Cerebus or Why didn't I collect this book all along.

[Timulty]

Just read through the phonebook. Haven't got a copy of High Society and Jumped over that to Church and State. I keep smacking myself over the head for missing this book for well over 20 years. I was aware of it in 87, I just started to lump it in with all of the independent drek that was being shoveled out at the time. What surprises me, is the level of story telling in this book. Truly great stuff. So, who here wants to call the book, The Comic Book That Started The Copper Age?

[SuperBird]

So long as you stop reading after Jaka's Story (maybe Mothers & Daughters) Cerebus is really great!

 

I cannot accurately describe the complete and total failure of a comic book it became after that. Even though I had a complete run, I could not justify buying the last 30 or 40 issues...

 

So Tim, want to buy a near complete run?

[Timulty]

I have been offered to buy a good batch of these but I have to pay off other "concerns" before I do so.

[HouseofComics.Com]

I think if you had discovered the comic in 1985 or earlier you would've seen a lot of people attach more importance to it. It was a big deal in the early 80s. I also really enjoy all the editorials on creators' rights from around 1992-1994.

 

Mattbird is totally correct about the book losing its way later on.

 

Marc

[Timulty]

I really liked at the end of The Phonebook(Issue 23-25 or some such) Man-Thing nd Swamp Thing parodies. Quite hilarious that. You learn to appreciate the humor and social commentary from this series. I haven't read anything later than Church and State vol. 1. It is my understanding, that Sims wrote all 300 issues? If that is the case, I can see how it could lose it's way after 100 or so.

[Bronty]

He did write all 300, but I don't think it lost its way at all. The later issues are just as good in my opinion, I'd say better in fact. But it does become more like reading a novel with pictures rather than looking at pictures with a few word balloons... so less mainstream and like a typical 'comic' for sure.

 

..and reading it in comic form as it came out left you wondering what the hell had happened the month before because the story is too dense to digest in 20 page segments. The later issues are brilliant too - but they are not lazy reads - they become more and more infused with his political beliefs. Mothers and daughters is about women taking over the world, basically. I.e. that women argue with emotion, men with reason and that reason can never win against emotion - and he's not wrong in that respect. How many conversations have you had with your wife or girlfriend that are along the lines of "I think we should do this because blah blah blah" and the response is something like "you don't love me anymore". The second statement is not a logical response to the first. And it calls on emotion... and it's an argument you can't win. I do think he goes too far, at some point you just have to laugh this stuff off, but he's not wrong in his observations.

 

So the later issues are a great read too but again they are not a lazy read and they do read much better in collected volumes - same is true for the early issues, really. As a whole I think the 300 issue series was a pretty stunning accomplishment.

 

If you do read mothers & daughters, keep an eye out for the punisher and the dildojockies page. Freaking hilarious

[Timulty]

I am in the middle of Church and State right now. I loved the Wolveroach section. I loved how Cockroach, becomes Captain Cockroach, Moon Roach and Wolveroach. I think, he is making a larger statement about Marvel comics, in general. Perhaps hows they went from Bad to worse. It is almost like reading Planetary, in its somewhat subtle unpinnings. Large themes dominate over more obscure references. These are really great comics(so far). I am saddened, however, that I didn't find them sooner.

[Hobo]

You read that 300 yet?

 

[Hobo]

I am in the middle of Church and State right now. I loved the Wolveroach section. I loved how Cockroach, becomes Captain Cockroach, Moon Roach and Wolveroach. I think, he is making a larger statement about Marvel comics, in general. Perhaps hows they went from Bad to worse. It is almost like reading Planetary, in its somewhat subtle unpinnings. Large themes dominate over more obscure references. These are really great comics(so far). I am saddened, however, that I didn't find them sooner.

 

Cerebus: "What are you smoking?"

 

Wolveroach: "Small bundle of tooth-picks. Gives my Wolver-lungs a workout."

 

Cerebus: "Cerebus had to ask . . ."

[Timulty]

Nope, that sucker isn't leaving its holder. Now, as to your Byrne Avengers....well, I read them. Kinda sucked. Beyonder, please forgive me.

[Hobo]

Nope, that sucker isn't leaving its holder. Now, as to your Byrne Avengers....well, I read them. Kinda sucked. Beyonder, please forgive me.

 

 

It's all good. Just thought it was worth a shot; you don't see Thor get beat-down too often in BA books.

 

Anyway . . . It's not like you don't know what happens in 300 . . .

[Kevin Boyd]

You skipped High Society and started reading Church and State? STOP THAT. Get yourself a copy of High Society and read that ASAP. High Society is my personal favourite, but in a lot of ways the first 25 issues were all a giant prelude for HS, and there is so much that happens in HS that has ramifications down the line for the rest of the series.

