pressed copy might not be as desirable.

 

Let me rephrase that:

 

Case 1: you don't disclose, the buyer does not ask, the buyer does not care about pressing: no harm no foul, everyone is happy

 

Case 2: you don't disclose, the buyer asks, the buyer cares about pressing: the buyer is informed, no harm no foul, everyone is happy

 

Case 3: you don't disclose, the buyer does not ask, the buyer cares about pressing: AHAH, the buyer realizes the book was pressed, wasn't told and is pissed and then posts about it on CGC and drags your company's name in the mud because you slighted him (even though, I agree, if said-customer cares about pressing, they should ask about it).

 

CASE 4: you DISCLOSE, it doesn't matter if the buyer cares or not, there is NEVER any issue when all are INFORMED.

 

It seems to me that Case 4 is the most hassle- and headache-free. Therefore I come to the conclusion that there is something that holds you back from adopting Case 4 as your business model and I would appreciate if you could articulate your reticence for adopting that Case 4 as policy.

 

Thanks,

 

Scrooge.

[MrBedrock]

I'm not an authority. I just have a very clear position on all this. I am a long time collector, a commercial artist and an educator. I'm a strong consumer advocate. What else do you want to know?

 

How long have you been actively involved in the hobby, are you a member of any comic related groups (NOD, AACC, Overstreet Advisor etc.)? Which dealers have you had good and bad experiences with? I don't mean to sound like an inquisitor (though I am inquisitive!) I am really just curious how you formed your views on this segment of the hobby. They seem fairly strident to me and I wonder where they are coming from.

 

Richard, while Brad and I have had our ups and downs lately. He is a stand up guy that says what is on his mind. While I do not agree with him and how he may voice it all the time I still read what he has to say and add it to the mix. Rest assured, he is a real guy known by many standing up for what he thinks is right.

 

Now I guess the next question is.. Who the f am I?

 

Ze-

 

I am really not questioning anyones integrity. What I like to find out about people in comics is how they come to it. Collector, investor (in the best sense of the word), fan, etc. Have you had a bad deal at shows, by east coast dealers, by west coast dealers, or Texas dealers. Did you start collecting at the knee of an especially vocal comic shop owner. All of these types of things go into your perspective on the hobby. Those of us who were around and collecting in the '70's have a different perspective on the issues of restoration than those who have been collecting since the '90's for example. It took a while for us to realize that stuff could be restored, then a while longer to realize the implications. I started working at a comic shop in '77. There was an industrial strength paper cutter in the back room for the purpose of trimming off ragged edges. We didn't know any better. Now, with the purple label, discourse, and education, these things don't happen (Ewert got caught). And don't compare pressing to trimming.......I just can't get a grasp on where the passionate opinions concerning pressing come from.

[Red Hook]

There's nothing specific in that thread at all. And of course you'd have to buy the fact that Scott knows infinitely more about restoration than anyone else on the boards. But then, Scott knows infinitely more about everything than anyone else on the boards. That's why we love him.

 

That isn't the thread I was talking about. And I clearly know more about restoration than anyone who is deciding to put these books on the Gallery of Misinformation.

 

It may be clear to you. But that's all that matters, right?

 

Scott, don't you get just a little tired once in a while of playing your imaginary game of king-of-the-hill? I mean for even a minute? I know for a fact you're over ten years old. Give it a rest.

 

Nice deflection. Several eliminated NHL teams could use a guy like you. You're a master of misdirection when you don't like the issue and/or question.

 

Talk about off-topic. I think the Manufactured Gold thread and the Gallery of Disclosure are of infinite value. Pick them apart if you want, but there isn't anything else out there that makes it as clear how far reaching the game is being played. It's not complicated. If you don't agree with the findings, all power to you. They are clear examples showing what is going on.

 

I may not be a self-proclaimed restoration expert like you (who to my knowledge has never restored a single book)....I'm simply a collector who finds the lengths to which certain parties will go to squeeze another buck out of a book simply amazing.

