Why Wolverine Doesn't Smoke Anymore...

[Paratrooper]

How does one "avoid" smoke when it's in the vicinity....?

 

Simple. Leave.

 

Really? I avoid it by leaving? Since most smoking is detected by smell, I don't really have much choice to AVOID it by leaving, or anything else short of wearing a gas mask, do I?

 

I guess if I SEE it, off chance, I can then avoid it by leaving...

 

As long as what I'm doing isn't violating any laws or the rules of the premises, I'm free to do it and anyone who doesn't like it is free to leave.

 

 

You may not have noticed this, but smoke is a VAPOR. It FLOATS in the air. If someone walks by on the street, smoking a cig, it is IMPOSSIBLE to avoid that vapor, unless one carries a powerful hand fan with them at all times. If someone smokes in an enclosed space, that smoke will FILL that enclosed space.

 

As long as it's legal, who cares?

 

Um. People who don't like the smell.

 

I'm not doing anything wrong, so if it's offensive to someone, yes, they can leave.

 

This arrogance is the reason why smoking laws started being enacted 20-30 years ago, and continue to get more and more restrictive. If smokers had decided, en masse, to be more considerate about where and when they smoked, these laws would never have been enacted, especially to the degree they are and continue to be.

 

Would you go into a bar and get offended when everyone there orders a drink? So don't go somewhere that it is perfectly legal to smoke and get upset when someone does it.

 

Your logic fails.

 

1. Alcohol fumes rarely travel much beyond the edge of the glass, and thus have no DIRECT affect on other people, even people standing right next to someone drinking. The same cannot be said, obviously, of smoke.

 

2. With very few exceptions, open alcohol MUST be consumed within the establishment that sold it to you. One cannot walk down the street with a shot of whiskey, and even if they could, see #1.

 

So, if someone doesn't like it, THEY must leave...? THEY have to give up THEIR rights so YOU can pollute the air...?

 

 

If I had a can of noxious fart gas that I happened to enjoy the smell of, would it be ok for me to spray that in any public area I chose to...?

 

Somewhere along the way, this country went way off track. We've decided that we are protected from offense when just the opposite is what is guaranteed by our constitution. We have the right to be offensive (within legal limits, I can't parade around a playground naked ). If someone doesn't like what I have to say, they can leave, change the channel, put in earplugs, not read my posts, or whatever. What they can't do is make me quit saying it.

 

 

You don't seem to understand that people CANNOT AVOID smoke, if it's in the area.

 

Sure you can. Walk to your car and leave.

 

Seriously, why do you think this kind of unabashed arrogance is acceptable?

 

Can I walk up to you and yell through a bullhorn 2 feet from your ear, and then tell you that if you don't like it, you should "walk to your car and leave"....?

 

If not, why do you think such an answer is acceptable for your smoke?

 

Smoke in the open air, particularly in the amount from cigars and cigarettes, has negligible health effects.

 

That's not for you to to decide, and is mainly irrelevant.

 

It may smell bad, but it won't hurt you unless the smoker blows it directly into your face while you inhale. House fires in the open air have negligible effects on the health of the responders despite the fact that practically everything in a home gives off toxic (immediately toxic, not long-term) fumes as it burns. This is in the open air, it all changes when you walk into that burning house. It's contained and can be fatal in seconds. If you want to avoid that, i recommend one of two things. Either don't go in because it will kill you or wear the proper equipment.

 

I, like all Americans, have the right to NOT be exposed to things in public which are detrimental to our general physical comfort and health. The right to "offend" people by forcing your pollution on them is NOT enshrined in the Constitution, believe it or not. It's not free speech we're talking about, here. Just like you cannot stand and scream in my ear, or shine a laser light in my eyes, so too should you not be able to inflict your pollution on others.

 

So you're going to stop driving your car? It does as much damage to the health of the general public than my smoking a cigar as I walk down the street. Dear God! We all need to stop driving because it might offend a non-driver!

 

Your logic fails again.

 

1. Car emissions have improved so much over the last 50 years, emissions in some cases have been reduced to only water vapor. When and if I can attach a catalytic converter to the tip of your cigarette, THEN you might have a point.

 

2. Even for smelly cars, like diesel, one does not park the butt end of a car on a restaurant patio. Car fumes are far less ubiquitous than cigarette smokers.

