I just soiled myself.....and I couldn't be happier.

[Drummy]

Hey Scott --

 

I'm busy during the day taking care of my daughter, but I did "Ask CGC" about what a "review" is. If they don't respond within 3 days, I'll call them to ask. Given that these reviews are probably popular with people who know about them (I can just see certain dealers reviewing one thing after another, politely, until they get what they want!), and that CGC must make some kind of income from this service, I wonder why it's not listed anywhere on their website or publications. I just think it's unfortunate that an independent grading company won't be transparent about such services to all its customers.

 

I also don't feel the "call and ask" method is approriate, intuitive, or fair to CGC customers.

 

Dan

[awe4one]

What else can one get "reviewed" by CGC?

Grades?

A PLOD?

Trimming?

 

Who else has used this service?

Comiclink?

Lauterbach?

Ewert?

 

Geez, do you guys need everything spoon fed to you? Put down the bongs and think for a change, eh?

 

I think it's great that CGC will, in good faith, review any of the above for any customer who feels strongly that CGC got it wrong the first time. The fact that some dealers have done this doesn't mean that anyone else couldn't do the same. I really don't see why you have such a problem with this.

 

Because the typical comicfan never finds out about these special perks until one of the BSDs gets questioned on a comic...

 

Jim

[FFB]

What else can one get "reviewed" by CGC?

Grades?

A PLOD?

Trimming?

 

Who else has used this service?

Comiclink?

Lauterbach?

Ewert?

 

Geez, do you guys need everything spoon fed to you? Put down the bongs and think for a change, eh?

 

I think it's great that CGC will, in good faith, review any of the above for any customer who feels strongly that CGC got it wrong the first time. The fact that some dealers have done this doesn't mean that anyone else couldn't do the same. I really don't see why you have such a problem with this.

 

Because the unchanged serial number seriously draws into question whether these books are actually being broken out of their slabs and "reviewed" as opposed to simply having their labels changed.

 

And all of this is based on what? Someone's word? What part of independent third party grading service are we forgetting here?

 

How does a new serial number prevent the same bad thing from happening? I don't see the correlation between "same serial number" and "special favors." What if CGC had issued a new serial number instead of keeping the old one? Would that necessarily mean that they treated the book itself differently when reviewing the page quality?

 

And if shenanigans were going to happen in favor of someone like Doug, don't you think they'd have happened the first time he had the book graded? CGC "needed" Doug a lot more in 2000 when they were a start-up company than they do now that they're the clear market leader. And before you say "Well maybe the book is a 9.4 in a 9.6 slab and he did get a break the first time," remember that Rob React and others have seen the book in hand and have said that the book looked to be "every bit a 9.6."

[FFB]

What else can one get "reviewed" by CGC?

Grades?

A PLOD?

Trimming?

 

Who else has used this service?

Comiclink?

Lauterbach?

Ewert?

 

Geez, do you guys need everything spoon fed to you? Put down the bongs and think for a change, eh?

 

I think it's great that CGC will, in good faith, review any of the above for any customer who feels strongly that CGC got it wrong the first time. The fact that some dealers have done this doesn't mean that anyone else couldn't do the same. I really don't see why you have such a problem with this.

 

Because the typical comicfan never finds out about these special perks until one of the BSDs gets questioned on a comic...

 

Jim

 

A "typical comic fan" (in other words, the vast, vast majority of the collectors in the hobby) doesn't even submit books to CGC. I think we can safely assume that anyone who does actually submit a book to CGC and thinks that CGC made a big error would have the presence of mind to call and talk to CGC about it without needing to be invited by a message on the website.

[FFB]

Hey Scott --

 

I'm busy during the day taking care of my daughter, but I did "Ask CGC" about what a "review" is. If they don't respond within 3 days, I'll call them to ask. Given that these reviews are probably popular with people who know about them (I can just see certain dealers reviewing one thing after another, politely, until they get what they want!), and that CGC must make some kind of income from this service, I wonder why it's not listed anywhere on their website or publications. I just think it's unfortunate that an independent grading company won't be transparent about such services to all its customers.

 

I also don't feel the "call and ask" method is approriate, intuitive, or fair to CGC customers.

 

Dan

 

Dan,

 

I think you're assuming here that CGC typically changes its decision based upon a review and I would imagine based on comments made before that this isn't the case. I specifically remember Bob Storms mentioning on here before that he's called to complain about grades on certain books, that CGC reviewed the book, and that despite his complaints, CGC did not change its call. I also know of at least one other collector on these boards (who is not, by any stretch of the imagination a mega-submitter or BSD) and who has lately been a big complainer about these goings-on, and he called CGC to complain about the grade of a book he submitted and got a review for no extra charge.