 

You know, seriously...for a guy who's a lawyer....I've always considered you an incredibly poor debater. Insults are not a debate. Throwing tantrums is not a debate. You simply try too hard Scott. You always seem to be sweating it and popping out of your seat. There not a bit of grace in your postings. You just come across as our own CGC Board Rumpelstiltskin. But we love you anyway.

 

[Red Hook]

 

I am really not questioning anyones integrity. What I like to find out about people in comics is how they come to it. Collector, investor (in the best sense of the word), fan, etc. Have you had a bad deal at shows, by east coast dealers, by west coast dealers, or Texas dealers. Did you start collecting at the knee of an especially vocal comic shop owner. All of these types of things go into your perspective on the hobby. Those of us who were around and collecting in the '70's have a different perspective on the issues of restoration than those who have been collecting since the '90's for example. It took a while for us to realize that stuff could be restored, then a while longer to realize the implications. I started working at a comic shop in '77. There was an industrial strength paper cutter in the back room for the purpose of trimming off ragged edges. We didn't know any better. Now, with the purple label, discourse, and education, these things don't happen (Ewert got caught). And don't compare pressing to trimming.......I just can't get a grasp on where the passionate opinions concerning pressing come from.

 

It's not about the pressing, it's about the disclosure.

 

It's not about the pressing, it's about the disclosure.

 

It's not about the pressing, it's about the disclosure.

 

It's not about the pressing, it's about the disclosure.

 

It's not about the pressing, it's about the disclosure.

 

[Red Hook]

There's nothing specific in that thread at all. And of course you'd have to buy the fact that Scott knows infinitely more about restoration than anyone else on the boards. But then, Scott knows infinitely more about everything than anyone else on the boards. That's why we love him.

 

That isn't the thread I was talking about. And I clearly know more about restoration than anyone who is deciding to put these books on the Gallery of Misinformation. Let me guess -- you're one of the committee members? You could fill Lake Michigan with what you don't know about restoration.

 

Calling it the "Gallery of Misinformation" is misinformation.

 

No, it is appropriate and accurate.

 

Not true. It's a distortion. But it doesn't really matter what you think. As long as people keep checking it out I'm as happy as can be.

[FFB]

There's nothing specific in that thread at all. And of course you'd have to buy the fact that Scott knows infinitely more about restoration than anyone else on the boards. But then, Scott knows infinitely more about everything than anyone else on the boards. That's why we love him.

 

That isn't the thread I was talking about. And I clearly know more about restoration than anyone who is deciding to put these books on the Gallery of Misinformation.

 

It may be clear to you. But that's all that matters, right?

 

Scott, don't you get just a little tired once in a while of playing your imaginary game of king-of-the-hill? I mean for even a minute? I know for a fact you're over ten years old. Give it a rest.

 

Nice deflection. Several eliminated NHL teams could use a guy like you. You're a master of misdirection when you don't like the issue and/or question.

 

Talk about off-topic. I think the Manufactured Gold thread and the Gallery of Disclosure are of infinite value. Pick them apart if you want, but there isn't anything else out there that makes it as clear how far reaching the game is being played. It's not complicated. If you don't agree with the findings, all power to you. They are clear examples showing what is going on.

 

I may not be a self-proclaimed restoration expert like you (who to my knowledge has never restored a single book)....I'm simply a collector who finds the lengths to which certain parties will go to squeeze another buck out of a book simply amazing.

 

You know, seriously...for a guy who's a lawyer....I've always considered you an incredibly poor debater. Insults are not a debate. Throwing tantrums is not a debate. You simply try too hard Scott. You always seem to be sweating it and popping out of your seat. There not a bit of grace in your postings. You just come across as our own CGC Board Rumpelstiltskin. But we love you anyway.

 

 

As usual, you're dead wrong about many things (including my hands-on experience with restoration). The incredible irony in your post here is that you name the very thread where I pointed out the deficiencies in the Gallery of Misinformation.

 

Your crack about debates and personal attacks makes me laugh. Considering that this thread was revived in order to highlight your hypocrisy, your comments about me are just another perfect example of that.