 

And what really gets me is that you are (or were) a MEDIC!

 

 

I am. I'm not sure what that has to do with anything other than I have a better knowledge of what is and is not harmful and what amounts it takes to be harmful.

 

You don't see the irony of a medical health professional who willfully damages his health by inhaling toxic chemicals on a regular basis....?

 

 

For the record, I don't give a damn about what someone does to their own body. You want to destroy it by polluting it with chemicals, by all means, have at it.

 

But when (generic) your chemical addiction directly affects me in ways that I cannot avoid, we have a problem.

 

And when a person inflicts their chemical dependency on their children, who range from uncomfortable to allergic, then what...?

 

I don't inflict it on my children at all.

 

Good! But that wasn't my question.

 

I answered your question long ago but you don't like that answer.

 

Um. nope, you didn't. "A person" doesn't refer specifically to YOU.

 

Unlike me, my son has the opportunity to grow up in a smoke free home. The walls and ceilings aren't stained by smoke and he's never seen me do it....yet. As he gets older, he'll have the opportunity to make his own decisions including whether he wants to be around when I smoke or to smoke himself.

 

Good. This is what you should be doing. But that still wasn't my question.

 

And I still answered it long before this. You still either don't like it or don't understand it. I can not change either situation, so who cares?

 

Um. Nope, you didn't. "A person" doesn't refer specifically to YOU. You said not one word about what to do when a parent inflicts their children with their smoking. A child cannot "walk to their car and leave." So, no, you didn't answer the question.

 

Of course, you live in a state where smoking is against the law in public anyway.

 

Um. What state would that be? Because in California, it is NOT "against the law in public."

 

You don't have a choice. I do. If I light up and you don't like it, you can get in your car and leave. It's that simple.

 

If I'm ever in your vicinity, I'm going to walk up to you, whip out a bullhorn, and shout in your ear. Then we'll see how "simple" it really is...

 

(thumbs u

 

As long as it's legal where I do it, I'm within my rights. If I light up and anyone doesn't like it, they can leave. Even though there is enough in the air to smell, it's not enough to harm you.

 

It's not about harming me, as I said before. It is offensive. If you have the right to smoke in my vicinity, I have the right to yell in your ear. After all, that's not illegal, either.

 

(thumbs u

 

I didn't bother reading all that garbage. You're too dumb to understand it or just don't like it. Again, I can't help either situation.

 

You got trapped in the RMA vortex didn't you? Hurry leave this thread!

[RockMyAmadeus]

How does one "avoid" smoke when it's in the vicinity....?

 

Simple. Leave.

 

Really? I avoid it by leaving? Since most smoking is detected by smell, I don't really have much choice to AVOID it by leaving, or anything else short of wearing a gas mask, do I?

 

I guess if I SEE it, off chance, I can then avoid it by leaving...

 

As long as what I'm doing isn't violating any laws or the rules of the premises, I'm free to do it and anyone who doesn't like it is free to leave.

 

 

You may not have noticed this, but smoke is a VAPOR. It FLOATS in the air. If someone walks by on the street, smoking a cig, it is IMPOSSIBLE to avoid that vapor, unless one carries a powerful hand fan with them at all times. If someone smokes in an enclosed space, that smoke will FILL that enclosed space.

 

As long as it's legal, who cares?

 

Um. People who don't like the smell.

 

I'm not doing anything wrong, so if it's offensive to someone, yes, they can leave.

 

This arrogance is the reason why smoking laws started being enacted 20-30 years ago, and continue to get more and more restrictive. If smokers had decided, en masse, to be more considerate about where and when they smoked, these laws would never have been enacted, especially to the degree they are and continue to be.

 

Would you go into a bar and get offended when everyone there orders a drink? So don't go somewhere that it is perfectly legal to smoke and get upset when someone does it.

 

Your logic fails.

 

1. Alcohol fumes rarely travel much beyond the edge of the glass, and thus have no DIRECT affect on other people, even people standing right next to someone drinking. The same cannot be said, obviously, of smoke.

 

2. With very few exceptions, open alcohol MUST be consumed within the establishment that sold it to you. One cannot walk down the street with a shot of whiskey, and even if they could, see #1.

