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Bronze X-Men/Pheonix, post movie reaction?

Started by blowout,

76 posts in this topic

ArnoldTBlumberg

ArnoldTBlumberg

Posted
Posted

And exactly why does my reading of the movie, based of course only on spoken dialogue, the -script, and the deliberate intention on the part of all the film-makers that Kelly was so severely affected by the process that he lost his molecular cohesion and dissolved into his constituent elements - which is why he 'turned into water' - enable me to assume that honor? smile.gif I would assume rather the opposite.

 

But if you like, we can share the crown. I want it on weekends, 'cause chicks dig that you know.

 

P.S. Are you going to be at the Philly thing? 'Cause we should stage a "Kelly Is Dead/Kelly Isn't Dead" debate. laugh.gif

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joe_collector

joe_collector

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Nah, since I respect both POV's, and admit it could easily go either way, and since I have not had direct contact with the screenwriter (as you must have to make such sweeping "deliberate intention on the part of all the film-makers" comments) I'll leave it at that.

 

Can you post some of your conversations with the screenwriter, or are they confidential?

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ArnoldTBlumberg

ArnoldTBlumberg

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I suppose technically they can be considered confidential as they were conversations only intended for the express purpose of publication in an interview, but I don't have anything in transcripts to post anyway. In all the coverage we did with DeSanto, Bryan and David, it was pretty clear - as I always thought it was in watching the film - that the whole point of the last act was that Magneto's machine was flawed and they had to save all the humans before they were all hit by the wave, had their molecular cohesion broken down, and were turned into puddles of goo like Kelly.

 

It occurs to me though that you have found a loophole that, despite the fact it was never intended by any of the creators and not perceived by most of the filmgoers, *does* actually make sense in comic book terms. The more I think about it, the more your idea is a possibility - after all, the only reason the characters in the film *think* that Magneto's machine wouldn't work is based on their experience with Kelly, and you're right actually - we don't know that he's really dead. Never thought of it this way, but yeah it could be that way too.

 

However, I think it's clear from the production crew's point of view that they never intended that and wouldn't expect to bring a mutant Kelly back in any future film...unless of course you write it smile.gif.

 

Next up, let's debate the following: Professor X is actually a Starfleet captain flung back in time and crippled by the effects of temporal displacement. Discuss.

 

Arnold

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joe_collector

joe_collector

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I agree totally with your statements, and it's basically all I was saying. Sure, the film works because the X-folks are after Magneto and his supposedly-flawed machine (3rd Act), but that's one POV the film-makers were using to push the action.

 

There also exists the villains POV, which may be decidedly different and even though it doesn't drive the 3rd Act, it may be just as true.

 

I also checked out the final and shooting scripts, and interestingly, Kelly's powers were different and he had some sort of venomous spikes in his hands. Whether conscious or not, someone changed it to be a bit more ambiguous and open to Kelly coming back.

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Prophet78

Prophet78

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Posted

My only question for this debate is....Who cleaned up the mess? Did they use a mop or a swiffer? Does Sen. Kelly live on from the relm of the bucket, Ruling ruthlessly over his lesser H2O Molecules?

 

Take it one step further: If he isn't dead, does he come back as Mop-Man? I mean come on! Who could stand up to Mop-Man?

 

 

Sheesh...let it go people...... Damn fan-boys...... 893blahblah.gif

-Jeremy-

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joe_collector

joe_collector

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Nah, he drained out to the same lake as Jean Grey now floats in, left for fish bait by her uncaring team-mates.

 

They're probably doing the hoochy-goochy right now. grin.gif

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Titan777

Titan777

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lets put it all together.......hmmm 893scratchchin-thumb.gif.....able to squish through bars in a single sqeeze.

 

jelly.JPG

 

boy torturing Jellyfish as the senator comes out of water.......do jellyfish sting??893scratchchin-thumb.gif

 

jellyfish.JPG

 

does somone who can turn to liquid need gills on the back 893scratchchin-thumb.gif

 

senator.JPG

 

the death of a jellyfish/boy torturing jellyfish/poisonous stingers

 

 

watery.JPG

 

not once did I see anything in the movie that implied he could turn to H2o..............just keep going back and forth guys goodevil.gifstooges.gif

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Ares

Ares

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Well if we Believe Universe X or Paradise X All people have the mutant gene in them.

All it needs is a trigger to release it.

 

Machine or accident for some, Birth for others.

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Darthdiesel

Darthdiesel

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Now, I realize that it's important that Jean "rise like a Phoenix" in the next movie, but didn't anyone think that just leaving her there would be a tad macabre?

 

What I found a more disturbing example of inactivity was how some guy named Iceman doesn't freeze the oncoming tidal wave or build an "ice dam" of some sort???