[MrBedrock]

I guess this is the best place to ask this as there is no Manufactured Gold thread any longer. What do most of you have a problem with, pressing itself, or the lack of disclosure. I personally have no problem with pressing. And I will always disclose pressing (here's the tricky part) if asked. I always disclose restoration. I don't consider pressing restoration. If I know a book is pressed and it is important enough to a buyer to ask, I tell. If a buyer doesn't ask, and later (and I don't care how much later) is unhappy he is more than welcome to return that purchase. In fact, just so all of you know, if you are ever unhappy with a purchase from us FOR ANY REASON return it. You don't have to tell me why. (Get it, you don't have to disclose to me your reason!) But I will probably ask.

 

Richard, I guess that's part of why some people are up in arms (apart from the fact that they fire up in a split second about a lot of topics) but why not make it a policy to disclose always? That's the part that would bother me. Since you're willing to disclose if asked, why not just disclose? From your end as a dealer, do you consider that disclosing as a default has an adverse economic impact on how much you could sell the book? Is that a secondary reason to the fact that you don't consider pressing restoration? From my perspective, it seems that the pressing is not restoration position is simply a straw man to the fact that a disclosed-as-pressed copy might not be as desirable.

 

Let me rephrase that:

 

Case 1: you don't disclose, the buyer does not ask, the buyer does not care about pressing: no harm no foul, everyone is happy

 

Case 2: you don't disclose, the buyer asks, the buyer cares about pressing: the buyer is informed, no harm no foul, everyone is happy

 

Case 3: you don't disclose, the buyer does not ask, the buyer cares about pressing: AHAH, the buyer realizes the book was pressed, wasn't told and is pissed and then posts about it on CGC and drags your company's name in the mud because you slighted him (even though, I agree, if said-customer cares about pressing, they should ask about it).

 

CASE 4: you DISCLOSE, it doesn't matter if the buyer cares or not, there is NEVER any issue when all are INFORMED.

 

It seems to me that Case 4 is the most hassle- and headache-free. Therefore I come to the conclusion that there is something that holds you back from adopting Case 4 as your business model and I would appreciate if you could articulate your reticence for adopting that Case 4 as policy.

 

Thanks,

 

Scrooge.

 

I know this may sound lame, but one of the reasons is that the way our data base is set up for our web-site we never considered needing a field for "pressed/not-pressed". Some would say put that info in your notes section, except that's where I put my restoration info. As I stated, I don't consider pressing a restoration issue.

Honestly, I have maybe five books total that I have sold that were pressed (in the spirit of disclosure, I have had about 75 books in my collection pass through Matt's factory). In all cases, the fact that they were pressed came up at some point prior to sale, either at the buyer's request or my initiating the conversation. So, frankly, all of this is moot. But I dig the discourse.

[FFB]

There's nothing specific in that thread at all. And of course you'd have to buy the fact that Scott knows infinitely more about restoration than anyone else on the boards. But then, Scott knows infinitely more about everything than anyone else on the boards. That's why we love him.

 

That isn't the thread I was talking about. And I clearly know more about restoration than anyone who is deciding to put these books on the Gallery of Misinformation. Let me guess -- you're one of the committee members? You could fill Lake Michigan with what you don't know about restoration.

 

Calling it the "Gallery of Misinformation" is misinformation.

 

No, it is appropriate and accurate.

 

Not true. It's a distortion. But it doesn't really matter what you think. As long as people keep checking it out I'm as happy as can be.

 

But of course! Accurate or not, as long as your horn is being tooted, you're happy!

[mr.schomburg]

I guess this is the best place to ask this as there is no Manufactured Gold thread any longer. What do most of you have a problem with, pressing itself, or the lack of disclosure. I personally have no problem with pressing. And I will always disclose pressing (here's the tricky part) if asked. I always disclose restoration. I don't consider pressing restoration. If I know a book is pressed and it is important enough to a buyer to ask, I tell. If a buyer doesn't ask, and later (and I don't care how much later) is unhappy he is more than welcome to return that purchase. In fact, just so all of you know, if you are ever unhappy with a purchase from us FOR ANY REASON return it. You don't have to tell me why. (Get it, you don't have to disclose to me your reason!) But I will probably ask.