 

So, if someone doesn't like it, THEY must leave...? THEY have to give up THEIR rights so YOU can pollute the air...?

 

 

If I had a can of noxious fart gas that I happened to enjoy the smell of, would it be ok for me to spray that in any public area I chose to...?

 

Somewhere along the way, this country went way off track. We've decided that we are protected from offense when just the opposite is what is guaranteed by our constitution. We have the right to be offensive (within legal limits, I can't parade around a playground naked ). If someone doesn't like what I have to say, they can leave, change the channel, put in earplugs, not read my posts, or whatever. What they can't do is make me quit saying it.

 

 

You don't seem to understand that people CANNOT AVOID smoke, if it's in the area.

 

Sure you can. Walk to your car and leave.

 

Seriously, why do you think this kind of unabashed arrogance is acceptable?

 

Can I walk up to you and yell through a bullhorn 2 feet from your ear, and then tell you that if you don't like it, you should "walk to your car and leave"....?

 

If not, why do you think such an answer is acceptable for your smoke?

 

Smoke in the open air, particularly in the amount from cigars and cigarettes, has negligible health effects.

 

That's not for you to to decide, and is mainly irrelevant.

 

It may smell bad, but it won't hurt you unless the smoker blows it directly into your face while you inhale. House fires in the open air have negligible effects on the health of the responders despite the fact that practically everything in a home gives off toxic (immediately toxic, not long-term) fumes as it burns. This is in the open air, it all changes when you walk into that burning house. It's contained and can be fatal in seconds. If you want to avoid that, i recommend one of two things. Either don't go in because it will kill you or wear the proper equipment.

 

I, like all Americans, have the right to NOT be exposed to things in public which are detrimental to our general physical comfort and health. The right to "offend" people by forcing your pollution on them is NOT enshrined in the Constitution, believe it or not. It's not free speech we're talking about, here. Just like you cannot stand and scream in my ear, or shine a laser light in my eyes, so too should you not be able to inflict your pollution on others.

 

So you're going to stop driving your car? It does as much damage to the health of the general public than my smoking a cigar as I walk down the street. Dear God! We all need to stop driving because it might offend a non-driver!

 

Your logic fails again.

 

1. Car emissions have improved so much over the last 50 years, emissions in some cases have been reduced to only water vapor. When and if I can attach a catalytic converter to the tip of your cigarette, THEN you might have a point.

 

2. Even for smelly cars, like diesel, one does not park the butt end of a car on a restaurant patio. Car fumes are far less ubiquitous than cigarette smokers.

 

And what really gets me is that you are (or were) a MEDIC!

 

 

I am. I'm not sure what that has to do with anything other than I have a better knowledge of what is and is not harmful and what amounts it takes to be harmful.

 

You don't see the irony of a medical health professional who willfully damages his health by inhaling toxic chemicals on a regular basis....?

 

 

For the record, I don't give a damn about what someone does to their own body. You want to destroy it by polluting it with chemicals, by all means, have at it.

 

But when (generic) your chemical addiction directly affects me in ways that I cannot avoid, we have a problem.

 

And when a person inflicts their chemical dependency on their children, who range from uncomfortable to allergic, then what...?

 

I don't inflict it on my children at all.

 

Good! But that wasn't my question.

 

I answered your question long ago but you don't like that answer.

 

Um. nope, you didn't. "A person" doesn't refer specifically to YOU.

 

Unlike me, my son has the opportunity to grow up in a smoke free home. The walls and ceilings aren't stained by smoke and he's never seen me do it....yet. As he gets older, he'll have the opportunity to make his own decisions including whether he wants to be around when I smoke or to smoke himself.

 

Good. This is what you should be doing. But that still wasn't my question.

 

And I still answered it long before this. You still either don't like it or don't understand it. I can not change either situation, so who cares?

 

Um. Nope, you didn't. "A person" doesn't refer specifically to YOU. You said not one word about what to do when a parent inflicts their children with their smoking. A child cannot "walk to their car and leave." So, no, you didn't answer the question.

 

Of course, you live in a state where smoking is against the law in public anyway.

 

Um. What state would that be? Because in California, it is NOT "against the law in public."

 

You don't have a choice. I do. If I light up and you don't like it, you can get in your car and leave. It's that simple.

