I just soiled myself.....and I couldn't be happier.

[Zonker]

Now obviously this FF #1 was originally graded in New Jersey which as you know might have more smog molecules blocking the flourescent light from properly amplifying the page quaity. In Florida which is "brighter" the true page quality revealed itself

 

 

So now we have another piece of data required to completely define a slabbed book.

 

- Structural grade?

- PQ?

- QP?

- New label vs. old label?

- Yankee-graded vs. Sarasota-graded?

 

Better add another field to the GPA database.

[Ze-man]

In Florida which is "brighter" the true page quality revealed itself

 

Let the debate begin!

 

 

I know your post was made in jest, (as is mine) but it does have some relevance. Did CGC invest in proper lighting when they first opened their doors? Because as we all know different lighting breeds different results.

I keep imagining Steve grading it by the dome light in his VW van in NJ ,under a bridge where the slabbing machine was located. Handing it out the window to Litch, who is sweating,holding a flashlight in his teeth... saying "Steady, steady.. I only have one shot to slab this puppy"

 

Talk about subpar conditions! No wonder they made mistakes, and moved to Sunny FL.

 

 

 

Ze-

[Captain Tripps]

Mark,

 

Thanks for your post. I would be happy to respond to your questions.

 

1. I had no specific conversations with the CGC personnel. When I was there 2 Mondays ago (the 12th), I was busy submitting books, filling out a few forms and I handed in the Fantastic Four #1 with a submission form. If you check out a CGC form, there is a box to check off "Other". I did that and wrote in the line provided "Page quality Review".

 

2. I don't remember who the CGC rep was who took in my submissions (it might have been Eric), but I did not have any specific conversations with him about the book, other than "Please don't drop it, or "be careful with this one" or something to that effect.

 

3. No arguments, etc. Mark. I just submitted it and got it back later that same day. I was sure it would come back at least off-white to white and so I submitted it.

 

Btw, I'm sure if you talk with any of the Senior CGC graders, they would even admit that they were a little tougher with the page quality in the beginning.

 

Doug

[OldGuy]

I think this deserves an explanation

 

"Think"? You "think"? Boy, you aren't paid to "think", you're paid to shovel [embarrassing lack of self control]. now pick up your shovel and get to work!

 

[Captain Tripps]

Tom,

 

did it ever occur to you that the book was on consignment from someone else and I was waiting for it from the seller in order to ship to you?? I'm sure I told you that in my email in response to your inquiries about the status of the book.

 

If I have a book in my office or storage facility I ship it out immediately! Ask any collector or purchaser who is on the boards and they will tell you. If it's a repeat customer, I frequently ship out the book(s) before the check clears or credit card payment is processed and deposited into my account. And, with regard to the credit card/paypal extra cost, it is a buyers' premium that has to passed onto the buyer. I encourage every customer to save their $$ by sending me a check or money order. When you only charge a ridiculously low 8% commission to sell other people's book, it is impossible to absorg the paypal and credit card fees (then i'd be at 5%!). It is not the seller's decision for a purchaser to pay with a credit card/paypal, so he can not bear that cost either. I'm sorry if you think this is cheating, etc., but it is not, Tom.

 

Again, you have every right not to want to buy books from me or deal with me. It just seemed odd to me that you never had a problem ordering from my site and then all of a sudden I am a cheat, scum-bag, etc., when you have no knowledge of any of the "charges" you are relying on in justifying your stance toward me.

 

 

 

You have the right to your opinions, Tom.

[Khumbu]

What's interesting to me about CGC (maddening, too) is that they give ME the service they promise -- solid grading, fair treatment, good customer service. In fact, probably 95% of their service is excellent. With the BSD money players, however, they pull all kinds of shenanigans to keep these guys happy...resto becomes no resto, grades creep up, page quality gets "fixed", etc. What a crock. I love Steve B. and the other CGC folks but it must drive THEM nuts at time to see what a two-tiered game they play...you can't justify unfair or business practices except via the bottom line, which is why there are so many CEO's and CFO's who sell their souls to Satan for the almighty dollar.

 

Dan

 

I have noticed this too and so have several of my other small store owners in the area. We see books that are overgraded, I think Steve and CGC is great but I think that the small guy and the large guy should be treated equally.

[LordRahl]

And exactly why did people think I was crazy when I first said,

 

"The question I would have is what was this book at one time?"

 

Obviously, Lord Rahl must be away on vacation, because I'm sure he otherwise would have been all over his thread defending his 'conspiracy theories' comments....

 

Whoa there slick. How about you sit back, unbunch your panties and take a deep breath. I guess I'll have to apologize for having a life and not reading these boards 24/7 to reply to your calling me out. Take a look at my post dates, at the time the book had been reholdered only and still had off-white pages. People were jumping to conclusions over nothing at the time. If you don't like my disdain for the unsubstantiated conspiracy theories spewed on these boards then maybe you should disclose some of your "unnamed sources". How are those fine mysterious gentlemen by the way?

[uclapeterg]

 

The problem with "traditional" vs "non-traditional" is that we really need to know what the exact standards and policies that exist with and are implemented by CGC to reach an informed determination. Based on what we do know from anecdotal experience, as discussed in this thread, the lack of a new serial number does appear troubling.

 

 

For those of you that do not speak lawyer.

 

He said, "We dont know how the f CGC grades our books, they wont tell us."

 

I thought I said that.

 

You did, in lawyer speeak.

[uclapeterg]

I just posted a question about what a review is to "Ask CGC". I'd honestly love to know, since I have a few books whose pq I'd like to have reviewed without paying for an entire regrade.

 

Dan

 

I have the same question a bout some books. Let me know if they respond, Dan.