 

Richard, I guess that's part of why some people are up in arms (apart from the fact that they fire up in a split second about a lot of topics) but why not make it a policy to disclose always? That's the part that would bother me. Since you're willing to disclose if asked, why not just disclose? From your end as a dealer, do you consider that disclosing as a default has an adverse economic impact on how much you could sell the book? Is that a secondary reason to the fact that you don't consider pressing restoration? From my perspective, it seems that the pressing is not restoration position is simply a straw man to the fact that a disclosed-as-pressed copy might not be as desirable.

 

Let me rephrase that:

 

Case 1: you don't disclose, the buyer does not ask, the buyer does not care about pressing: no harm no foul, everyone is happy

 

Case 2: you don't disclose, the buyer asks, the buyer cares about pressing: the buyer is informed, no harm no foul, everyone is happy

 

Case 3: you don't disclose, the buyer does not ask, the buyer cares about pressing: AHAH, the buyer realizes the book was pressed, wasn't told and is pissed and then posts about it on CGC and drags your company's name in the mud because you slighted him (even though, I agree, if said-customer cares about pressing, they should ask about it).

 

CASE 4: you DISCLOSE, it doesn't matter if the buyer cares or not, there is NEVER any issue when all are INFORMED.

 

It seems to me that Case 4 is the most hassle- and headache-free. Therefore I come to the conclusion that there is something that holds you back from adopting Case 4 as your business model and I would appreciate if you could articulate your reticence for adopting that Case 4 as policy.

 

Thanks,

 

Scrooge.

 

I know this may sound lame, but one of the reasons is that the way our data base is set up for our web-site we never considered needing a field for "pressed/not-pressed". Some would say put that info in your notes section, except that's where I put my restoration info. As I stated, I don't consider pressing a restoration issue.

Honestly, I have maybe five books total that I have sold that were pressed (in the spirit of disclosure, I have had about 75 books in my collection pass through Matt's factory). In all cases, the fact that they were pressed came up at some point prior to sale, either at the buyer's request or my initiating the conversation. So, frankly, all of this is moot. But I dig the discourse.

 

I am on board with you Richard! I agree pressing is not resto, but full disclosure is never a bad idea!

[MrBedrock]

 

I am really not questioning anyones integrity. What I like to find out about people in comics is how they come to it. Collector, investor (in the best sense of the word), fan, etc. Have you had a bad deal at shows, by east coast dealers, by west coast dealers, or Texas dealers. Did you start collecting at the knee of an especially vocal comic shop owner. All of these types of things go into your perspective on the hobby. Those of us who were around and collecting in the '70's have a different perspective on the issues of restoration than those who have been collecting since the '90's for example. It took a while for us to realize that stuff could be restored, then a while longer to realize the implications. I started working at a comic shop in '77. There was an industrial strength paper cutter in the back room for the purpose of trimming off ragged edges. We didn't know any better. Now, with the purple label, discourse, and education, these things don't happen (Ewert got caught). And don't compare pressing to trimming.......I just can't get a grasp on where the passionate opinions concerning pressing come from.

 

It's not about the pressing, it's about the disclosure.

 

It's not about the pressing, it's about the disclosure.

 

It's not about the pressing, it's about the disclosure.

 

It's not about the pressing, it's about the disclosure.

 

It's not about the pressing, it's about the disclosure.

 

 

It is about pressing. If pressing weren't viewed as something bad there would not be anything to disclose.It is about pressing. If pressing weren't viewed as something bad there would not be anything to disclose.It is about pressing. If pressing weren't viewed as something bad there would not be anything to disclose.It is about pressing. If pressing weren't viewed as something bad there would not be anything to disclose.

[Scrooge]

I know this may sound lame, but one of the reasons is that the way our data base is set up for our web-site we never considered needing a field for "pressed/not-pressed". Some would say put that info in your notes section, except that's where I put my restoration info. As I stated, I don't consider pressing a restoration issue.