 

If I'm ever in your vicinity, I'm going to walk up to you, whip out a bullhorn, and shout in your ear. Then we'll see how "simple" it really is...

 

(thumbs u

 

As long as it's legal where I do it, I'm within my rights. If I light up and anyone doesn't like it, they can leave. Even though there is enough in the air to smell, it's not enough to harm you.

 

It's not about harming me, as I said before. It is offensive. If you have the right to smoke in my vicinity, I have the right to yell in your ear. After all, that's not illegal, either.

 

(thumbs u

 

I didn't bother reading all that garbage. You're too dumb to understand it or just don't like it. Again, I can't help either situation.

 

Copout. You know what I wrote is basic common sense, but you just can't deal with it, so you copout by tossing a pointless insult. Very cowardly of you.

 

I accept your admission of defeat.

[RockMyAmadeus]

You got trapped in the RMA vortex didn't you? Hurry leave this thread!

 

 

Don't be a dink. MedicAR and I have argued for years.

[Paratrooper]

You got trapped in the RMA vortex didn't you? Hurry leave this thread!

 

 

Don't be a dink. MedicAR and I have argued for years.

 

sounds like fun.....

[RockMyAmadeus]

You got trapped in the RMA vortex didn't you? Hurry leave this thread!

 

 

Don't be a dink. MedicAR and I have argued for years.

 

sounds like fun.....

 

It is, provided people can be big boys and don't get their noses bent out of joint...

 

...which is almost never, but hey, it is what it is.

[bass4punk]

The problem isn't smokers or non-smokers, but the fact that there's a ton of individual_without_enough_empathys out there. I use to smoke, and I'll admit there were times when I didn't pay much attention to those around me (unless there were kids), but 99% of the time, I was curteous to those around me who did not smoke. Yes, you have the right to smoke, but you do not have the right to make those around you suffer due to your habit.

 

As gross as some people think it is, take up dipping or snus when out in pubs. You get your nicotine fix, and unless you spit on somebody, others won't be affected. And if someone gives you lip about how gross it is for people to spit, decorate their shoes

[ireactions-migration]

I am deeply moved and edified by all the in-depth personal data you have all been so kind as to provide in this thread. I can't tell you how much I wanted to know about your personal habits and lifestyle decisions.

 

However, it's been several pages, and still, not one of you have explained:

 

a) why Wolverine should advocate and support your lifestyle as a smoker

b) why Joe Quesada was obligated to publish material advocating smoking when he doesn't want to publish pro-smoking material of any kind

c) why the Editor in Chief of Marvel Comics shouldn't be permitted to prevent a character he's responsible for from promoting a lifestyle decision that causes severe health problems

 

- Ib

[Rino]

I enjoy smoking a good cigar every now and then .While I do tend to avoid doing it in public, every now and then I'll smoke in a park or some other public place. It's just a chance for me to walk around and relax.

 

I understand that it may offend some, but I'm in the open and they can avoid me if they want to. My cigars are have a very sweet smell to them and I'm pretty sure they don't offend 99% of the people that do happen to smell them. I do avoid children when smoking. I don't think it does any harm being out in the open air, but still, I don't want to influence them in any way or offend the parents.

 

I can understand why Joe made the change with Wolverine and can even accept it. The media is very influential, after all. I do think it changes the character not to have him smoke his cigars anymore. The Wolverine I grew up with smoked and that's the one I enjoyed reading. Smoking does become part of your character, like George Burns who always had a cigar. The cigar was part of his persona.

 

On a different note, I don't think I've read a Wolverine story in years. The no smoking policy had nothing to do with it. I just enjoy other comics more. Red Hulk is my current favorite. Other than that one title, I don't even bother with Marvel.

[A-DONIS]

Can someone kill this thread please...

[s-man]

Can someone kill this thread please...

 

All you have to do is mention something political

[shortstack comics]

Can someone kill this thread please...

 

All you have to do is mention something political

 

Tabacoo companies own the political system. Only in our country would a company that makes something that is known to cause massive health issues for both direct users and indirect victims and adding a crushing burden to the public health system both in number of patients and cost of service be allowed to continue operatig due solely to the fact they have purchased the political system wholesale.

 

And George Bush hates black covers on comic books.

 

Trying to kill it

[Raphael]

whatever happens off panel, stays off panel

[Rino]

Can someone kill this thread please...

