I just soiled myself.....and I couldn't be happier.

[JiveTurkeyMoFo]

Looks like Doug decided to have the PQ checked after all!

 

Jimbo,

 

Yes, this was actually the 3rd comic ever graded by the CGC. I got it put into a new holder around the time of the Philly show in 2004 and thus the new label/hgolder (the original one was scratched to hell and it bugged me no end).

 

I really think the pages have a shot to be off-white to white as they look better than off-white from the outside view, but I haven't brought it in. It really is a solid 9.6 copy with no visible flaws, etc. It kind of looks like the reprint issue as its so flat and white but when you see the 10 cents on the cover you realize its the real deal.

 

I know its listed at a crazy price but I really think it would take a crazy price for me to sell it. I've owned it now for 10+ years and its my favorite comic book of all time.

 

Thanks for the kudos, Jimbo. If I had any rreal computer know-how, I'd put a scan of it up here or in the favorite cover thread going on in. It's such a great book to look at, etc. I was so lucky to get that book and it brings back incredible memories of late 1995 when I bought it.

 

Doug

 

Its not the actual bump that bothers me the most (although....), its the fact the serial # remained the same, indicating a reholder and nothing more.

[drbanner]

He owned the book raw for several years before subbing it to CGC, so he's probably intimately familiar with how the pages look.

[nik]

Even the serial # not changing doesnt bother me, but the actual resubmitting of a 9.6 FF1.

 

JHC, WTF would you not be satisfied with such a beautiful copy?

[Scheradon]

He owned the book raw for several years before subbing it to CGC, so he's probably intimately familiar with how the pages look.

 

Just going by this part of what you quoted from him on it:

 

I really think the pages have a shot to be off-white to white as they look better than off-white from the outside view, but I haven't brought it in

 

[PedigreeMan]

Even the serial # not changing doesnt bother me

 

It should bother you.

 

JTMF is correct in that it seems to indicate a non-traditional method of resubbing.

 

Which should also bring up the question of what else could be changed on the label through a non-traditional resub ...?

[Drummy]

NIkos brings up a good point...why resubmit a 9.6 FF #1 at all? I actually do think Doug was bugged by the ow designation, possibly because he legitimately felt the page quality was better (a likely scenario, especially for someone who might sell the book), or possibly because Doug is obsessed (in a good way, I suppose) with having the most perfect Marvel SA collection in the world. I doubt he'll ever be satisfied in this quest, but it's clearly an intense passion of his, and he wants the CGC labels to verify this to the world.

 

As far as CGC goes, my criticism stands. This book was graded a 9.6 originally, I think, and Doug had it reholdered because the old one was scratched up. Makes sense. But now we have a reholdering and a major PQ bump without a regrade. Seems quite clear it's preferential treatment (both of Doug and the book) and it just makes me mad that the "independent" grading company continues to be anything but. I left off being naive a long time ago, but I still get angry about fragrant bias (toward certain customers) and/or deception (calling a book's pages "white" when the OWL card says "ow").

 

Dan

[Aman619]

this copy was the third book ever officially graded by CGC. That oughtta count for something, although, lets face it, while it may ne "human" to have evolved grading skills etc in the five years since, the pages should stay the same, or at most be one level different on a second viewing. I would have left it alone. But, Im not Doug. He's ballsy thats for sure.

[PedigreeMan]

He's ballsy thats for sure.

 

Naw, ballsy would imply that there was some sort of risk involved with this "resub."

[Red Hook]

I would assume there is very little risk involved in an "inquiry" regarding an upgrade in PQ. Probably a pre-screening fee at most.

[PedigreeMan]

I would assume there is very little risk involved in an "inquiry" regarding an upgrade in PQ. Probably a pre-screening fee at most.

 

You would be assuming wrong.

 

Er, ah, that is ... I assume that you would be assuming wrong. Or would that be presume that you ... ah, screw it!

 

Nothing to see here, folks ... Eastasia has always been at war with Westasia ... the PQ on that FF has always been white ... ...