Honestly, I have maybe five books total that I have sold that were pressed (in the spirit of disclosure, I have had about 75 books in my collection pass through Matt's factory). In all cases, the fact that they were pressed came up at some point prior to sale, either at the buyer's request or my initiating the conversation. So, frankly, all of this is moot. But I dig the discourse.

 

Let's assume you're not you but you're Matt. The %age of books he will sell that have had pressing done is much higher than in your case. Now, for a second, let's assume that a buyer doesn't know that Matt presses a fair amount of books he sells. The buyer is not as educated as others and doesn't ask about pressing because pressing might not even be in his vocabulary. Later, the buyer is informed about pressing and that his book(s) has been pressed. I don't know about you but I know that I would care when I realize that I was not told every thing about the book I bought. Yes, it really doesn't matter that the book was pressed but entering a deal when information potentially value-affecting has been withheld is not ideal. (I would have liked to have been told that the house I bought was haunted but somehow the seller failed to mention it )

 

Anyway, I have no bones in these discussions, I simply wanted to hear your opinion / position. Thanks for taking the time to answer. Now go back and scan more of your books and post them in the Timely thread.

[Scheradon]

There's nothing specific in that thread at all. And of course you'd have to buy the fact that Scott knows infinitely more about restoration than anyone else on the boards. But then, Scott knows infinitely more about everything than anyone else on the boards. That's why we love him.

 

Here is another. Normally I wouldn't bother, but I would rather hear a debate than bickering over who has to use the search function.

 

http://boards.collectors-society.com/sho...rt=251&vc=1

 

I agree with Brad on the first thread. There was nothing of substance in there.

 

I do remember this second one and it was the one I was basically referring to in my previous post.

 

Leaving aside the fact that I already said that isn't the thread where I detailed the problems with the Gallery, if you are going to interject yourself as judge over the controversy, why don't you look at the Gallery itself and see if you agree with the calls made there.

 

I was already replying to Andy when you posted your response to Brad.

 

As usual, you trot out the heavy verbage..."interject yourself as judge..." Come on Scott. You're the one making the judgements. You're also making assumptions...as I have looked at the Gallery of Disclosure.

 

I can't tell you what was or was not done to each of those books on that list. I didn't create the list or have any hand in the descriptions of work done or possibly done. I do believe that the people who have put the work into the Gallery are knowlegeable and honest people.

 

I find it funny that you are willing to throw the baby out with the bath water by calling it the "Gallery of Misinformation" because YOU feel that there are possibly a couple of errors or unproven descriptors in it.

[MrBedrock]

I know this may sound lame, but one of the reasons is that the way our data base is set up for our web-site we never considered needing a field for "pressed/not-pressed". Some would say put that info in your notes section, except that's where I put my restoration info. As I stated, I don't consider pressing a restoration issue.

Honestly, I have maybe five books total that I have sold that were pressed (in the spirit of disclosure, I have had about 75 books in my collection pass through Matt's factory). In all cases, the fact that they were pressed came up at some point prior to sale, either at the buyer's request or my initiating the conversation. So, frankly, all of this is moot. But I dig the discourse.

 

Let's assume you're not you but you're Matt. The %age of books he will sell that have had pressing done is much higher than in your case. Now, for a second, let's assume that a buyer doesn't know that Matt presses a fair amount of books he sells. The buyer is not as educated as others and doesn't ask about pressing because pressing might not even be in his vocabulary. Later, the buyer is informed about pressing and that his book(s) has been pressed. I don't know about you but I know that I would care when I realize that I was not told every thing about the book I bought. Yes, it really doesn't matter that the book was pressed but entering a deal when information potentially value-affecting has been withheld is not ideal. (I would have liked to have been told that the house I bought was haunted but somehow the seller failed to mention it )

 

Anyway, I have no bones in these discussions, I simply wanted to hear your opinion / position. Thanks for taking the time to answer. Now go back and scan more of your books and post them in the Timely thread.

 

I think I'll take your advice. Thanks. BTW, Friday I get a bunch of books back from CGC and I will be a posting mutha. See you then.