 

All you have to do is mention something political

 

Tabacoo companies own the political system. Only in our country would a company that makes something that is known to cause massive health issues for both direct users and indirect victims and adding a crushing burden to the public health system both in number of patients and cost of service be allowed to continue operatig due solely to the fact they have purchased the political system wholesale.

 

And George Bush hates black covers on comic books.

 

Trying to kill it

 

Tobacco taxes are paying for a whole lot of good things, new roads, education, and other goodies. The taxes on cigarettes are so ridiculous anymore, you're pretty much paying the government to let you smoke.

[USArmyParatrooper]

I will only add that I abhor morality being forced upon people by the government. With that being said, I have no problem with an individual willingly taking on a cause, by his own free choice, for the benefit of society.

 

After about a hundred attempts (literally) I finally managed to quit smoking and dipping about three months ago.

 

I don't think Joe Quesada is being a hypocrite just because he didn't make Wolverine a paragon of virtue in all areas. Nicotine is one of the most addictive substances on the planet, and it's extremely harmful. It's obviously an issue very personal to Joe Q, and I can understand that because I recently lost my aunt (who was a smoker) to cancer. I can even remember her trying to quit as a child - and this was 25 years ago.

 

Joe Q lost multiple family members to this addiction. It is HIS call if he wants Wolverine to have a cigar ir cigarette hanging out of his mouth.

 

Personally I've always thought it takes away from the realism of the comic (the same with alcohol). With Wolverine's healing factor it would be impossible for him to get anything out of smoking or get so much as a beer buzz from drinking.

[Unca Ben]

Can someone kill this thread please...

 

All you have to do is mention something political

 

Tabacoo companies own the political system. Only in our country would a company that makes something that is known to cause massive health issues for both direct users and indirect victims and adding a crushing burden to the public health system both in number of patients and cost of service be allowed to continue operatig due solely to the fact they have purchased the political system wholesale.

 

And George Bush hates black covers on comic books.

 

Trying to kill it

There are tobacco companies worldwide, operating on every continent. Tobacco is produced on every continent as well.

 

Okay, except for Antarctica.

 

 

[shortstack comics]

Can someone kill this thread please...

 

All you have to do is mention something political

 

Tabacoo companies own the political system. Only in our country would a company that makes something that is known to cause massive health issues for both direct users and indirect victims and adding a crushing burden to the public health system both in number of patients and cost of service be allowed to continue operatig due solely to the fact they have purchased the political system wholesale.

 

And George Bush hates black covers on comic books.

 

Trying to kill it

There are tobacco companies worldwide, operating on every continent. Tobacco is produced on every continent as well.

 

Okay, except for Antarctica.

 

 

Can someone kill this thread please...

 

[siize:8pt]Trying to kill it[/size]

 

I think you missed the joke.

 

 

 

 

 

[whisp]

No idea if mentioned but I wonder if Wolverine can even get cancer.

[USArmyParatrooper]

Sure you can. Walk to your car and leave. Smoke in the open air, particularly in the amount from cigars and cigarettes, has negligible health effects. It may smell bad, but it won't hurt you unless the smoker blows it directly into your face while you inhale. House fires in the open air have negligible effects on the health of the responders despite the fact that practically everything in a home gives off toxic (immediately toxic, not long-term) fumes as it burns. This is in the open air, it all changes when you walk into that burning house. It's contained and can be fatal in seconds. If you want to avoid that, i recommend one of two things. Either don't go in because it will kill you or wear the proper equipment.

 

 

Thank you for this!

 

http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=4939725#Post4939725

[NYComics]

ummmmmmmmmmmmmm

 

Wolverine should be a smoker, we should not change him just because of Joe Q's pov.

 

It was in his character. I share the opinion of someone who was around WAY before Joe Q and definitely had a larger impact on Wolverine.

 

 

 

Take THAT Joe Q. I SMOKE When and Where I want!

 

 

[BrianR]

Sadly it wasn't logan. Poor ol' Ben had to quit too. The Thing was always my favorite character as a kid and I never had the desire to smoke. I in fact hate smoking, the smell is disgusting, you find the butts laying on the ground etc., but I had to have this piece done as it is the way I remember and love the character. There is too much political correctness.