[Cloned-migration]

book graded 6/12/2006 from collecting society website

[The_Wing_Kong]

The question I think is did CGC change their standards. I'm not one who believes in any inside deals or anything. However being its literally one of the first books they graded, is it possible four years later they went off of say Overstreets standard and not being a rookie company decided on their own. I can only assume that a book like that got extra attention from the staff just being something special. I can only imagine almost everyone there would want to take a look before it goes back to its lucky owner. I can't think that with that said it would be an oversight.

[JiveTurkeyMoFo]

The question I think is did CGC change their standards.

 

They've changed their standards a hundred times since they've open, or they haven't changed them at all, depends on who you ask. Of course, since those standards are not published, we are all left to guess....

 

However, this is not about changing standards in my opinion. What is damning is the serial # issue, and here's why:

 

If the book was a standard resub, it would have been issued a new serial # upon regrading, hence, there would have been "before" and "after" records for a prospective buyer to evaluate (assuming they could track down the original bar code number). An astute buyer would be able to see the bump in page quality, and decide whether it was warranted or not.

 

Since the barcode remains the same, however, all evidence of this book ever having off-white pages is wiped clean from the CGC records and contained only to a couple of jpeg images and the collective memories of those of us who read threads like this.

 

Maybe CGC DID make a mistake with the page quality. Maybe it DOES warrant a bump in PQ, and maybe CGC is acknowledging that mistake by keeping the bar code number the same and not duplicating records that may "unfairly" tarnish the history of the book, that's all possible.

 

But Doug has an incredible history of resub bumps, better in fact, then any other CGC submitter that I know of: an X-Men # 1 Pacific Coast from 9.6 to 9.8, an FF # 18 from 9.6 to 9.8, a Daredevil # 1 from 9.4 to 9.6, and now this book. I'm sure there are others, these are just a handful that I'm aware of.

 

I don't begrudge Doug's right to play the game or the fact he seems to be pretty successful at it....I just don't like the game.

[awe4one]

Let me see if I have this correctly...

 

FF #1 submitted as one of the first CGC graded comics. Get a 9.6 OW pages...

 

Sometime after the new labels come out, the comic is resubmitted and gets a 9.6 OW pages...

 

Comic is posted on a website for sale. Price $500,000...

 

After being posted, the comic displayed is changed from a 9.6 OW to 9.6 White pages...

 

You know...I could maybe buy the notion of the page change if it happened upon the new label resubmit but not upon a second new label resubmit. If there was a question on page quality, I'd expect it would happen before posting it for sale on the website for the kinds of money being asked here. Did CGC/seller think no one would notice?

 

I have to wonder if CGC even cares about their reputation when matters like this pop up...

 

Jim

[The_Wing_Kong]

The question I think is did CGC change their standards.

 

They've changed their standards a hundred times since they've open, or they haven't changed them at all, depends on who you ask. Of course, since those standards are not published, we are all left to guess....

 

However, this is not about changing standards in my opinion. What is damning is the serial # issue, and here's why:

 

If the book was a standard resub, it would have been issued a new serial # upon regrading, hence, there would have been "before" and "after" records for a prospective buyer to evaluate (assuming they could track down the original bar code number). An astute buyer would be able to see the bump in page quality, and decide whether it was warranted or not.

 

Since the barcode remains the same, however, all evidence of this book ever having off-white pages is wiped clean from the CGC records and contained only to a couple of jpeg images and the collective memories of those of us who read threads like this.

 

Maybe CGC DID make a mistake with the page quality. Maybe it DOES warrant a bump in PQ, and maybe CGC is acknowledging that mistake by keeping the bar code number the same and not duplicating records that may "unfairly" tarnish the history of the book, that's all possible.

 

But Doug has an incredible history of resub bumps, better in fact, then any other CGC submitter that I know of: an X-Men # 1 Pacific Coast from 9.6 to 9.8, an FF # 18 from 9.6 to 9.8, a Daredevil # 1 from 9.4 to 9.6, and now this book. I'm sure there are others, these are just a handful that I'm aware of.

 

I don't begrudge Doug's right to play the game or the fact he seems to be pretty successful at it....I just don't like the game.