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Illiterati-migration

Illiterati-migration

Posted
Posted

What I found a more disturbing example of inactivity was how some guy named Iceman doesn't freeze the oncoming tidal wave or build an "ice dam" of some sort???

 

The phrase "...nowhere near that powerful" (from X1) springs to mind when I hear that question... and I've been hearing it a lot. lol

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Illiterati-migration

Illiterati-migration

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Nah, he drained out to the same lake as Jean Grey now floats in, left for fish bait by her uncaring team-mates.

 

They're probably doing the hoochy-goochy right now. grin.gif

 

Holy khrap! Will they BOTH return as Phoenix? Jean Kelly? Senator Grey? Kelly Gray? Earl Gray? The Kelly-Gray Unimind?? I smell spinoff!

 

makepoint.gif

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joe_collector

joe_collector

Posted
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What I found a more disturbing example of inactivity was how some guy named Iceman doesn't freeze the oncoming tidal wave or build an "ice dam" of some sort???

 

That whole end sequence was so forced, it wasn't funny. It's like the writers' thought "hey, we need her underwater for X3", then consulted The Two Towers early draft, and thought up the "bursting dam" scene.

 

Why didn't Iceman freeze the water/create a dam, if Jean was powerful enough to stop a tidal wave, why didn't she just levitate the ship from inside - she did it anyway at the end? Why did she even have to leave the ship?

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blowout

blowout

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Why didn't Iceman freeze the water/create a dam, if Jean was powerful enough to stop a tidal wave, why didn't she just levitate the ship from inside - she did it anyway at the end? Why did she even have to leave the ship?

 

Why didn't Storm live up to her name and divert the wave with her elemental powers? Or raise the ship using wind currents????makepoint.gif

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musicmeta

musicmeta

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Posted
Why didn't Iceman freeze the water/create a dam, if Jean was powerful enough to stop a tidal wave, why didn't she just levitate the ship from inside - she did it anyway at the end? Why did she even have to leave the ship?

 

Why didn't Storm live up to her name and divert the wave with her elemental powers? Or raise the ship using wind currents????makepoint.gif

 

Because the mutant powers of the scriptwriters/directors/producers over rule all more logical outcomes. Phoenix is going to rise and that's that.

 

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Ares

Ares

Posted
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What I found a more disturbing example of inactivity was how some guy named Iceman doesn't freeze the oncoming tidal wave or build an "ice dam" of some sort???

 

That whole end sequence was so forced, it wasn't funny. It's like the writers' thought "hey, we need her underwater for X3", then consulted The Two Towers early draft, and thought up the "bursting dam" scene.

 

Why didn't Iceman freeze the water/create a dam, if Jean was powerful enough to stop a tidal wave, why didn't she just levitate the ship from inside - she did it anyway at the end? Why did she even have to leave the ship?

 

If Jean was using her Teklekenisis maybey she has to be directly in sight of the object with nothign blocking her powers..

 

She couldnt lift the ship fast enough inside so she had to go outside to slow the water because the windows of the ship stopped her TK.

 

Kinda like blowing out a candle when there is glass in the way. You go to be on the other side of the glass for it to have any effect.

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joe_collector

joe_collector

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What are you talking about? Spider-man was about a kid who gets bit by a mutant spider an develops spider-like powers. If that's not suspension of disbelief, I don't know what it is.

 

You obviously have no idea what I'm talking about, and are falling back to that old canard about "it's not real" when what I'm actually referring to the lack of a cohesive story, regardless of the fictional world the characters exist in. I remember hearing this a lot when Phantom Menance came out, and fanboys would scream that the movie didn't have to make sense, contain a story or have compelling characters, because it's "not real" and I should "suspend my disbelief".

 

What a crock, and as more time went by, most of the fanboys started seeing through that BS, and even Lucas himself apologized.

 

X2 was an enjoyable action piece, kinda like wolfing down a burrito at Taco Bell, while Spider-man satisfied on most levels, and provided more of a full-course meal. Sometimes I'm in the mood for fast food, but I'd never rate it ahead of a quality meal with all the fixin's.

 

Some of this has to do with the parade of X-characters in the movie, where creating a compelling story is virtually impossible, due to the 2 hour limit. That's one reason why I'd love to see a Wolverine movie, as with the right -script, it could surpass Spider-man's high water mark.

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Illiterati-migration

Illiterati-migration

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Some of this has to do with the parade of X-characters in the movie, where creating a compelling story is virtually impossible, due to the 2 hour limit. That's one reason why I'd love to see a Wolverine movie, as with the right -script, it could surpass Spider-man's high water mark.

 

I just don't get that. Honestly, I can't stand Wolverine... though I'm not sure if it's because he has absolutely no value as a character (aside from the aesthetic value, because who wouldn't want to watch a short, hairy guy with claws cutting people to pieces?), or because Marvel marketed... well, we all know the rest of that rhetoric, eh?

 

So what's the big deal with this guy?

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