 

As for whether they charge for it or not, I don't know first-hand, but if the submitter just paid a grading fee and CGC is just double-checking its decision, my belief is that CGC probably doesn't charge them again. If CGC says otherwise, then obviously I'm wrong in assuming that.

 

I honestly think you guys are erroneously ascribing evil, profit-driven motives to CGC when what is really going on is that Steve is not so full of ego that he won't admit to the submitter when CGC makes a mistake, and that when he does admit the mistake, he's willing to remedy it. What you view as a bad thing is something that I consider to be a very good thing.

 

I have to ask those of you who have met Steve, Timely, Paul Litch, Mark Haspel, and the other guys at CGC and have known them for any significant length of time whether these guys really strike you as dishonest scumbags. I do not see them that way. They are really good people who care a lot about the hobby and who are simply willing to make things right when they agree with the customer that CGC made a mistake.

 

Scott

[PedigreeMan]

How does a new serial number prevent the same bad thing from happening? I don't see the correlation between "same serial number" and "special favors." What if CGC had issued a new serial number instead of keeping the old one? Would that necessarily mean that they treated the book itself differently when reviewing the page quality?

 

(Sometimes I wonder if I'm speaking Esperanto here.)

 

For the third time: A new serial number would mean that the book had gone through the transparent submission process of becoming an anonymous book with only a barcode (the serial number) to identify it. This also means it would have been handled and examined by pre-graders in rooms with cameras, and ultimately finalized in a manner that maintains anonymity. Ya know, like a real submission.

 

The fact that the serial number hasn't changed gives strong evidence that the entire submission process was bypassed, and that the book simply ended up on Borock's (or whomever's) desk with a "PQ review" (or whatever) note attached to it. Now, I freely admit that a change in page quality is rather benign, but what else can be "reviewed?" And if the normal chain of handling has been bypassed, how accurate is this review in the first place?

[FFB]

How does a new serial number prevent the same bad thing from happening? I don't see the correlation between "same serial number" and "special favors." What if CGC had issued a new serial number instead of keeping the old one? Would that necessarily mean that they treated the book itself differently when reviewing the page quality?

 

(Sometimes I wonder if I'm speaking Esperanto here.)

 

For the third time: A new serial number would mean that the book had gone through the transparent submission process of becoming an anonymous book with only a barcode (the serial number) to identify it. This also means it would have been handled and examined by pre-graders in rooms with cameras, and ultimately finalized in a manner that maintains anonymity. Ya know, like a real submission.

 

The fact that the serial number hasn't changed gives strong evidence that the entire submission process was bypassed, and that the book simply ended up on Borock's (or whomever's) desk with a "PQ review" (or whatever) note attached to it. Now, I freely admit that a change in page quality is rather benign, but what else can be "reviewed?" And if the normal chain of handling has been bypassed, how accurate is this review in the first place?

 

No it doesn't. A new serial number means that they gave the book a new serial number. You are simply assuming that a new serial number means that it went through the process. The Jason Ewert review books are all getting new serial numbers and I know that those aren't going through the entire regrading process. They're just being checked for trimming and then being reholdered with a new label and serial number.

 

As for what else can be "reviewed," the answer is almost certainly "everything." There is no law against CGC reviewing one of its certifications to check whether a mistake was made. The real question is whether the review will result in any kind of change to the grade, PQ, pedigree designation, etc.

[Mushroom]

Brad,

 

Absolutely. The off-white to white bump is cool, but I'd rather see the Yankees win the world series (which will never happen). I'm not incredibly fixated on page quality as I am on structure and no spine wear (my biggest bug a boo which is why the Pac coasts are my favorite books as they have absolutely no spine wear!!).

 

Not after they have reached their full potential...............

[nearmint]

I have to ask those of you who have met Steve, Timely, Paul Litch, Mark Haspel, and the other guys at CGC and have known them for any significant length of time whether these guys really strike you as dishonest scumbags. I do not see them that way. They are really good people who care a lot about the hobby and who are simply willing to make things right when they agree with the customer that CGC made a mistake.

 

Agreed.

[Mushroom]

I have to ask those of you who have met Steve, Timely, Paul Litch, Mark Haspel, and the other guys at CGC and have known them for any significant length of time whether these guys really strike you as dishonest scumbags. I do not see them that way. They are really good people who care a lot about the hobby and who are simply willing to make things right when they agree with the customer that CGC made a mistake.

 

Agreed.