 

I have to say that is troubling now that you've brought it to my attention. I just think about guys like Steve Borock etc. and they seem like good honest guys. I know that in any industry the BSD's usually get better treatment then the common guys. I just would think someone would be like minded on the need for better integrity in the company. I guess if it is true that they don't play fair at least this board gives everyone a voice.

[PedigreeMan]

Since the barcode remains the same, however, all evidence of this book ever having off-white pages is wiped clean from the CGC records and contained only to a couple of jpeg images and the collective memories of those of us who read threads like this.

 

You're focusing too much on the what instead of the how here, JTMF.

 

[esquirecomics]

But Doug has an incredible history of resub bumps, better in fact, then any other CGC submitter that I know of: an X-Men # 1 Pacific Coast from 9.6 to 9.8, an FF # 18 from 9.6 to 9.8, a Daredevil # 1 from 9.4 to 9.6, and now this book. I'm sure there are others, these are just a handful that I'm aware of.

 

He is fulfilling exactly the type of business model CGC envisoned back in 1999. I've heard it on the tape recordings of the planning sessions. Resubs and "challenges" to CGC decisions were always to be part of the game. But that was said behind the scenes and only to a select group of of people. To the general public the CGC message was quite different. They were the community "policeman". To be sure, CGC has brought a great deal of benefit to our community. But as always, there never seems to be too great a difference between the angel and the devil. One follows the other, and sometimes plays both roles.

[topofthetotem]

But Doug has an incredible history of resub bumps, better in fact, then any other CGC submitter that I know of: an X-Men # 1 Pacific Coast from 9.6 to 9.8, an FF # 18 from 9.6 to 9.8, a Daredevil # 1 from 9.4 to 9.6, and now this book. I'm sure there are others, these are just a handful that I'm aware of.

 

He is fulfilling exactly the type of business model CGC envisoned back in 1999. I've heard it on the tape recordings of the planning sessions. Resubs and "challenges" to CGC decisions were always to be part of the game. But that was said behind the scenes and only to a select group of of people. To the general public the CGC message was quite different. They were the community "policeman". To be sure, CGC has brought a great deal of benefit to our community. But as always, there never seems to be too great a difference between the angel and the devil. One follows the other, and sometimes plays both roles.

Well said!

[Aman619]

But Doug has an incredible history of resub bumps, better in fact, then any other CGC submitter that I know of: an X-Men # 1 Pacific Coast from 9.6 to 9.8, an FF # 18 from 9.6 to 9.8, a Daredevil # 1 from 9.4 to 9.6, and now this book. I'm sure there are others, these are just a handful that I'm aware of.

 

He is fulfilling exactly the type of business model CGC envisoned back in 1999. I've heard it on the tape recordings of the planning sessions. Resubs and "challenges" to CGC decisions were always to be part of the game. But that was said behind the scenes and only to a select group of of people. To the general public the CGC message was quite different. They were the community "policeman". To be sure, CGC has brought a great deal of benefit to our community. But as always, there never seems to be too great a difference between the angel and the devil. One follows the other, and sometimes plays both roles.

 

good post, you debbil you!

[Timulty]

But Doug has an incredible history of resub bumps, better in fact, then any other CGC submitter that I know of: an X-Men # 1 Pacific Coast from 9.6 to 9.8, an FF # 18 from 9.6 to 9.8, a Daredevil # 1 from 9.4 to 9.6, and now this book. I'm sure there are others, these are just a handful that I'm aware of.

 

He is fulfilling exactly the type of business model CGC envisoned back in 1999. I've heard it on the tape recordings of the planning sessions. Resubs and "challenges" to CGC decisions were always to be part of the game. But that was said behind the scenes and only to a select group of of people. To the general public the CGC message was quite different. They were the community "policeman". To be sure, CGC has brought a great deal of benefit to our community. But as always, there never seems to be too great a difference between the angel and the devil. One follows the other, and sometimes plays both roles.

 

Here is a postulation. Has anyone compared type of service to the grades being received? I know, sounds like conspiracy theory. I would be mighty interested to see those results though.