 

And I agree with Bronty, that Cerebus is great all the way through. As a loyal reader of Cerebus, I found the last 100+ issues painful to read as a monthly but pretty good reads as phonebooks.

 

Cerebus isn't the book that started the Copper age (it's origins are firmly rooted in Bronze I'm afraid), not to mention it began in 1977, a full 7-8 years before Copper.

 

Last Saturday at the Joe Shuster Awards ceremony Dave was presented with his Hall of Fame award and sang a few verses of Paul Anka's "MY WAY". He sure did, and that's the achievement of Cerebus, like it or not, it was done exactly the way the creator wanted it done, because the creator was the only decision-maker from putting thought to paper through to the book coming off of the printing press.

[Timulty]

Actually, I dispute the start of the Copper Age. I believe that all of the characteristics that define the Bronze pretty much dropped off the map right around the time this was published.

[jbud73]

Just read through the phonebook. Haven't got a copy of High Society and Jumped over that to Church and State. I keep smacking myself over the head for missing this book for well over 20 years. I was aware of it in 87, I just started to lump it in with all of the independent drek that was being shoveled out at the time. What surprises me, is the level of story telling in this book. Truly great stuff. So, who here wants to call the book, The Comic Book That Started The Copper Age?

 

Well '77 would throw a monkey in there for the start of Copper and the dealers are always trying to get us to believe that Bronze lasted later and later

 

But as for the question in the title of this thread. Uh, because you like some weenie in Red tights with a bolt of lightening on his chest

[Timulty]

Actually, I hadn't read a GA Captain Marvel Comic until last year. I has a read a Marvel Captain Marvel back in the 70's and found it incredibly bad. When I started collecting, I was reading Batman and later Swamp Thing, Sandman and Hellblazer.

[Aman619]

He did write all 300, but I don't think it lost its way at all. The later issues are just as good in my opinion, I'd say better in fact. But it does become more like reading a novel with pictures rather than looking at pictures with a few word balloons... so less mainstream and like a typical 'comic' for sure.

 

..and reading it in comic form as it came out left you wondering what the hell had happened the month before because the story is too dense to digest in 20 page segments. The later issues are brilliant too - but they are not lazy reads - they become more and more infused with his political beliefs. Mothers and daughters is about women taking over the world, basically. I.e. that women argue with emotion, men with reason and that reason can never win against emotion - and he's not wrong in that respect. How many conversations have you had with your wife or girlfriend that are along the lines of "I think we should do this because blah blah blah" and the response is something like "you don't love me anymore". The second statement is not a logical response to the first. And it calls on emotion... and it's an argument you can't win. I do think he goes too far, at some point you just have to laugh this stuff off, but he's not wrong in his observations.

 

So the later issues are a great read too but again they are not a lazy read and they do read much better in collected volumes - same is true for the early issues, really. As a whole I think the 300 issue series was a pretty stunning accomplishment.

 

If you do read mothers & daughters, keep an eye out for the punisher and the dildojockies page. Freaking hilarious

 

exactly so. I envy anyone able to pick up Cerebus cold now. Having read it every month from issue 36 onward, I came to describe th ejourney as from teh vantage point of an ant walking across town. He's so close to the ground and can only see a few feet all around that he has little sense of the grandeur he walks amidst. A forest for the trees analogy.

 

 

go ahead and read it all. It'll take a week at most, a phone book or 2 a day (and call me in the morning!) and remember, its okay to skim over the long text pieces!!! Most of us did. The great thing about redaing it all in one piece I noticed (from my habit of rereading the story in each phone book as they came out) was how seemlessly all the events and pieces fit together. Month by month you got lots and forgot so mant small scenes.

 

Part of teh brilliance of Dave Sim was how he held it all together so well in the face of his snail's pace!! Sure he veered and strayed away from his initial plan (he always claimed to have had it all worked out back in the late 70s) but overall he kept it going in a straight line.

 

He did rush the end though, in keeping to his arbitrary but oft announced 300 issue limit. Without it, he could have done another 50 or 100 issues. (but he wont admit it for another 20 years I ll bet!)

[Sal]

Actually, I dispute the start of the Copper Age. I believe that all of the characteristics that define the Bronze pretty much dropped off the map right around the time this was published.

 

September 1980 at the absolute earliest. 1977? no way, Jose

[Timulty]

This guy was just a visionary then eh? Well, I will buy that!!!

[fable]

Dave and Gerhard are also really nice guys - they sent me a great piece of art after a few mails i sent to them regarding my respect for Cerebus.

 

Quality.

[Psiknight]

It's one of my favorite series from the Bronze/Copper age.