 

These are the same guys that are shown in pictures with their arms around the Ewarts, Lauterbach's etc etc etc. They must be nice guys who are easily fooled then............

[Red Hook]

I have to ask those of you who have met Steve, Timely, Paul Litch, Mark Haspel, and the other guys at CGC and have known them for any significant length of time whether these guys really strike you as dishonest scumbags. I do not see them that way. They are really good people who care a lot about the hobby and who are simply willing to make things right when they agree with the customer that CGC made a mistake.

 

Agreed.

 

 

Scott....what's with you and the word "scumbag"? Who referred to Steve, Timely or any of those guys as such?

 

Or do you just get a tingle when you type it?

[nearmint]

I have to ask those of you who have met Steve, Timely, Paul Litch, Mark Haspel, and the other guys at CGC and have known them for any significant length of time whether these guys really strike you as dishonest scumbags. I do not see them that way. They are really good people who care a lot about the hobby and who are simply willing to make things right when they agree with the customer that CGC made a mistake.

 

Agreed.

 

These are the same guys that are shown in pictures with their arms around the Ewarts, Lauterbach's etc etc etc. They must be nice guys who are easily fooled then............

 

Several board members are present in similar pictures with the same individuals. You find yourself at a convention or CGC dinner and someone's taking pictures. It doesn't mean they've decended to the 5th level of hell by having a conversation or sharing a meal. I don't know Jason, except for stumbling over him looking at Don Rosa books last year, but Steve and Matt are really nice guys. I'm sure I'll talk to both of them in SD in a few weeks, and if someone takes a picture, I have no problem with that.

[Mushroom]

Good luck to you. The pictures with some of these starlets have them showing off their high grade slabs arm and arm with the CGC guys. That's more like publicity than just running into somebody for the first time at a dinner.

 

There is an old saying....."if you lay with the dogs then you will get fleas"

[nearmint]

Good luck to you. The pictures with some of these starlets have them showing off their high grade slabs arm and arm with the CGC guys. That's more like publicity than just running into somebody for the first time at a dinner.

 

There is an old saying....."if you lay with the dogs then you will get fleas"

 

There's a another old saying..."The average dog is a nicer person than the average person."

 

Now that we've got the dog quotes out of the way, got anything about cats?

[Mushroom]

Let me just say that I do not know any of the CGC guys directly or indirectly and I can in no way form a view of who they are and what their moral fortitude may or may not be but I get a little irritated when posters come on and try and cloud what is happening by simply saying "but they are all nice guys..........". That just isn't relevant when it comes to business.

 

So guys leave out the heart wrenching support and platitudes and deal with facts.

 

Trimming doesn't get detected.

Standards aren't published.

Preferential treatment is given.

Services are supplied that aren't on open offer to others.

Restoration check is part of the offering but they can't guarantee anything.

Some of the biggest CGC dealers have been caught with restored books in unrestored slabs.

[Mushroom]

Good luck to you. The pictures with some of these starlets have them showing off their high grade slabs arm and arm with the CGC guys. That's more like publicity than just running into somebody for the first time at a dinner.

 

There is an old saying....."if you lay with the dogs then you will get fleas"

 

There's a another old saying..."The average dog is a nicer person than the average person."

 

Now that we've got the dog quotes out of the way, got anything about cats?

 

that's true.....my basset hound Beau is probably loved and liked by more people than love or like me.

 

Hate cats......

[nearmint]

Let me just say that I do not know any of the CGC guys directly or indirectly and I can in no way form a view of who they are and what their moral fortitude may or may not be but I get a little irritated when posters come on and try and cloud what is happening by simply saying "but they are all nice guys..........". That just isn't relevant when it comes to business.

 

So guys leave out the heart wrenching support and platitudes and deal with facts.

 

Trimming doesn't get detected.

Standards aren't published.

Preferential treatment is given.

Services are supplied that aren't on open offer to others.

Restoration check is part of the offering but they can't guarantee anything.

Some of the biggest CGC dealers have been caught with restored books in unrestored slabs.

 

I think Scott was responding to the attacks on people in this thread. All of the subjects you list above are worthy of discussion. But, when people are attacked, it's also worthwhile to defend them. You say deal with the facts. Scott and I responded when the posts strayed from the facts, and became personal attacks.

[divad]

I honestly can't believe that Brad posted this without some, ahem, creative alteration . . .

 

[THE_BEYONDER]

Why not let them defend themselves?

[nearmint]

Why not let them defend themselves?

 

I like to think they're busy grading comic books. Even if they are reading the thread, I wouldn't expect anyone in the company below Stevie B. to be in a position to comment about missed trim jobs, etc.