[uclapeterg]

Mark,

 

If you check out a CGC form, there is a box to check off "Other". I did that and wrote in the line provided "Page quality Review".

 

How much did you pay for that, Doug? And how did you know to do that? I wouldn't in a million years ever think of that.

[burntboy]

Tom,

 

did it ever occur to you that the book was on consignment from someone else and I was waiting for it from the seller in order to ship to you?? I'm sure I told you that in my email in response to your inquiries about the status of the book.

 

If I have a book in my office or storage facility I ship it out immediately! Ask any collector or purchaser who is on the boards and they will tell you. If it's a repeat customer, I frequently ship out the book(s) before the check clears or credit card payment is processed and deposited into my account. And, with regard to the credit card/paypal extra cost, it is a buyers' premium that has to passed onto the buyer. I encourage every customer to save their $$ by sending me a check or money order. When you only charge a ridiculously low 8% commission to sell other people's book, it is impossible to absorg the paypal and credit card fees (then i'd be at 5%!). It is not the seller's decision for a purchaser to pay with a credit card/paypal, so he can not bear that cost either. I'm sorry if you think this is cheating, etc., but it is not, Tom.

 

Again, you have every right not to want to buy books from me or deal with me. It just seemed odd to me that you never had a problem ordering from my site and then all of a sudden I am a cheat, scum-bag, etc., when you have no knowledge of any of the "charges" you are relying on in justifying your stance toward me.

 

 

 

You have the right to your opinions, Tom.

 

actually i was the guilty party (with a slight delay) and told that to Tom in a PM....................but the process will take at the very least a week if the book is with the consignor as was the B&B 43.........................

[jimjum12]

In my opinion,all books whose holders or labels are changed in ANY fashion should retain their original barcode number.After all,it is the book itself and not the service rendered that interests us the most.The individual copy is still nothing more than what it is,irregardless of commentary or opinion.If all books,whether re-holdered,re-subbed,or reviewed were to retain the original serial # that it was issued,everything would be "on the level",and most questions of impropriety would vanish.Take our national census,If some of my personal details change,my identity does not.I still retain the same "serial number".GOD BLESS...

 

-jimbo(a friend of jesus)

[uclapeterg]

But the prob, Jim, is then the past history of books would be eliminated.

[Ze-man]

But the prob, Jim, is then the past history of books would be eliminated.

 

Easy fix.

 

Add to the label all the resubs and dates and I would be happy. Same serial number is the way... but amend it along the way.

 

But wait, that might actually help the collector.

 

 

But I forgot, must protect individual privacy, at all cost.

 

[Red Hook]

You are thus declared...An Enemy of the Hobby!

[lou_fine]

Btw, I'm sure if you talk with any of the Senior CGC graders, they would even admit that they were a little tougher with the page quality in the beginning.

 

Doug

 

Doug;

 

Nice to see that you are able to confirm your suspicions that CGC was too tight with their Page Qualtiy ratings in the beginning. On the other hand, you also stated that you felt CGC was too loose on their condition grading in the beginning.

 

As a result, can you now confirm that this FF #1 of yours is a true 9.6 or just another one of those loosely graded books at the time, and is probably in actual fact nothing more than an overgraded copy of what would be a 9.4 or lower copy in today's tighter grading market?

 

You should have gone for the full regrade in order to get a true and honest evaluation of the whole book. Instead, it looks like you got the best of both worlds by having it graded when the grading standards were lower and then having the page quality reviewed when the PQ standards were lower.

 

Congrats again on knowing how to play the CGC game to your full advantage.

[PedigreeMan]

1. I had no specific conversations with the CGC personnel. When I was there 2 Mondays ago (the 12th), I was busy submitting books, filling out a few forms and I handed in the Fantastic Four #1 with a submission form. If you check out a CGC form, there is a box to check off "Other". I did that and wrote in the line provided "Page quality Review".

 

2. I don't remember who the CGC rep was who took in my submissions (it might have been Eric), but I did not have any specific conversations with him about the book, other than "Please don't drop it, or "be careful with this one" or something to that effect.

 

3. No arguments, etc. Mark. I just submitted it and got it back later that same day. I was sure it would come back at least off-white to white and so I submitted it.

 

Fascinating. Thanks for this tidbit, Doug.

 

Can I pick your brain a bit more?

 

What else have you gotten reviewed through the "Other" line on the CGC submission form? Have you heard of anyone else getting something other than page quality reviewed through this same process?

 

As has been asked already, is there a charge for this service? You say you got it back the same day, which would imply a "Walkthru" service ... assuming it went through the normal submission procedures after you handed it off to Eric (or whomever), that is.

 

I'm still greatly puzzled by the whole same serial number problem. In order for CGC to review the page quality, the implication is that the book would have had to have been completely broken out of its slab at some point during the process. This, in turn, would imply that it did, in fact, wend its way through the normal submission process -- namely, deslabbed, put into an anonymous mylar, and barcoded with the only identifier being the serial number of the new submission form (the one with the "Other" field filled out).

 

Yet ... the finished product still has its old serial number.

 

So what piece of the puzzle am I missing here?

[esquirecomics]

Thank you for your prompt responses Doug.

 

Has anyone yet raised this specific issue with CGC personnel?

[THE_BEYONDER]

This whole thing is completely retarded. If there was a clear & logical expanation...we would have already heard it.

I'm sick of this [embarrassing lack of self control].

[ComicSupply]

This whole thing is completely retarded. If there was a clear & logical expanation...we would have already heard it.

I'm sick of this [embarrassing lack of self control].

 

I think the clear and logical explanation is that Doug knew he had a book worth thousands and thousands of dollars, and if he had to spend $1000 or $2000 to get the White Pages designation, then it would be a smart investment.

 

Shame on the idea, but the simpliest explanation is usually true.